PCC Power Factor

[BlackBuzzard]

23 minutes ago, Sarge said:

That might fly at a local but it’s called cheating where there is a chrono involved at level II and up. So technically it’s cheating period.

 

where in rulebook is it a violation to have two sets of ammo, both making power factor, and one set  extra hot?

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, BlackBuzzard said:

 

where in rulebook is it a violation to have two sets of ammo, both making power factor, and one set  extra hot?

Sadly it’s not in there. I edited my post. Carry on with special ammo as you feel necessary.

[MikieM]

To me, the softer the better. Less powder means less recoil. Less recoil means less dot movement. Less dot movement means...well, you get the picture.

[dmshozer1]

10 hours ago, Les Snyder said:

dmshozer1.... L9x25 uses, and I used 95 grain bullets from Precision Delta...mine were loaded to 1.075 or so OAL...I used 5.2 of WSF

 

to the best of my memory for the couple of matches I shot them, poppers (without hinges) and some set to fall forward were not a problem...I was frustrated by the fact that I was trying to use two different barrels... one had been bulged with a couple of stuck bullets that chronographed about 150fps slower than the other barrel... unfortunately the bulged barrel shoots exceptionally well and has a slightly more forgiving leade area, and is the one I prefer to use.. so back to the 135's

 

I just stuck the mag well adapter and 7.5" 9mm upper on the SBR, so will give a real short PCC a run next month...

Got it,

At 4grs. they were a great steel challenge load. When I got up to 5 grs they felt like my normal 125 gr loads.

Might be the MBX buffer system I run but I tried other set ups too.

Fun to experiment.

[Blurryvisions]

10 hours ago, 1911luvr said:

 

I’ve been shooting these 100 grain projectiles for well over a year in Steel Challenge. I ream my own chambers in my PCC’s and my pistols, so they work just fine. However, my mouse fart loads are great for steel challenge, but too slow cycling for anything else, plus at 100pf they don’t meet minimum power factor for USPSA.




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That is awesome! Who make the bullet? . I did some 95 gr mg but didn’t have good luck with them. 

[HoMiE]

10 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

 

where in rulebook is it a violation to have two sets of ammo, both making power factor, and one set  extra hot?

Appendix C2 #33, I guess if you are upfront about it and provide both sets for testing nothing stopping you from shooting.  However if you don’t disclose it it can look like grounds for unsportsman like conduct. 

[ChuckS]

Last time I talked to Max he said that the sponsor ammo that he was getting was clocking about 160 PF in his rifle. He said he like how the dot came back quickly.

[mahamoti]

21 hours ago, BlackBuzzard said:

 

Am I the only one that keeps a small stash of higher than normal PF ammo (150+) in range bag, for those stages where previous production shooters failed to down troublesome steel?

 

We've all see this before.   

 

Shoot, steel doesn't fall, maybe calibrate?, adjust and reshoot, same outcome.    

 

Why not just hit it extra hard  when you're up?

 

 

 

 

Any steel that looks "troublesome" I just put two on.  Not like that's hard to do with a PCC, and I'm certainly not running out of ammo with my mags.

[MemphisMechanic]

6 hours ago, MikieM said:

To me, the softer the better. Less powder means less recoil. Less recoil means less dot movement. Less dot movement means...well, you get the picture.

 

True. Until you factor in the compensator. Assuming you’re running one that works, and is there to do more than just help the shot timers hear you.

[MikieM]

2 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

True. Until you factor in the compensator. Assuming you’re running one that works, and is there to do more than just help the shot timers hear you.

 

The comp (brake, in my case) was factored in when the loads were chronographed. 128-130 PF yields very little dot movement. More of a wobble than anything.

I personally believe that comps and brakes do little to control muzzle rise in our line of work, but that's a different topic from what we're discussing here. On my new gun the brake is there to bring the 14.5 inch barrel to a legal length and to (like you say) make more noise for the timer. The cool factor could be considered a third reason.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Interesting. My testing with and without the comp showed me a very different result. Contrary to internet lore, it helps. Quite noticeably.

 

(Running 140ish PF 125s over fast powder through a CMMG Guard franken-build.)

 

It could also be because the front end of my rifle is lighter than almost anyone’s: the turned-down barrel and 3oz hand guard put very little weight out front. That would theoretically make it much more responsive to a light tap out at the muzzle.

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[MikieM]

What I would like to see is a comprehensive test that would demonstrate once and for all that comps, or brakes, either worked, or didn't work for PCCs, and I'm not talking about some computer model thing either. I'm talking about a good old nuts and bolts mechanical device involving slow-mo photography, graphs, and other measuring devices.

Every bit of the evidence found on this forum, as far as I know, has been anecdotal. He said, she said. Also, when someone sinks a hundred bucks into a comp, or a hundred and fifty or so into a recoil system, there is built-in bias right there.

Since there are different variations on the theme, I believe testing might best be done on a 6 to 6 and 1/2 pound PCC with 125 PF ammo, and a 16 inch barrel. This seems to be a fairly typical set-up....

 

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by MikieM

[Steve RA]

The easy, simple way is to put some duct tape around it and see if it blows thru it.  If it doesn't after one wrap, you can assume the comp is for looks or to add necessary length.  If it does, just wrap around again and test, keep on until it doesn't blow thru.  Then we can start a new contest - who got the most wraps until it didn't blow thru the tape.

[MikieM]

...or we could wrap duct tape around them.

[stick]

Between 130 and 135 give me the most reliability cycling the gun.  I've run loads as low as 109PF and as high as 148PF.  What's more important than PF to me is..What the gun and dot does with the load.  By that I mean is the recoil back, up or sideways and does the dot jump or bounce better or worse with one load over another.  What works for me, doesn't necessarily mean it will work for you.  I run the same load in two guns and get 130pf in one and 121 in another.

[1911luvr]

That is awesome! Who make the bullet? . I did some 95 gr mg but didn’t have good luck with them. 

These ones are made by a local guy in my club here is SoCal. I don’t think he has a website, but I’ll check. How did you load the 95gr MG’s? I love them but they’re speedy!!


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[1911luvr]

The easy, simple way is to put some duct tape around it and see if it blows thru it.  If it doesn't after one wrap, you can assume the comp is for looks or to add necessary length.  If it does, just wrap around again and test, keep on until it doesn't blow thru.  Then we can start a new contest - who got the most wraps until it didn't blow thru the tape.

This sounds like a bunch of hot air to me! Lol


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[Steve RA]

Only if it works !!!   

[SufferInSilence]

I just chrono’d some Speer Gold Dot 124 through my Davinci 14”.  It was 172.91pf !! 

Winchester 115gr flat nose was 170.37pf. 

 

The same rounds in my 4.7” CO gun is 147.28 & 144.46pf. 

So I’m running hot either way but dang, what a difference that extra barrel does!! 
 

The 172pf was still manageable.  Makes me wonder why they didn’t just throw maj/min in with PCC..?