Build A Winning PCC.....

[IntenseImage]

 
Well, let me ask you. Can you show any proof that they do work? I can't find any at all. And by proof I mean actual scientific proof. Not anecdotal. We just can't take your word for it.
As a matter of fact a consensus on this forum, regarding comps on PCCs, indicate that they do little more that add weight to the muzzle.
 
And, the part about me wrapping my hand around the comp on your gun and you pulling the trigger is shameful. 

How about providing scientific proof they don't work and not just anecdotal

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[MikieM]

I wish I could, but I can't.  

You would think that out of all the compensator manufacturers, of which there are many, one of them would offer up something. I can find no one that has. 

I have shot PCCs with and without comps and can find no discernible difference. I suppose you do so that's what keeps them in business. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by MikieM

[jtrump]

With my loads I blow directly through 3 layers of tape wrapped around the comp,  in my mind that tells me gas is venting and it should make the comp work even if it is just "SLIGHTLY", but does it work as well as a comp with 24g or 44g of powder behind it of course not.

[MikieM]

Then there's hope for the few that do believe. Even if it's ever so slight.

I wouldn't exactly call three layers of tape scientific, would you?

[IntenseImage]

I'll be the first to admit the NERD we have on one of the PCCs doesn't do jack shit. But the taccom one we have on another does give a slight downward push to the muzzle. I think a lot has to do with the load in use too

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[Flatland Shooter]

19 minutes ago, IntenseImage said:

................   But the taccom one we have on another does give a slight downward push to the muzzle. I think a lot has to do with the load in use too

 

So what load do you use with the Taccom comp?

 

Thanks.

[IntenseImage]

 
So what load do you use with the Taccom comp?
 
Thanks.

WSF ... Depending on the gun/setup it's anywhere from a 137 PF up to the 150s

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[Bigsampson]

4 hours ago, MikieM said:

You are ridiculous.

"Well, let me ask you. Can you show any proof that they do work?"

Do you have any that they don't work?  All you offer is that you shot a few and could not tell the difference. Yea, that is certainly scientific.  About as scientific as your list.

 

"And, the part about me wrapping my hand around the comp on your gun and you pulling the trigger is shameful. "

Why do you say that if there isn't any appreciable downward pressure?  Again with silliness.  Somebody gives you a way to determine if there is appreciable downward force generated and you get silly.  Do it on your own gun.  Nobody offered for you to stand in front of it.  Just take your hand and put it over the ports.  If it isn't effective, you would not have a worry in the world.

 

So done with this post.  The PCC area is for constructive discussion, not  pompous grandstanding on a specific list or saying particular items in people's build list is a waste of time.

 

[GrumpyOne]

If you guys want this thread to stay open, I would suggest that caution be used when posting. Some of these posts are coming close (if they haven't already) to violating forum guidelines.

[MikieM]

Pomposity aside, I still maintain the parts outlined in post #1 will provide the new builder with an accurate, and soft shooting carbine. 

[dmshozer1]

Old trick but it works,

Hold the muzzle about 1 to 2inches away from a paper uspsa target.

Fire a round.

If the target has a lot of stipeling and a big hole, the comp is not working very well.

Most if not all of the gas is coming out the front of the comp and not out of the vents.

If after shooting, there is a nice round hole and almost no stipeling the comp is working.

The gas is coming out the vents, not out of the front.

It works.

[dmshozer1]

Just now, dmshozer1 said:

Old trick but it works,

Hold the muzzle about 1 to 2inches away from a paper uspsa target.

Fire a round.

If the target has a lot of stipeling and a big hole, the comp is not working very well.

Most if not all of the gas is coming out the front of the comp and not out of the vents.

If after shooting, there is a nice round hole and almost no stipeling the comp is working.

The gas is coming out the vents, not out of the front.

It works.

To see the difference,

Do the same test with a .223 with any decent comp on it

[MikieM]

2 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

To see the difference,

Do the same test with a .223 with any decent comp on it

 

Yes. I remember doing that with an Open gun. 

Edited April 5, 2018 by MikieM

[caspian guy]

I suppose you could always wrap a couple layers of masking tape around the ports and see if the gas shreds it.  Then keep adding additional wraps of tape till it doesn't.  Then do the same  with a .223 comp, or even an open pistol' s comp if you wanted some way to compare how much gas you were getting.  Not perfect but would give some basis for for comparison.

Edited April 5, 2018 by caspian guy

[MikieM]

Both comps would have to be the same configuration. My guess would be the .223/5.56 would need more tape.

 

You know what I like about your response? It was constructive. Not some out-of-hand put down like some of the others.

I appreciate it. Thanks.

[Flatland Shooter]

4 hours ago, IntenseImage said:

WSF ... Depending on the gun/setup it's anywhere from a 137 PF up to the 150s
 

 I may need to re-think the effectiveness of comps on 9mm PCC.

 

Late season testing with the PCC I use in USPSA matches showed a marked decrease in dot movement when using the same bullet but increasing the power factor.  For 2017 I shot 134 PF loads but for 2018 I'm increasing my loads to around 145 PF.    I never really understood why I got the improvement.    I only knew what I read and that was some shooters had better luck with somewhat hotter loads.

 

I've been in the camp that felt a comp on a 9mm PCC had two benefits.  #1 it directed more noise back to the timer and #2 they look good.    My comp is an inexpensive Miculek look-a-like but has an additional two small holes on top of the comp.  It may be possible that with hotter loads the comp is doing some good at reducing dot movement.

 

In the near future I plan on pulling the comp and putting on a thread protector and test to see what happens.  Increased dot movement or flat out nothing?  

 

I'll let you know what I discover.

[MikieM]

Flats, what is the weight of your bolt and buffer? The reason I ask is Eric, I believe it was, was running a bolt/buffer combo that was very light and had experienced a reduction in velocity of the load he was using. Evidently the bolt/buffer was opening too soon in the cycle allowing gas to escape to the rear.

Is this possible?

 

It's hard for me to understand how an increase in PF wouldn't translate into an increase in muzzle rise, as well as felt recoil.

[Patrick Scott]

7 hours ago, MikieM said:

Flats, what is the weight of your bolt and buffer? The reason I ask is Eric, I believe it was, was running a bolt/buffer combo that was very light and had experienced a reduction in velocity of the load he was using. Evidently the bolt/buffer was opening too soon in the cycle allowing gas to escape to the rear.

Is this possible?

 

It's hard for me to understand how an increase in PF wouldn't translate into an increase in muzzle rise, as well as felt recoil.

I can tell you that when I tested light weight stuff my normal single and low two digit SDs went bonkers and the gun got dirtier faster. 

[Flatland Shooter]

8 hours ago, MikieM said:

Flats, what is the weight of your bolt and buffer? The reason I ask is Eric, I believe it was, was running a bolt/buffer combo that was very light and had experienced a reduction in velocity of the load he was using. Evidently the bolt/buffer was opening too soon in the cycle allowing gas to escape to the rear.

Is this possible?

 

It's hard for me to understand how an increase in PF wouldn't translate into an increase in muzzle rise, as well as felt recoil.

 

The bolt is 14.8 ounces and the bolt is 5.2 ounces.  It has a standard M-4 buffer spring.  I played with different combinations including a 12.1 ounce bolt and several buffer weights.  The 14.8 + 5.2 gave me the best results on dot movement.  The increased PF did increase felt recoil slightly but the dot barely moves.

 

I see no indication that the bolt is opening early.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Flatland Shooter

[MikieM]

Thanks. I appreciate the input.

[biscuit]

Mike thank you taking time to post your thoughts on a PCC build. I'm starting to build one and I like to read what others have experienced.  I do research on what shooters who use their PCC's say is good to have and I make up my own mind.  But if guys like you don't lay it out there those of us who are new to the PCC world will wonder in the desert.

[MikieM]

14 minutes ago, biscuit said:

Mike thank you taking time to post your thoughts on a PCC build. I'm starting to build one and I like to read what others have experienced.  I do research on what shooters who use their PCC's say is good to have and I make up my own mind.  But if guys like you don't lay it out there those of us who are new to the PCC world will wonder in the desert.

 

buscuit, you made my day. Thanks.

What I outlined was not the only way to put together a new PCC, nor was it the most expensive, nor the least expensive, but it works. I've moved up in class with it and so can others.

[biscuit]

Oh I get what you were doing and it is appreciated. I will tell this makes me pause in posting anything like your post. Thanks Mike.

[MikieM]

If I had it to do over again, I'd pause too. 

[Startingover]

I will be running factory 115g blazer brass ammo (93.7% of the time)

With a 16"barrel with a Fortis Brake.

I will be very curious to see how much it (the brake) is working 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Startingover