Will they ever do away with major/minor for Limited?

[twodownzero]

On 11/5/2016 at 9:16 PM, wtturn said:

DVC

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Exactly.  Power is one of the basic principles of practical shooting!  If they eliminated major power factor, they would have abandoned one of the most fundamental aspects of our sport.

DVC!

[Nik Habicht]

2 hours ago, 36873687 said:

No way that's why  no one shoots major In  production 

There's no rule preventing you from shooting major in production.  Your non-alpha hits however won't be scored any higher than usual.....

You have choices -- you may not believe that one is viable, but.....

....there are people who shoot Lim/L10 and even Open using minor pf ammo.  Some of them even do ok locally.....

[36873687]

10 minutes ago, Nik Habicht said:

There's no rule preventing you from shooting major in production.  Your non-alpha hits however won't be scored any higher than usual.....

You have choices -- you may not believe that one is viable, but.....

....there are people who shoot Lim/L10 and even Open using minor pf ammo.  Some of them even do ok locally.....

True but never seen a major shooter in production. 

[36873687]

True I started shooting limited minor. Just no way they will change major scoring 

[Southpaw]

8 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

I've yet to hear a compelling reason to change it.

because .40 is dumb

[IHAVEGAS]

16 hours ago, twodownzero said:

If they eliminated major power factor, they would have abandoned one of the most fundamental aspects of our sport.

I don't think that the concept of fundamental aspects means anything to 99.931 % of us, way way back when when folks were sitting around the fire in the cave and daydreaming rules for a new game it would have provided common ground for discussion. 

[edwill]

Eric would have won last World shoot limited/std with his production scores

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[teros135]

3 minutes ago, edwill said:

Eric would have won last World shoot limited/std with his production scores

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Did Lim and Prod shoot the same COFs, at the same match, in the same squads, heads-up against each other?  Was Eric shooting in Limited, competing against Limited shooters?  Did any other Production folks shoot better than Limited (i.e., can "regular" shooters do this - Eric is somewhat of a phenomenon).

[edwill]

Did Lim and Prod shoot the same COFs, at the same match, in the same squads, heads-up against each other?  Was Eric shooting in Limited, competing against Limited shooters?  Did any other Production folks shoot better than Limited (i.e., can "regular" shooters do this - Eric is somewhat of a phenomenon).

Eric is a different phenomenon!

I think that you should shoot what you have, and have fun! If you want to be super competitive, you need to shoot 40 Major!

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[twodownzero]

12 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

I don't think that the concept of fundamental aspects means anything to 99.931 % of us, way way back when when folks were sitting around the fire in the cave and daydreaming rules for a new game it would have provided common ground for discussion. 

Then why do we still use steel targets?  Or chrono at all?

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

Then why do we still use steel targets?  Or chrono at all?

The existing rules are written to allow one and occasionally necessitate the other.

When deciding whether or not a change would improve any sport I don't think most folks assign weight to the historic 'fundamental aspects' of the rules, I think they worry about whatever would be best for current membership and best suit current circumstances. Just my opinion. 

 

[Pistolpete9]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:54 PM, Southpaw said:

because .40 is dumb

That's the true compelling reason.  .40 is likely heading towards being obsolete, which means our sport will be perpetuating an irrelevant bunch of equipment, which means we will slowly get less and less options to shoot.  But hey, every game has its problems.  I don't think it will change extremely soon, but I hope it does eventually.  In the mean time, I like shooting minor so I do.

[IHAVEGAS]

9 hours ago, Pistolpete9 said:

That's the true compelling reason.  .40 is likely heading towards being obsolete, which means our sport will be perpetuating an irrelevant bunch of equipment, which means we will slowly get less and less options to shoot.  But hey, every game has its problems.  I don't think it will change extremely soon, but I hope it does eventually.  In the mean time, I like shooting minor so I do.

45 costs more to shoot & you take a big hit in round count. It is also longer abandoned by military and police. It survives on momentum and nostalgia and because some folks just like 45 because they do. 

I do not see either 40 or 45 going away.

Other thing is that if the game you are referring to is USPSA, developing and shooting "an irrelevant bunch of equipment" is what we do. Not just guns but tons of gear & accessories. Even in production class, my USPSA rig & heavy steel gun go against the flow of what the rest of the shooting world is buying. 

[JD45]

I think that pretty soon the carry optics type divisions(minor of course) will get huge in USPSA and be adopted by IDPA.

When older shooters find out they can buy a stock pistol and put an affordable dot on it, other divisions will shrink I believe.

People know they can't stand a chance against Army team shooters burning 1000rds. a day in practice. They don't pay the bills. They get the money. We pay the bills.

[Ray_Z]

I wouldn't like the idea at all. The major/minor thing levels the playing field.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 minute ago, Ray_Z said:

I wouldn't like the idea at all. The major/minor thing levels the playing field.

But it is more level if you shoot major ?

[Pistolpete9]

15 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

But it is more level if you shoot major ?

HAHA!  Awesome quote!

[EngineerEli]

I always understood the reason for 9 always being counted minor in limited, was because 9 major, while being similarly dangerous as in open, would encourage people to try faster powders which would soften recoil, but also be even more dangerous chamber pressure wise. The other thing would be actually shooting a 9 major limited gun. With no comp, it would be legitimately painful I would think, could even cause joint problems and such. Granted I have never shot a 9 major round out of a limited gun, but I would think it would not be something I would want to do very many times...

[revoman]

Even though I have never fired the 9x25 (10mm necked down to 9mm) it would definitely make major at a 90 grain bullet at 1908 fps. Interesting thought.

[kneelingatlas]

1 hour ago, EngineerEli said:

Granted I have never shot a 9 major round out of a limited gun, but I would think it would not be something I would want to do very many times...

I have, it's not that big a deal no worse than a small .357 revolver

[IronArcher]

I don't think they would drop minor/major, there IS an argument to be made for it.
On the other hand, changes could be made to scoring to make shooting minor a viable option. The disparity is still too much to make shooting minor viable... even in single stack.
Of course, the math would confuse some, and some others would be mad that they lost their unfair advantage.
So I doubt it will ever change.


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[IHAVEGAS]

41 minutes ago, IronArcher said:

Of course, the math would confuse some,

It would be neat if we could get folks happy with the whole decimal point concept.

It is probably not possible to level the field if we are stuck on whole numbers, but if a Charlie could cost you 1.6 when shooting minor instead of 2.0 , for example, then we should be able to reach the place where folks can shoot what they prefer to shoot and remain competitive. USPSA is intended to be a 'solve the problem your way' sport so possibly a lot of folks would enjoy that freedom of choice of power factor. 

And I hate it that the 6 shot revolver has been forced off of the plank , even though I don't shoot revolver, tradition & all that. 

But I am still going to shoot production. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by IHAVEGAS

[IronArcher]

Could always just go up in numbers for points
M "a" = 10
m "a" = 10
M "b,c" = 8
m "b,c" = 7

Etc.


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[IHAVEGAS]

6 minutes ago, IronArcher said:

Could always just go up in numbers for points
M "a" = 10
m "a" = 10
M "b,c" = 8
m "b,c" = 7

Etc.


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You would have to add a 4th digit for point totals in practiscore & associated software.

That sort of thing is what started the whole y2k crisis. 

[Ray_Z]

On 11/30/2016 at 8:54 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

But it is more level if you shoot major ?

I wouldn't like the idea at all. The major/minor thing levels the playing field.

Sorry, I don't get it.