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vtecpaoche

Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die

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I've recently switched to a Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die from a Lee Bullet Seating Die.  I'm loading on a Dillon XL 650 with the following dies: 

  1-Lee U-Die

  2-Dillon Powder Die w/ Mr Bullet Feeder Powder Funnel

  3-Mr Bullet Feeder Dropper

  4-Redding Competition Seating Die

  5-Lee Factory Crimp Die

 

I'm using Ibejihead 180 gr 40 S&W in the RNFP profile.  The brass are range pickup brass.  It seems like I was getting a decent amount of failures out of every batch when I was using the Lee Bullet Seating Die so I figured I would switch to the Redding Seating Die to see if that would fix it.  With the Redding Bullet Seating Die, the moly coating is getting scraped off every bullet I seat.  I increased the case mouth flaring but it seems to still be scraping the coating off.  On top of it, it is causing issues with the Mr. Bullet Feeder Dropper as it is dropping two bullets instead of one every so often.  Increasing the flaring seems to have also caused the rounds to not case gauge without increasing the crimp on the Lee FCD.  The press is also very hard to operate while trying to separate the brass from the powder funnel so I do not think increasing the flaring anymore will help.  At this point, I think increasing the flaring anymore will causing damage to the brass as well as the dies so I backed it off.

 

What I noticed at a certain point is the moly coating is only scraping off on one side regardless of how much I flare it.  I'm curious as to whether the bullet stem of the Redding bullet seating die is contacting the bullet incorrectly and is pushing bullet in at an angle causing the scraping.  I'm tempted to switch back to the Lee Seating Die as scraping the moly coating and lead off each complete bullet is a big PITA.

 

The issue why I was getting so many rejects before was more due to Glock bulged bullets.  The U-die helped but did not solve the bulge problem.  I did get the Redding G-RX push thru die and that seems to have solved the problem.  I think the U-die may not be of much use anymore with the G-RX die and I may just switch back to a regular Lee sizing die to put less stress on the brass.  Now, I know why people go with a Case Pro.

 

I'd like to keep the Redding Competition Seating Die and try to get it to work as it's an expensive die but I'm just thinking the bullet seating stem isn't working with the bullet profile.  Any guidance on this would be much appreciated.

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I reset the flaring as well as the crimp die and took some pictures.  I also measured the diameter of the bullets to ensure they are the right width.

 

The first picture shows the bullet sits well with the current flare.  After seating, you can see the moly coating scraped off.  In the second picture, you do not see as much of the coating scraped off on the other side although it is still scraping.  I can flare it out the brass a bit more to reduce the scraping.

 

When seating the bullet, you can definitely hear the scraping sound as the bullet is being seated.

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Something is definitely off a bit...

The Redding die shouldnt be touching anything but the bullet unless the cases is "bell"-ed too much. Have you tried a standard sizing die in station #1? With the FCD at the end, I dont think you meed the u-die to start with.

Edited by wgj3

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Go on you tube and search for a handle knowledge2you.  He shows you how to set up a Redding competition die.  Your supposed to have enough flair so that there is resistance along the die body.  This ensures that the case is straight to accept the bullet.  I don't know if that is your problem but it is a good video to watch.  His instructions are way better than what came with the die.

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1 hour ago, rooster said:

Thanks, this was the video I used to set up the die.  There really was no other good videos out there.  I went back to set the bell as per the video.

 

The measured bell after going thru the Redding Seating die is not quite concentric with it varying between .42 all the way up to .423.  The bell is flared to a concentric .425.  The brass barely scrapes along the inside of the seating die.

 

I also removed the U-die and set up the standard Lee sizing die.  I tried to load a bullet after setting this and the result is the same with the scraping of the moly coating.  This is almost frustrating enough to go back to the Lee seating die.

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Can you post a pic of the toolhead from the side with the Redding CSD?

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I'm still playing around with the Redding CSD.  I took it apart.  There is some moly coating on the inside as well as the steam.  I cleaned it all out and re-assembled.  It seems the moly coating is scraping off when the seating stem meets resistance as I ran it without the top of the die to see if anything is binding.  What little contact the die body has with the brass is not touching the bullet in anyway.

 

I can try backing out the Redding CSD but the it does not really do any crimping.  It requires a separate crimp die in order for the bullet to case gauge.

 

 

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The extra belling and Redding CSD should solve the issue, the bell in your photo looks sufficient.  Are you using case lube when re-sizing? Ibejiheads offer both .400 and .401 but if you don't request the .400 in the drop down option when ordering they send the .401 by default. I've been seating their .401 diameter without scraping the coating but you might have better luck with the  .400 diameter option.

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I don't completely disagree with the post above, but you should only need the .400 bullets for accuracy in a given barrel. That .001 isnt going to solve the amount of shaving/scraping you're getting.

Unload the brass(or turn off casefeeder) and such from the press. Then, using a single case, cycle it through the stations and see what you get. Seat slowly and check whats happening as you completely seat the bullet. You can raise the handle enough to lower and view the round without rotating the shellplate.

If you keep seeing the same thing, adjust the powder die down a 1/4 turn and try again.

Also, try running a case that's been through the expander up into the CSD. Measure "bell" before and after to see if there is any change.

Your earlier pic of bullet sitting in case mouth looks good, so the resulting shaving doesn't make sense...to me...

Nothing like a little more bell to maybe fix the problem though!

Edited by wgj3
Spelling&grammar

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I believe the .001 makes more of a difference than you think. My first moly coated bullets were Blue Bullets, and had no shaving issues at all.  Blue Bullets are .400 but then I tried BBI with the same die settings and had lots of shaving issues, BBIs are .401

however, I do think you are right about the belling.  I over belled way more than I thought I should and it cured my shaving problem with the BBIs, the OP's first photo with the bullet standing upright on the case mouth looks like sufficient belling, but you might try going further to see if it helps, you might be surprised, I was....

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Just realized my shaving issue with black bullets was with their 9mm 147 compared to the blue bullets 9mm 147s ... which were .001 different in diameter. The BBIs in 40 are .400 diameter

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Regardless of diameter, I think over belling more than most would expect will be the solution

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I've tried the more bell route.  I've increased the bell to the point where I have to crank down on the crimp die so that the case will fall into the case gauge.  This also resulted in the brass sticking to the Mr. Bullet Feeder expander and lots of force to remove it.  When it gets to the bullet dropper, it is activating more than one bullet to fall and possibly causing damage to the dropper.  When the case goes into the Redding CSD, the brass is clearly scraping on the sides of the die and very tough on the CSD as well as the brass.  The results are the same with the moly coating scraped off.

 

I removed the Redding CSD and put it on a single stage press.  I slowly inserted the case with the bullet in.  The bell of the case actually starts getting reduced before the bullet is seated.  As I raise the ram to the point that bullet is starting to seat is when the moly started scraping off.  Given that the bell is being removed before the bullet is seated, I'm not sure if more bell is going to help.

 

I did pull one of the bullets out and the coating is definitely being scraped off the sides.  I'll get a video up shortly of the seating process.

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Here's the video:

 

 

At the 40 second mark is when you see the moly start scraping off.

 

One other thing to note is this is actually brass I purchased that was cleaned and polished.  They are so shiny that they look brand new.  I usually just wet tumble what brass I collect from the range but it does not get this shiny and I've run out of clean brass so I'm going thru what I purchased.  I found some other brass I purchased from another supplier.  I loaded it and it did not scrape the coating.  

 

I'm wondering if there is some coating on the inside of the brass that I'm using that is reducing the internal case volume.  A quick measurement with my calipers show the internal diameter to be around .399 while the shiny brass is around .3965.  Would that cause the issue?

Edited by vtecpaoche

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What is the head stamp ? Sounds like you are using stepped brass, look for a ring on the inside of the brass wall.

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That's the funny part.  The headstamps are all mixed.  Just sampling a few and I found Federal, Win, Blazer, and Herters.  The only commonality is that the shiny ones all came from one source.

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1 hour ago, 57K said:

 

That was my suspicion. Your flare while not a lot, looked to me like enough. But, if the die is removing flare as the handload goes further up in the die, it is most likely scraping the coating a good ways before the bullet is completely seated. I'd keep flare as shown in your first pics and solve the problem as it sounds as if you already have. Don't try to remove any flare with the seating die, let your taper crimp die take care of that.

 

 

The change in the bell from .425 to .42 shouldn't cause any scraping.  My concern is more the part that did not get belled which is lower in the case.  I'm curious if anyone else experienced this issue with brass cases.  I'm going to contact the person I purchased the brass from to see if they would be willing to share how they processed the brass and if there was any material that may have gone on the inside of the brass case.  Worst case scenario is that I wet tumble these cases again with stainless media to see if that helps.  It's a shame as these cases are really shiny.

 

The alternate is to give up on these shiny brass and use the other brass I purchased.  That would suck to just have 5k of this brass and not be able to use it.

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Sounds like you may have isolated the issue to one batch of mixed brass.  If you've successfully loaded other batches of mixed brass, chances are there is something about this batch of cleaned brass that requires closer inspection.  Definitely contact the brass supplier to discuss.

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I get this same issue. But not nearly as bad and intermittent.
I believe it's the nature of the Redding CSD. "Alignment and accuracy are enhanced by the cartridge case and bullet being completely supported and aligned in a close fitting, precision ground sleeve before the bullet seating begins." The bell is being removed by the "close fitting, precision ground sleeve" before the seating of the bullet occurs.

The same thing can happen with the Lee die as well, if the die body is screwed down a lot


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I think something may be off with your CSD. It shouldnt be removing enough (if any) flare/bell to cause what you're seeing. Reach out to Redding and explain what you're experiencing. I bet they will make it right or explain what you need to do differently.

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For what it's worth I use the same seating die and I use .401 diameter hitek coated bullets from bayou, black bullets and acme with no issues.  I don't use a U die and I do not wet tumble.  My guess is that it's one or both of those things.

 

edit: the black bullets I have are .400, not .401.  But the other 2 brands are .401.  

Edited by darkvibe

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9 minutes ago, Avenida said:

What happened to this thread?

i hate when people open threads and do not post a solution.

 

My solution was to stop using that batch of brass which I mentioned on Feb 12, 2017.  I’m not sure if it was the case prep they used but I could not find any details on what they did different in the case prep as the person I purchased it from is no longer in business.

 

For my range picked brass, I still have the occasional coating getting scraped off but it’s pretty minor.  I’ve also since switched from loading 40s to loading 9s which I do not see this issue.

 

I saw a really cool table using epoxy and shiny brass.  I think I may go that route will all the shiny brass I could not use.

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