Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die

[MikeyScuba]

I have a very similar setup 190gr Ibejheads round nose, lee u die, lee fcd die but with a normal Redding seating die.  No issues other than the occasional round not going in straight and not passing the hundo.  But going off fine in the gun. 1-2%- not worth worrying about 

[Avenida]

On 2/11/2017 at 6:47 PM, rooster said:

https://youtu.be/fWkoDoFBH7I

I found it.

 

I just purchased this die and I am not fully convinced that this video is correct in the way the day is set up.

 

this die is designed to hold the entire case, for example, so I would have started by seating the body all the way down until touching the loader plate and then, with the micrometer extended out to the maximum setting I wouls find my correct oal.

 

i think that by not using the die body fully you will get scraped cases as shown in this thread, as your die can’t fully align the brass before seating the bullet.

 

Also, the whole point of having a micrometer is being able to start from zero and not use a guess-stimation.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, as I am going to be setting this die soon and might even do a new video If I find a better way to set it up.

[rooster]

If you follow his instructions the die body almost touches the shell plate when he’s done. Which is what the instructions that come with the die say. What the instructions don’t tell you is about making the bell larger than the die id so that the case is supported while bullet is being seated. The Redding instructions leave much to be desired, and that video so far has the best set up that I could find.

[Avenida]

5 hours ago, rooster said:

If you follow his instructions the die body almost touches the shell plate when he’s done. Which is what the instructions that come with the die say. What the instructions don’t tell you is about making the bell larger than the die id so that the case is supported while bullet is being seated. The Redding instructions leave much to be desired, and that video so far has the best set up that I could find.

 

Yes I agree with this, however when he is done the die isnt touching the die and it is a bit short.

the die body in my opion should not be moved after it touches the plate (almost touching) and all the other settings should be done by the micro meter.

 

I will do some experimentingand report back.

 

 

[rooster]

I also couldn’t figure out why he has you stop threading the main die body when the insert starts to raise. Which was difficult to see. I put a pencil on it and when it moved I stopped and then followed the remainder of his instructions. But then you end up turning the die down again anyway. Also he did not go into using the zero feature. I might try to contact him. His other videos are pretty good.

[rooster]

I just rewatched his video and when he is finished the die almost down to shell plate. The Redding instructions tell you to kiss the shell plate and then back off till you can easily read micrometer. So you may have to back up at least one turn if you cannot read micrometer. If you want to stay right on shellplate then you might have to change your position to read. You do not have to be all the way down. The die body has kept the case rigid through the whole seat process. That little bit of being off the plate is not going to effect anything.

[Avenida]

6 hours ago, rooster said:

I just rewatched his video and when he is finished the die almost down to shell plate. The Redding instructions tell you to kiss the shell plate and then back off till you can easily read micrometer. So you may have to back up at least one turn if you cannot read micrometer. If you want to stay right on shellplate then you might have to change your position to read. You do not have to be all the way down. The die body has kept the case rigid through the whole seat process. That little bit of being off the plate is not going to effect anything.

 

That is correct however his instructions seem backwards. There is also no need to start with the micrometer at 1500 (as he has suggested. 

It is just seems and odd way to set up this die, I am just waiting for bullets to try this myself.

 

[Avenida]

I just tried both methods:

using the video and secondly just screwing the die down down and finding a setting with the micro meter.

it is about the same.

[858]

Setting up the Redding die should be easy. Screw the die body down until it touches the shell plate. Back it out until it's aligned to you prefered markings orientation. Back out the micrometer and seat a bullet, adjust the micrometer until the seating depth is to your preference. If you get brass shavings, use less flare. If you can't use less flare without shaving the bullet switch to .400 bullets. That video is far more complicated than it needs to be and if you have an interference fit between the brass and the shell you're going to have tons of brass shavings on your shell plate. 40SW should be a painless cartridge to reload.

[rooster]

One thing that happened to me is that if the (nub), I don’t know what you would call it. It’s the metal thing controlled by the set screw. If that is flush so that it doesn’t contact seating stem, your reading on the micrometer will be really low. At least it was for me in loading 9 mm, trying to get an oal of 1.120. So I had to screw it out a few thousandths to get me in the range that I needed. Also the instructions at least for me are not very clear on how to use it. If someone can explain better please do.

[sx2gl35]

Per Lyman M die instructions: "Cast bullet reloaders should use this die to prevent shaving of bullet metal during the seating operation."   

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by sx2gl35
To remove personal opinion.

[cheby]

I had the same issue with Redding seating dies loading both 9mm and 40sw while using coated bullets. I never was able to resolve it. I just switched to dillon seating dies. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by cheby

[bigedp51]

 

On 4/20/2019 at 3:48 PM, sx2gl35 said:

Per Lyman M die instructions: "Cast bullet reloaders should use this die to prevent shaving of bullet metal during the seating operation."   

 

 

 

I agree 100% on using the Lyman type "M" expander dies for straight inline seating.

 

The Lyman type "M" expander die insures straight inline bullet seating.

 

 

 

And after looking at the video and the chewed up lock rings I advise using soft jawed pliers.

 

 

Also wet tumbling may have peened the case mouth and the rolled over edge of the case mouth caused the scraping.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by bigedp51

[bigedp51]

Another quick note, the patent for the Lyman type "M" expander expired and Redding now makes dies with the same type expander.

 

The Redding Premium Expander die contains the unique Redding expander plug now coated in TiN, Titanium Nitride for added surface hardness, lubricity and durability. The TiN coating will also reduce brass build up on the expander as well, an important improvement for high volume reloaders. What makes the Redding Expander unique is the series of processes it provides as it travels into the case itself. First a radius on its base eases entry into the case mouth.  Next a parallel expander section expands and true’s the case internally to create a perfect bearing surface for the bullet as it is seated. This also adds a more uniform bullet pull and start pressure as well.  Next is a small step, to properly align the bullet with the centerline of the cartridge case. This positions the bullet for proper contact with the seating micrometer, adding uniformity during actual seating process. Lastly, a flare is the final step on the Redding expander plug to further open the case mouth when using cast bullets so that they do not shave lead during the seating process.

[nomore606]

I put the Mr Bulletfeeder powder thru expander and it completely eliminated my issue. 

[78Staff]

Older thread, but I was thinking about picking some of these up on BF sales... I actually had one before but had issues with it and abandoned it, but was thinking about picking up up a couple of Redding Micrometer Crimp dies so figured I would try the seating die again.  So I did a search on BE to catch back up on the Comp Seating dies and any issues.  I had read this thread before but kinda forgotten about it, and glad I found it again.  I will likely skip the Comp Seaters, as I use a MBF and do need a certain amount of flair for nice consistent bullet seating on the 1050.  IIRC, that amount of flair was a bit too much for the CSD, which I had forgotten until I re-read this thread.

 

I also read on Cast Boolits that Redding actually advises this die is not meant for cast bullets, but for jacketed or plated only.  So one would assume they will be iffy with coated as well.  Although that knowlege2you guy that does the videos appears to be using them with cast bullets in this seating stem mod video.

 

M-Die might help, and/or the MBF power drop funnel, but on the 1050 the swage station backer does this for you already, in fact MBF themselves actually advise against using the MBF funnel on a 1050 as it's not needed, and does cause excessive sticking, especially on wet tumbled brass.

Edited November 29, 2019 by 78Staff

[rooster]

Here’s one other thing I learned about the micrometer seat die. Check the overall length of your bullets. If that dimension varies greatly your oal’s will also because the die seats off the ogive. So the amount of bullet inside the case will remain consistent but the oal will vary. What I do is measure a handful of bullets use the one with the shortest oal and set your die to the oal you want. Then any bullets greater than that will be off.  I was also told that some manufacturers ogive’s are off and that affects oal also. Sharpie your bullet and take your die apart, put your bullet in the seat stem and twist it around and you’ll see it remove sharpie on the shoulder. 

[78Staff]

Good point - IMO I think it's just too finicky for the only real benefit of easier adjustments.  It hasn't shown to improve accuracy, hasn't shown to decrease oal variance (generally), and can be fussy with case mouth dimensions commonly needed for automated bullet feeding and lead/coated sized bullets.  Also it's iffy on SWC's since Redding doesn't make a dedicated SWC stem - so you have to buy an additional stem and break out the dremel, otherwise it can catch on the ogive vs the shoulder which causes all kinds of inconsistencies.  I just don't think it has much value for bulk/automated processing or range fodder, etc.  But, that's probably why Redding calls it the Competition Seat Die, not the RangeFodder Seat Die :).

 

Kinda waffling on the micrometer crimp dies also... I'm sure it works fine, but do I really need it when I use primarily one bullet for 10mm, one bullet for 9mm, and two bullets for 45.  Not a whole lot of adjusting going on there really.  Not sure it's worth $250 for 3 of them (for me).

 

My Brownells Black Friday order is getting smaller and smaller lol.

[B585]

10 hours ago, rooster said:

Here’s one other thing I learned about the micrometer seat die. Check the overall length of your bullets. If that dimension varies greatly your oal’s will also because the die seats off the ogive. So the amount of bullet inside the case will remain consistent but the oal will vary. What I do is measure a handful of bullets use the one with the shortest oal and set your die to the oal you want. Then any bullets greater than that will be off.  I was also told that some manufacturers ogive’s are off and that affects oal also. Sharpie your bullet and take your die apart, put your bullet in the seat stem and twist it around and you’ll see it remove sharpie on the shoulder. 

Isn’t seated depth being consistent rather the OAL being consistent what we really want.  That will give the most accurate ammo and the least variation in velocity, correct?  I don’t reload for precession rifle, but that’s always the impression I got from guys who do.  It seems they go to great lengths to figure out the seated depth.
In any case,  I love the Redding Comp seating die.  I tried a few different ones and this has worked the best for me.  I have reloaded about 10k rounds of .40 and about 15k rounds of 9mm, all of which were coated bullets and never had an issue.  I recently have been changing my OAL as I have switched guns and found it to be very consistent.  I won’t use any other seating die.  Just my 2 cents.

[78Staff]

On 11/29/2019 at 4:38 PM, 78Staff said:

Good point - IMO I think it's just too finicky for the only real benefit of easier adjustments.  It hasn't shown to improve accuracy, hasn't shown to decrease oal variance (generally), and can be fussy with case mouth dimensions commonly needed for automated bullet feeding and lead/coated sized bullets.  Also it's iffy on SWC's since Redding doesn't make a dedicated SWC stem - so you have to buy an additional stem and break out the dremel, otherwise it can catch on the ogive vs the shoulder which causes all kinds of inconsistencies.  I just don't think it has much value for bulk/automated processing or range fodder, etc.  But, that's probably why Redding calls it the Competition Seat Die, not the RangeFodder Seat Die :).

 

Kinda waffling on the micrometer crimp dies also... I'm sure it works fine, but do I really need it when I use primarily one bullet for 10mm, one bullet for 9mm, and two bullets for 45.  Not a whole lot of adjusting going on there really.  Not sure it's worth $250 for 3 of them (for me).

 

My Brownells Black Friday order is getting smaller and smaller lol.

 

 

Well I flip-flopped, figured i would try the comp seater and micrometer taper crimp dies in one caliber, so ordered a pair in 45acp.

 

I'm not wild about the round lock rings, it's hard to get them tight to the toolhead, and I've had the die back out a few times while I was setting up the die.  Not a lot of room to get a bite on them with pliers on the 1050.  I am probably going to swap the Redding round nuts for standard Dillon lock nuts unless there's a compelling reason not to.

 

The seat dies works well enough, I was able to dial it in pretty quickly, other than the lock ring deal.  The taper crimp die though, it's odd.  There's a bit of a "hitch" when the die comes up almost like the brass is sticking for a sec then it pops loose.  I suspect my crimp may be a bit too much, I was shooting for .471 like my previous loading session but likely need to open it up a bit with these coated 230's.  But even with a lesser crimp ie around 473-474 it still "grabs" the brass before popping loose, but not as bad.  Also leaves a shiny ring around the cased mouth, which the Dillon die never did.

 

So more tweaking is needed for sure.

 

 

 

 

[xxl7evenlxx]

11 hours ago, 78Staff said:

 

 

Well I flip-flopped, figured i would try the comp seater and micrometer taper crimp dies in one caliber, so ordered a pair in 45acp.

 

I'm not wild about the round lock rings, it's hard to get them tight to the toolhead, and I've had the die back out a few times while I was setting up the die.  Not a lot of room to get a bite on them with pliers on the 1050.  I am probably going to swap the Redding round nuts for standard Dillon lock nuts unless there's a compelling reason not to.

 

The seat dies works well enough, I was able to dial it in pretty quickly, other than the lock ring deal.  The taper crimp die though, it's odd.  There's a bit of a "hitch" when the die comes up almost like the brass is sticking for a sec then it pops loose.  I suspect my crimp may be a bit too much, I was shooting for .471 like my previous loading session but likely need to open it up a bit with these coated 230's.  But even with a lesser crimp ie around 473-474 it still "grabs" the brass before popping loose, but not as bad.  Also leaves a shiny ring around the cased mouth, which the Dillon die never did.

 

So more tweaking is needed for sure.

 

 

 

 

Check to make sure your flare and bell while entering the Redding Bullet seater is not catching. The seater itself has a tight guide, which in turn if you have a wide flare will mark up your brass. You may be mistaking the crimp die as your problem when in fact its the seater.

[78Staff]

16 hours ago, xxl7evenlxx said:

Check to make sure your flare and bell while entering the Redding Bullet seater is not catching. The seater itself has a tight guide, which in turn if you have a wide flare will mark up your brass. You may be mistaking the crimp die as your problem when in fact its the seater.

 

Thanks, I tweaked both some more tonight - actually I basically started over since I wanted to swap to the smaller Dillon lock rings.  I'm not seeing the wiping/shiny that I was before - I'm walking a fine line between just enough flair to use a MBF but not too excessive for the seater sleeve.

I did some short test runs tonight.. so far I really don't see any real difference from using my Dillon dies, other than once they are set up, it is easier to make a change.  The seating die depth seems to move around a bit, which is annoying, honestly.  It's only a few thousandths, and could be due to my bullet choice, a coated 230g RN - a jacketed bullet might be more consistent maybe?   The taper crimp die seems to be working well, even with mixed brass.

 

As I mentioned before, I'm on the fence.  I'm just not seeing a great benefit over the standard Dillon dies I've used forever, other than the ease adjustability I suppose.

[xxl7evenlxx]

29 minutes ago, 78Staff said:

 

Thanks, I tweaked both some more tonight - actually I basically started over since I wanted to swap to the smaller Dillon lock rings.  I'm not seeing the wiping/shiny that I was before - I'm walking a fine line between just enough flair to use a MBF but not too excessive for the seater sleeve.

I did some short test runs tonight.. so far I really don't see any real difference from using my Dillon dies, other than once they are set up, it is easier to make a change.  The seating die depth seems to move around a bit, which is annoying, honestly.  It's only a few thousandths, and could be due to my bullet choice, a coated 230g RN - a jacketed bullet might be more consistent maybe?   The taper crimp die seems to be working well, even with mixed brass.

 

As I mentioned before, I'm on the fence.  I'm just not seeing a great benefit over the standard Dillon dies I've used forever, other than the ease adjustability I suppose.

I came to the same conclusion.

The Redding Seater is nice for adjustments but i ended up purchasing a Mighty Armory Seating Die.

I found that the adjustment on the MA to be more than adequate because i test OAL in bullet setup anyways, and the stem is derlin and can be altered to bullet mold for tighter variance off the ogive..

Your OAL Variances are from used mixed brass and small bullet ogive deformities. A +- .005 variance isn't bad from mixed head stamps(I.E. the +- would be: 1.150 to 1.160 wanting a OAL of 1.155) I tend to hover around a +- .003.

Right now my setup is:

Dillon sizing and decapping (looking into the MA TNT)

Dillon Standard Powder Funnel

RCBS LockOut 

MA Seater

Lee FCD carbide

[78Staff]

Re OAL variance, yeah that's what I suspected, and would see the same from other dies, a couple thou either way - but other dies don't cost $100 a pop 

 

Using the Dillon's for so long I've gotten used to using the flats of the adjustment nut, ie 1 flat turn is so much, a half flat turn is so much, etc.  I'm going to run some more before making a final decision, but may just swap back to the Dillon counterparts and save myself about $200.  These probably have a place, but long stretches of bulk loading mixed brass on a progressive probably isn't really it :).  I do use Forster micrometer dies for my precision rifle loading on the co-ax though, for instance.

 

But that will wait, new 550C arrives today so it's 550 setup day for me :).  Actually should be pretty straitforward I'm just replacing a 550B so just mounting and moving stuff over/tweaking setup.

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by 78Staff

[78Staff]

Well the 550 didn't show (Damn Fedex) so I had some free time (the 2nd half of the SEC Championship game opened up for me, unfortunately ) so worked on the 1050 some more.  Wound up pulling the the Redding's and going back to my Dillon dies.  Just not enough benefit for what.. 4x the cost?.  Back to Brownells they go.  Had the Dillons' set in about 2 minutes.

Edited December 8, 2019 by 78Staff