Hammer002

try not to anticipate. Rather clear your mind and think about nothing but waiting to react to the “B” in beep when the timer goes off. —Steve Foster advice. Works very well.

same here, both barrels. Very good product

I drilled holes and used screws. Worked very well

NICE. I really do love watching your stuff on facebook. Thats an area I want to get to so bad. May have the wife convinced after showing some pics and video. Best of luck to you man. I cant do the Iron Sights at all, I get two plates in my vision unless I close one eye. Envy you guys that can, cause I think they can be faster in this game!

Being an unconscious performer is a RESULT of that developing and training the best techniques and processes that yield the best and most consistent results. An unconscious execution isn't necessarily a process or technique in itself as much as it is the result you mention. Unless its that format of thinking that gets you there...lol. I think we agree, just in different wordings. Just know the execution, in whatever form is not the technique nor process, its the result of these things. Understanding things at a scientific level is fine in application to evaluating and forming technique and process and evaluating the execution is how to determine if its fruitful. Analyzing the linguistic description of how the mind understands the performance from a proper language use is a fine line that's easily confused and will vary from person to person within their personal interpretations of the English language or how they appeal to reference, inference, or metaphor. So lets say this. I believe we agree. Meaning I agree what you think is what works for you and you should embrace it. My caution would be imposing the same type of thinking on others. Such as in advice mode with a friend, or as a coach, or even as innocent as a public shooting forum thread. Challenging someone to distrust their understanding of their execution with differences in language use or specific scientific detail may cause them to distrust their subconscious taking over the job of execution. Good execution simply CAN NOT occur in a thinking/evaluating state of mind. It CAN'T. You must allow your body to do what you have trained it to do in practice. (For God's sake don't confuse this with muscle memory, because there is NO SUCH THING, nor the weird electrical impulse thingy). We train our brains in practice what to do to achieve a goal we desire. We perform, evaluate the performance, and attempt to hone techniques. We are never able to hone the execution. The execution is a result. Through practice, we train our brain how to tell the body to do many things. Practicing some of them in small detail. But in the end, we cannot cognitively control all the movements going on in our body. At some point, for it all to work together, we have to turn it over to the brain to operate everything we have independently trained it to do, from trigger pull, to hip movement, to sight alignment, all at the same time. This requires turning off the analytical/thinking part of the brain to operate on its own, or subconsciously. This requires trust. Most of this trust comes from repetition or having done whats being asked in the same environment. The brain has seen us do something correctly 100s of times, it knows how to execute that. If we apply stress, always in the form of outcome, that's our thinking part trying to control execution. That part of the brain SUCKS at execution. So we have to build the trust in practice, repetition, AND understanding. If you tell someone they are not doing what they think they are doing, and they value your opinion, you might have just wrecked their ability to trust allowing the subconscious state to take over. I think that's what I'm getting at with you, not that you are in any way wrong, or that we disagree. I think you will rise above needing such specifics if you stay with the game. its like the line in the Matrix, "Neo, I'm telling you when you are ready, you wont have to. [dodge bullets]" Thanks for the discussion. Love different perspectives. Ben Edit - awe hell!! I know who you are!! Like Steve says, Steel Challenge is a small world! The best to you!

Ok, fair enough. Getting into science always requires a grain of salt though. You make an extremely good point in saying you're not sure people are doing what they think they are doing. And you go on to quote a bunch of science I too once educated myself about for the exact purpose of learning to shoot faster. So what I will say further is NOT in disagreement with you. Your point is valid and your science fact. So let's move the conversation to what's actually important. You said you are undecided on things. Many are about many things. I think we all are, at least at some point in time. Let's define first, and hopefully agree on, what's actually important: Understanding what you are doing, or your ability to do it? We walk around all day without a scientific understanding of how we are doing it. We do several things on a subconscious level. Funny enough, some things, like maybe walking, if we try to think about how to do it while doing it we might trip and fall! Somewhere in here I would repeat what I have had coaches, senseis, and teachers say, "KISS, Keep it simply stupid." Obviously we aren't stupid, but the idea is applying to much cognitive thought to something physical requiring the body to do many things at the same time. This is best accomplished at a subconscious level. So what is important is ability to execute above all. So if the ability to execute is most important, is that all we care about? Obviously not, because we have to train ourselves, body and mind, to execute what we desire ourselves to accomplish. Examining scientific fact is interesting. And it can assist in learning. But we have to get past that to accomplish execution. If we are thinking about how the eye works, or how the body interprets vision, we are thinking too much. If that information leads us to a way to train, great. Unfortunately, my opinion came to be this particular knowledge did not. If anything it attempted to undermine what I thought I was doing. Therefore it became a distraction of sort. So you would be correct by implying we may not actually scientifically doing what we are saying we are doing. But what's important, the ability to execute, right? Surely you see where I might be going with this. So, if as your coach, I tell you to line up on Five to Go and think about being submerged in a vat of thick oil while you move fluidly from plates 1 to 4 and imagine pushing and pulling the gun through the oil smoothly without ratcheting or stopping and starting so the gun simply cuts and even, fluid wake through the oil that may seem slower than you are used to. You do as I ask. I ask you how it felt. You say, slower. I show you the timer and its .25 a second faster than you have ever shot the stage before. You shockingly repeat, it felt slower. Lets admit, this is an example. Not everyone thinks the same and not every form of thought or motivation works for everyone. Had this not worked, we would move on to another approach. But hopefully for the sake of conversation, we can accept this example to make a point. The point being would it have worked better had I overloaded the mind with what I want your shoulders to be doing, your arm muscles to be doing, your hands to be doing, your trigger finger to be doing, your wrist position, where your eyes should be and where they should be going when, what your knees should be doing, your legs, your head, etc.? Maybe, but I doubt it. The idea is to enter a method of thinking that supports your execution, no matter what it is. If you get into reading mental approach books they get into affirmation statements or mental ques or even physical gestures that remind the brain of a time when doing what you want to do well. At one point in time when I started a flight I would say to myself, "I love white steel plates." twice to myself, then align on the cone. During my preshot routine at one point I would tell myself "I love pink and white unicorns." It was silly, and the silliness relaxed me. But unicorns had nothing to do with my execution. Nor does knowing words like saccades or flutter or understanding mental visual fill ins. Nothing wrong with knowing that information and I'm not shading it in any way, but I would recommend stopping your evaluation at questioning what you are doing. That's when you enter the area of Beavis and Butthead forgetting how to pee cause they thought about it! LOL, if you don't get that reference, the same as above such as walking. If you really want to experiment with it, try descending a staircase at a quick pace and halfway down try to think about even left, right, left, right! Or worse, what your legs are doing. Careful with that experiment, but I think I've made my point. Its ok to be thinking about something, as long as its working for you. If its a distraction to learn that its not accurate, likely you have moved up a level and need a new thing to think about. I moved on from loving white plates and unicorns when I learned to literally think about nothing but the "B" in the Beeeeeep of the timer. The next hope is to learn to actually think about nothing at all - complete unconscious execution. We have all been there, "in the zone," but to call upon it or do it every time, even under stress, is a feat within itself. And it simply isn't achieved by thinking about what we are doing in a scientific way. Do what works for you and don't second guess yourself, that's the absolute worse thing to do. Even if you suspect something is "wrong" or "not the way," accept that is the way you are doing it today, and know you will move on from it. If you question your literal understanding of things, you will learn to distrust yourself, making achieving unconscious execution more difficult. Learn to trust yourself and your understanding of things to be valid, because at some point you will have to let the unconscious part take over. If I haven't mentioned it before, the best information on the planet about mental approach is actually in a book, "The Inner Game of Tennis" by Timothy Gallway. For reference, there is only ONE short chapter actually about tennis!! lol. There are others and many, but this one, in my opinion, is absolute must read for high level competition. I have repeated some of the ideas here in the form of my understanding. I've read this book three times and often listen to the audio form when I drive or go to bed. The idea of the OP, analyzing what we are actually doing is right up the mental approach alley and well discussed in this book. Cannot recommend it enough. Best of luck!

Help me understand. What facts did I misrepresent and what claims did I falsely make, please? My attempt was at reality for the benefit of upcoming shooters attempting to learn. You MUST be able to accept and admit how much the game has changed, outdating the material in your book (of which I DID read, twice early in my learning process) and that some of which was not widely accepted in the first place. Honestly, it might be time for another one. I liked your style and approach, however some of the information was arguable that you claimed to be fact or opinions on execution not widely accepted at the time, nor certainly now. I am in no position wanting to argue, you are free to write or say whatever you wish, the same as I. Like you said you not minding my disagreeing with you, I do not mind being corrected where I am wrong, even challenging a differing opinion. I am big enough to accept rightful correction AND learn from it. i have no disrespect for you. I own your book in both soft cover and Kindle and I own all eight Steel Challenge banners. I am well read in what you have written both in the book and here. I am well practiced with your banners, to the extent they were useful. I am also IN the community and know your impact within it. So if you should be able to endure, please straighten my facts and counter my claims. I am also big enough to admit when I'm wrong, if adequately shown to be.

ok. Let’s get next level here. On #2. I’m gonna put this out there and you’re either going to be able to grasp it, or not. People will likely debate what I’m about to say, but they would be wrong. Modern steel challenge transitions, at the top level, are NOT done this way. This is how we are taught to do Gun transitions. It’s slow. It’s called ticking, or ratcheting, or chasing, or whatever. That method causes stopping and starting of the gun. Which is slow. And actually harder. The top shooters are using a method I personally call fluid motion. The eyes are staying with the gun, on sight. If irons, never leaving the front sight. If dot, never leaving the dot. Some minds just started to blow reading that. But it’s the truth. Moving the gun fluidly will feel slower, but produce faster, more reliable or repeatable times. Warning, this technique is NOT easy to learn. Not because it’s hard, but because it’s a change from the conventional. Either believe me, or don’t. Either way, this is how the top shooters are shooting. on #4, just note, it’s not always off the stop plate. Smoke = stop plate. Speed option might be plate 2. Pendulum might be plate 2 or 3 or stop depending on you. Roundabout and left showdown might be plate 3 or stop. 5 to go might be plate 4, some suggest stop plate, but I would advise against that. Accelerator might be plate 3, or the stop. Part of this technique is your comfortability factor. You will come to know these things change with your skill improvement. And that’s ok. Don’t try to think of things as being set in stone. I’ve shot with literally the best in the sport, and they do different things that work for them. I shot with Chris Barrett at area 5. Among several things, he shot pendulum right to left. Told me I should try it sometime. He was sub 2’s. I tried it in next practice. Wasn’t for me! Lol. Might be later. But not right now. Do what works for you as long as you are progressing.

Ok, for reference, I am a GM in RFRO, PCCO, and RFPO, and a former scholastic team coach. I don't say that to toot any horn, but for knowledge reference because I would really like to see you get your son on the right direction. I started with a 15-22, and made GM with it with a cheap Bushnell TRS-25. The best thing about these rifles is, if you don't mess with them, they run near 100 percent. If you want by and shoot, this is definitely the way to go. Allchin makes a comp specifically for it so the timer picks up the shots correctly. This is a must. It will run most AR15 triggers, I had very good luck with a Geisslle. I ran a CMORE on mine at its peak. Maybe a Tandemcross extractor, but NOTHING ELSE. I have come to the opinion through extensive experience with others, these guns, likely due to being plastic, do not like being taken apart. Just shoot it and shoot it and shoot it. LOVED mine. Eventually had to go lighter. Whatever you do, DO NOT go Volquartsen barrel. I have NEVER seen one run the same after someone installing one, even if they go back to the original barrel. Hence, my opinion on the guns not being liked being taken apart. Being that you have a 10/22 barrel, you have a good start if you are familiar with putting them together. They are quite simple. First, you will want the Blackhawk axiom stock. This stock has taken the sport by storm due to its great economics, price and incredible light weight. As far as receiver and bolt, you could go with a stock one, just polish the bolt for reliability. Or go with something like Tandemkross. All my insides are KIDD and they are super smooth. The stock trigger is rough. I love my KIDD. Its hands down the lightest and best reset that exists. There are other companies with reputable products. Some you can send an existing trigger assembly and they will do a trigger job. I love the KIDD stuff. A stock 10/22 will not make him happy. They simply are not competition reliable, and very rough to shoot as far as trigger, bolt, etc. There are some other choices out there, but these two are by far and large the best. If you want to go out of the box higher end, check out Magnum research's Switchbolt. Maybe just the upper for the axiom. Up to you. The orange one is a wilandusa barrel. Lightest made. Whole rifle is super light. Forget the weight, but its lower than pic below, that one is with the Tacsol barrel A while back with the 15-22

It was just a cute way of saying detail is enhanced. You are putting a ton more technical/engineering type thinking on it that I. I would say the plates are definitely enhanced.

wow. That’s a lot. Well, I can say my first impression was a feels like I could see around the plates. I dunno how to explain it. There’s nothing like them. I don’t recall seeing much background when I shoot.

Sorry everyone. I get bored and my sense of humor is different than everyone else’s. What I think is funny others don’t usually appreciate. I’ll go back to my corner.

hey mark. Sorry man. I’ll be good.

it’s amazing the direction you fuddy duddies will take something to stroke your own egos. I mean, that’s why every time I check in here when I’m bored it’s the exact same names arguing the exact same things calling each other the exact same names, right? How about we just make it easy......I’ll say.....WHITE! Who’s gonna be the fastest to rush in and say black?? You chucky? Don’t let someone with a lower post count beat ya!

you the man chuck. So he told you nothing about uspsa partnering with practiscore to keep track of match dues per club, huh. Well it must not be true then. I’m glad

ah, you guys are right. I don’t know anything. Carry on

like two years ago. When they started coming down on paying all the dues. Not a complete takeover, but they have merged and encompassed by USPSA. however you wanna say it.

You are right, except my consideration was due to USPSA taking over practiscore. That was my could reference. If the payment was made over practiscore, USPSA is involved, somewhat

There just seems like there's so much more to this. First, as a company/entity, you can explain the charge situation to a requesting bank. I have a feeling if it was just taken, no one responded to the inquiry. So the club has a treasurer problem. Or needs one. lol. Next, as competitors, we reap what we sew. So if this happens, its a small world, everyone gonna know about it and each match director will decide how they want to handle it for their matches. Yes, the USPSA could be involved, but its not likely they will want to be involved in the transaction responsibility between a club or match director and his customers. The USPSA's involvement is to get paid their fees, not involve themselves with civil business between other people. There could be an interesting interaction if using practiscore and stripe. There are new things with the "storefront" addition I just don't know yet. Sometimes, as a match director, in the theme of customer service, you look over some of these things from time to time. The variance in competitor personality is immense. If it became a repeat issue, I'm sure there are measures that could be taken. In this case, I am still convinced someone simply did not respond to the inquiry, or have contact information for the bank properly set. But that's an educated guess. I can tell you this though, a lot of you would have a tough time being a match director, stuff like this, better or worse is constant. Cant flip out over some of it.

RO buys the ice cream.

You are WAY overthinking it. And no it doesn't affect it. And no RO should EVER be that picky. Read my post on the first plate shooting, and it will make more sense, but anyone who knows Steel Challenge 101 isn't even directly aiming perfectly at any "aim point." They are using peripheral at best because they leave their eyes on the first plate and move the gun to the aim point semi-blindly. On it is good. And any RO requiring more needs a discussion from the match director. WAY overthinking it. If they aren't using anything at all, then that could probably be fixed. But outside of that, you got other things to concern yourself with

Well, hes been doing it a while and kinda has it figured out. Thinking he pretty generous sending the frames. The lens is the expensive part. Let me know how that suggestion works out for ya.

Well, I'm coming in late to this thread, but I can certainly help. 1. The grip is something many struggle with. Most all struggle with grip pressure. Especially throughout the entire time shooting. The goal is to first have a grip that is naturally presenting the gun. If all things equal, once you establish natural point of aim, you should be able to bring the gun up with your eyes closed on target. Stance affects this as well, so get that worked out. And for the sake of conversation, lets keep in mind this Natural Point of Aim idea. 2. Sights - ok, you are doing what most do here. The advice given above is solid, you need to be looking at the first plate. "Looking." Staring is the perfect word use for what many do when first learning this technique. It seems like cutting hairs, but its worth pointing out there is a huge difference. Especially with irons. So the difference between the dot, and irons, at least traditionally, is with a dot, you look at the target, allowing the dot to superimpose itself on the target. Top shooters are doing something a little different, be we wont get into that here except to say if you dig deep into this topic, you may find variance. For our conversation, lets keep it simple. With irons, there is an additional step your mind and eye must take if you are "staring" at the target. This also comes up in transition discussion. If you are staring intently at the target and bring the gun up into view, your eyes and mind must make a transition from the target to the front sight to aim. I will also point out, this initial "staring" will make you prone to wanting to return vision to the target after shooting, or worse because the brain likes short cuts, during the shot. This usually results in no ding. So, to keep it as simple as possible, you want to develop the difference between staring, or what I call detailed vision, to just looking. I equate this to making your entire field of view the feeling of your peripheral vision, where you see, but don't necessarily focus. So, good advice for the first plate is aim small, miss small. If there is a mark, spec, or previous shot on the plate, we are aiming for that, not the whole plate. Or, to put it another way, we are aiming for the center of the plate. The center. But we aren't staring at the center, we are acknowledging where it is by looking. The difference is when looking, we focus on the front sight or dot when it comes into view. Rather than staring at the target, where there will be more of an effort to break that stare and move to the front sight. Just let it be. 3. Ok, well, there are other things that need to be discussed here. 3a - We established Natural Point of Aim above as being in a position that fits YOU, allowing for you to draw or come from low ready naturally, even with eyes closed, to the target. This is something that should be practiced in dry fire. But that is for dry fire, I'll get to that later. What's very important to point out here - is natural point of aim IS NOT established on the first plate. Yeah, I know, it just got complicated. No, not really, you will like what I'm gonna tell you. 3b - So, this is pretty much Steel Challenge 101. That is to say, some of the very first things to be formally learned specifically about shooting Steel Challenge or RImfire Challenge. You have to pay attention to several things when you come into the box. The first of which is your mental focus. Another conversation. The next of which is your preshooting routine. Another conversation. The next of which is where you are positioning yourself IN the box. For example, front right on Roundabout and Showdown left box puts plates 1 and 2 very close together, or the rear center of the box on Smoke and Hope, giving you a wider field of view to better make wide transitions. Not gonna go into all of them, but just making a point to find it. Then we are establishing Natural Point of Aim. And its NOT on plate one. Max Michel advises it to be, because he says half of his time on the clock is on the draw from the holster. However, we are not Max Michel. He shoots the plate patterns easily and is working on what makes him faster, considering tenths of seconds. Most of the people learning what we are discussing here are not that level. So natural point of aim is established on the most important shot of the stage. Or the most challenging. Or the hardest. However you want to look at it, I will call it the most important because that can encompass the entire stage. Lets start easy with Smoke and Hope. Natural Point of Aim must be established on the stop plate. But we aren't shooting that plate first, so we need another term. Indexing. We establish natural point of aim on the stop plate. This is with the gun, physically pointing at the stop plate, whether it be a pistol or rifle. All should feel right here. Everything in alignment as though that plate was 100 yards away and the only target being shot. Once that is established, we rotate with the hips and knees. NOT the shoulders! At the waist and with the knees. l like a turret on a tank. This is another deep discussion, but suffice it to say you will quickly learn two things that affect what we are discussing here - you want to be more upright so you can rotate side to side without an up and down arc. And foot position. Again, keeping it easy discussing Smoke and Hope, the left toes should be pointing toward the edge of the left side of the left plate, and the right toes should be pointing toward the edge of the right side of the right plate. This supports rotation. Rotation is important, because we rotate to our Index. Our index is the first plate. So, establish natural point of aim on the stop plate, then slowly, physically rotate with the run pointed until we have a sight picture on our first plate. Lets say we shoot plate one on smoke and hope. Natural point of aim on stop plate, rotate at hips and knees without altering upper body, to establish our index on plate one. Establish sight picture. Leaving eyes, head, body, knees, etc, all but arms in position as we lower the gun to the low ready cone. No, its not going to be perfectly aimed at the cone. It doesn't have to be, just close. If an RO gives you a hard time about this, make sure you are getting close. If something is said, which is extremely rare, but people like to discuss it when learning this technique, simply restart your preshot routine and make yourself ready to shoot again. So to recap, physically establish point of aim on the important plate. Stop on Smoke, plate 3 on Accelerator, plate 2 on Speed Option, plate 4 on Five To Go, etc. Rotate using waist and knees to index on first plate to be shot. There are many other things to be considered, but this is as basic as it gets for this discussion. 4. I'm an honest, straightforward person, and I tell it like it is, or at least how I know it to be. So the next part might generate some discontentment, especially from one of the active members here. Ok, here goes - Dry fire IS NOT the way to learn Steel Challenge. I'm sorry. Its just not. I bought the banners. I read the book. Ken's heart and mind are in the right place, and will definitely help some entry level shooters getting up to speed on some of the understanding. So, hear me out. Some things are best learned some ways, and you will learn some ways are not so great on the back side. A good example is people who practice shooting the first plate only. This is NOT good practice. You may improve your first shot time, however you are creating a mental rut that will affect the rest of the pattern. If you insist on doing this, at least make the transition to at least plate two. And dry fire simply isn't going to get it. Dry fire is amazing for USPSA type shooting. Its also amazing for learning/perfecting the draw. The rest of Steel Challenge simply has to be learned with live fire. There is too much going on with speed shooting to be learned leaving out recoil and true gun manipulation. I'm sorry, you are not going to show significant improvement with dry fire. It actually hurt me. I am a practice guy. I practice A LOT. So when I got the banners, I hit the practice. I used them A LOT. What I learned is I learned how to get really fast in dry fire. I set par times, and beat them. I got better and beat faster par times. Come match day = train wreck. Now I had recoil in something I was trying to do quickly at best, let alone fast. Recoil is at least 50 percent of the game! If you want improvement, its gonna be on the range. There are ways to practice live fire, but that's another discussion and this is already getting lengthy. Just suffice to say, practice for Steel Challenge simply isn't in dry fire. Not that there is no benefit to a couple things done this way, but they are supported by live fire and another discussion. If you want to get better, your focus is on the range. While I'm stepping on toes, specifically Ken's, be careful with his book. He's a dedicated shooter, and probably means well, but many of the thing he wrote were not, lets say conventional wisdom even at the time written. Now that was probably part of the idea, to put something out there different, that's what most people attempting to make money on something do. Even Ken has to admit at a minimum since the book's release, the game has completely changed. A couple times. There is some good content in there. Mental attitude is a good example. His attitude toward the game can be emulated. But most of the physical things he describes, there are simply better ways. I'm not picking on Ken, hopefully he can even admit his perspective toward at least Outer Limits has changed, even though he was so animate about his way being the only way when he wrote the book. I hope so, because not only did no one do it that way when he wrote it, as I think I remember he admitted, he was completely backwards wrong at the time. I think he could admit that, cause I understand he doesn't shoot it that way anymore. Ken means well, but like he said in his book, he hasn't won anything. He hasn't since then. He isn't one of the influences of the sport. There are better teachers out there. Anyway, look at recent teachings from the actual top players. Max Michel, KC Eusebio, BJ Norris, etc. Some of them have made some good videos. The issue is most are entry level and you wont find many videos of them actually competing. At least nothing that shows their physical shooting, just the plates. They are the pros, and they keep their secrets close to the chest, or only available for a fee. If you want to learn Steel Challenge. Look at the videos that are out there. Read Ken's book. A better place is to look into Steve Foster. He's the best. He just recently shot the fastest time ever in history for all eight stages, beating Chris Barrett and Grant Kunkel's recent records. Look for videos of Kolby Pavlock. These are the fast guys in the game. If you are coming from a holster, the pros are the source. That's just not where the game has gone. The top fuel racers are using rimfire. I hope I have helped someone with something. There is so much to learn about this simple sport. It becomes dead simple at such a complicated level. I love to pass on what I have learned to those wanting to improve. These forums are just a bit difficult, because we aren't shooting. Its all text. Anyone can come in here and say this that or the other. Debate, argue, whatever. But if we were on the range, I would easily have your attention over anyone else that I have seen in here. So that's to say, I'm willing to put anything out there or pass on anything I have been taught or learned. But ignorant people acting aggressively ignorant can become taxing. Check out the Steel Target Paint Podcast. So much information there. Steve Foster is one of the strongest ambassadors of the sport. Seek out that level of improvement.

That's awesome. Brian and his team are amazing to deal with. I don't know which ones you got coming, but a couple things to consider - The more the lens is curved, the more it may take some getting used to if you have a script. I usually just put them on when I drive to the match. They will tell you this, but whichever you pick, they will ask you to mark where your pupils are with a permanent marker. Though this can be done alone or with another person, I would highly suggest having an eye doctor or the person who fits glasses do this. I have the gauge and like them very much. The velocity are very nice too. Get what you like. As said above, the frames wont have the actual HD lens, but when you get them, you will love them.

I do the same thing. I hold it out in front of me kinda in my peripheral where I am able to watch the shooter, gun, plates, and timer simultaneously. I see too many USPSA only shooting ROs hold the timer behind people's heads or other things not allowing the timer to get shots. We are only so awesome on some days. Don't be beggin for gremlins!