Flatland Shooter Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, crofrog said: What rule does that fall under? I don't shoot Production but I believe Appendix D4 #21 would apply. Its been years ago and it was shortly after the NROI had a discussion on external modifications that were not allowed and it included a dot in the magwell so the RO were watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofrog Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Flatland Shooter said: I don't shoot Production but I believe Appendix D4 #21 would apply. Its been years ago and it was shortly after the NROI had a discussion on external modifications that were not allowed and it included a dot in the magwell so the RO were watching. Well then I guess I need to scratch some paint off. As a newish B class shooter I've got to say the production rules are confusing. I guess I get to stipple my gun now as well. That makes me happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, crofrog said: What rule does that fall under? First off if it isn't specifically allowed in production it's not allowed. And on top of that there is a ruling on the uspsa site specifically saying its not allowed. I'll post the link if I can get the page to load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofrog Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Kraj said: First off if it isn't specifically allowed in production it's not allowed. And on top of that there is a ruling on the uspsa site specifically saying its not allowed. I'll post the link if I can get the page to load I think it's confusing they allow refinishing but it's fine I'd not worry about it. I don't really care that much just amazed that it's not allowed, when I can refinish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, crofrog said: I think it's confusing they allow refinishing but it's fine I'd not worry about it. I don't really care that much just amazed that it's not allowed, when I can refinish. Yeah it seems pretty small. I wouldn't care at all if it was allowed but it currently isn't. Cosmetic finishes revisited Created: Mar 24, 2011 Effective: Apr 23, 2014 Rule: Appendix D4 Item Applies to: Pistol Ruling Authority: DNROI Status: Released Question: Can I paint a dot or arrow inside the magwell of my production handgun for a reference point and paint an arrow or stripes on my slide to help with alignment? Ruling: No, a competitor may not paint dots, stripes or anything to help them reload or align sights quicker, cosmetic finishes only as per 21.2a "this clause is now interpreted to specifically allow refinishing the frame as well as the slide, subject to the existing constraints on refinishing (cosmetic only, no competitive advantage). Item 22 also goes on to say that the absence of an item in the list of prohibited modifications may not be construed to mean a modification is allowed. A modification is only allowed in Production Division if there is a rules clause or interpretation which specifically declares that it is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Kraj said: No, a competitor may not paint dots, stripes or anything to help them reload or align sights quicker that's completely retarded. not like this is specialized parts or equipment not available to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixsixnine Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 On 3/14/2018 at 3:53 PM, americanbrosinarms said: Yes they picked it up and because it was an unloaded start and used my starter mag (still had 11 rounds in it). Fired 6 rounds did a reload they picked it up and counted it. That's pretty hardcore. I've never had anyone count rounds in my mags, even at big(ger) matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 2 hours ago, sixsixnine said: That's pretty hardcore. I've never had anyone count rounds in my mags, even at big(ger) matches. I count rounds on unloaded starts every time. I don't chase down dropped mags though. I just look for an 11th shot or 10th followed by a new mag with no need to rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Sarge said: I count rounds on unloaded starts every time. I don't chase down dropped mags though. I just look for an 11th shot or 10th followed by a new mag with no need to rack. We had this happen this weekend to a prod shooter. I was ROing and didn't catch it but the stats RO caught it. I had counted the 10 shots but the no need to rack didn't catch my notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixsixnine Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 56 minutes ago, Sarge said: I count rounds on unloaded starts every time. I don't chase down dropped mags though. I just look for an 11th shot or 10th followed by a new mag with no need to rack. Yeah, definitely. Had plenty of folks paying attention to the number of shots fired, even at small matches. Never had anyone count the remaining rounds in my dropped mags before. That's dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 11 hours ago, sixsixnine said: Never had anyone count the remaining rounds in my dropped mags before. That's dedication. i might have another word for that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixsixnine Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 32 minutes ago, davsco said: i might have another word for that... Yeah, I was trying to be nice lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americanbrosinarms Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 On 7/9/2018 at 11:30 PM, sixsixnine said: Yeah, definitely. Had plenty of folks paying attention to the number of shots fired, even at small matches. Never had anyone count the remaining rounds in my dropped mags before. That's dedication. Yeah that is what I thought I guess he taught my ass a lesson I think about him on every unloaded start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muncie21 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 On 7/10/2018 at 12:30 AM, sixsixnine said: Yeah, definitely. Had plenty of folks paying attention to the number of shots fired, even at small matches. Never had anyone count the remaining rounds in my dropped mags before. That's dedication. The part that kills me is that if the OP only shot 8 rounds, there was clearly not a competitive advantage, albeit a clear violation of the written rule, however not sure if the spirit of the rule was in violation; splitting hairs I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, muncie21 said: not sure if the spirit of the rule was in violation No such animal exists. A rule is either broken or it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 It appears that this is no longer the case. Ran a shooter at A8 on Saturday (carry optics) who had a streak of white-out in the magwell area. Stated it was to aid in reloading. Asked him if it was legal and he stated he did not know, and neither dd I for sure. So since Troy was also at the match, i tracked him down and asked him about that for CO and Production. He stated that they don't care about that anymore. LOL, told Flexmoney I was putting his barber pole back in my guns.... Don't take that as an official ruling, but from his lips to God's ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosswoodford Posted November 28, 2018 Share Posted November 28, 2018 On 3/13/2018 at 8:02 AM, Part_time_redneck said: The answer I got was " because it's supposed to hurt". Interesting you say that. I had that same conversation with a couple RO's in Iowa, ironically at the same range the Iowa Sectional is at... They said the exact same thing. I get that it's supposed to hurt, but when it didn't give you a competitive advantage anyway, and was unintentional, why cant they just move you to limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Part_time_redneck Posted December 1, 2018 Share Posted December 1, 2018 On 11/28/2018 at 5:34 PM, Rosswoodford said: Interesting you say that. I had that same conversation with a couple RO's in Iowa, ironically at the same range the Iowa Sectional is at... They said the exact same thing. I get that it's supposed to hurt, but when it didn't give you a competitive advantage anyway, and was unintentional, why cant they just move you to limited? A move to Limited would be logical in my opinion. That’s why I asked. Troy was teaching my RO class, I wanted clarification and that was the answer I got. Personally, bumping a Prod guy to limited where he can load to max capacity, 17 or so still has him at a distinct disadvantage when you factor in maj/min scoring, lack of magwell, and still lower capacity. However not the way the rule reads. Is is it a bit overkill in my opinion, yes. If I’m RO’ing someone running Prod and they fire 12 plus without a reload will I let it go. No. Welcome to open. To not enforce a rule is doing the shooter a disservice. The lessons we remember are the hard taught ones. Also, first match or seasoned vet, the rules have to be applied consistently to every competitor in the match. Not the way I would have written the rule, I feel it is overkill, but it is the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) On 7/10/2018 at 12:30 AM, sixsixnine said: Yeah, definitely. Had plenty of folks paying attention to the number of shots fired, even at small matches. Never had anyone count the remaining rounds in my dropped mags before. That's dedication. On 7/10/2018 at 12:29 PM, davsco said: i might have another word for that... On 7/9/2018 at 9:22 PM, sixsixnine said: That's pretty hardcore. I've never had anyone count rounds in my mags, even at big(ger) matches. As long as the RO staff picked up everyone's dropped magazine and counted the rounds that remained, then that would be equally applying the rules to all competitors. If they didn't do that, then the CRO has some explaining to do.... specifically why he chose the OP to count his remaining rounds in the dropped magazine. BC Edited December 30, 2018 by BillChunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Probably because he watched the guy at make ready, pick up the mag and stick another round in it.. Not hard to look at a mag and see that it has 2 rounds in it.. Not like u have to strip any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixsixnine Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 12/30/2018 at 10:07 AM, BillChunn said: As long as the RO staff picked up everyone's dropped magazine and counted the rounds that remained, then that would be equally applying the rules to all competitors. If they didn't do that, then the CRO has some explaining to do.... specifically why he chose the OP to count his remaining rounds in the dropped magazine. BC I smell harassment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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