Max Michel shooting CO at Area 3

[aandabooks]

The test on the popularity of any of the newer divisions is to have a combined Nationals and make people choose what division to compete in.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I think the top shooters are just trying to support the Nationals by shooting Carry Optics for their sponsors. I also think that some are trying to get another national title to their credit. Carry Optics around here have less people attending than limited 10. I think some are waiting to see what the top pistol will be to shoot the division with. Kinda like a CZ is for Production a couple of years ago. I was thinking why not have a Production, Carry Optic and Limited 10 Nationals over 3 days? Thanks, Eric

[Shadyscott999]

That is probably why he is shooting it. Stir up some interest so Sig can sell a few more guns.

Yeah...and get another title in a division that most of the top people won't be shooting.

Really? You do know Max is a "top people"

[Sarge]

That is probably why he is shooting it. Stir up some interest so Sig can sell a few more guns.

Yeah...and get another title in a division that most of the top people won't be shooting.

Yeah I'm sure he's shooting that division because he's hiding from the real competition. Gimme a break. Stuff like that is why most pro shooters usually don't contribute here.

Not sure that's what was meant. Some good shooters just want to get their GM card OR titles in as many divisions as are possible. I know at least one that's gearing up for PCC already to add to the list Edited August 1, 2016 by Sarge

[bockerSV]

This just makes sense to me to see some of these shooters shooting CO. Sig, Glock and Smith all have optics ready models they are trying to sell, these shooters are sponsored by these companies. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday." kind of thing.

[LeviSS]

That is probably why he is shooting it. Stir up some interest so Sig can sell a few more guns.

Yeah...and get another title in a division that most of the top people won't be shooting.

Yeah I'm sure he's shooting that division because he's hiding from the real competition. Gimme a break. Stuff like that is why most pro shooters usually don't contribute here.

Not sure that's what was meant. Some good shooters just want to get their GM card OR titles in as many divisions as are possible. I know at least one that's gearing up for PCC already to add to the list

Yeah...that's exactly what I meant. No shit Max is a top shooter, but I'd say he's shooting it more for Sig to be able to say "Sig 320 - CO Champ" than anything. Edited August 2, 2016 by LeviSS

[Jake Di Vita]

Not sure that's what was meant. Some good shooters just want to get their GM card OR titles in as many divisions as are possible. I know at least one that's gearing up for PCC already to add to the list

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't accuse a multi-national champ and current world champ of title poaching. Seemed pretty obvious that the guy I responded to was doing just that. I think it's far more likely that he is doing it because of sponsor commitments or because he's simply enjoying the division.

I remember shooting L10 nationals one year and I got a ton of crap from people about how I was trying to steal a nationals. I just did it because I thought it was fun to do a bunch of reloads shooting major with Limited gear. People are generally too quick to assign intent to something when they don't even know the people they are talking about.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[LeviSS]

Not sure that's what was meant. Some good shooters just want to get their GM card OR titles in as many divisions as are possible. I know at least one that's gearing up for PCC already to add to the list

People are generally too quick to assign intent to something when they don't even know the people they are talking about.

Kinda like you just did? I meant he's doing it for Sig more than himself, because it's probably not going to mean as much to him when he's not shooting against the best shooters in the world because they aren't shooting it.

[Sarge]

"Sponsor commitments" = You WILL shoot the CON!

[LeviSS]

"Sponsor commitments" = You WILL shoot the CON!

Exactly. Jake is obviously is reading a little too deeply into this. I wasn't taking a swipe at Max.

Edited August 2, 2016 by LeviSS

[Jake Di Vita]

Kinda like you just did? I meant he's doing it for Sig more than himself, because it's probably not going to mean as much to him when he's not shooting against the best shooters in the world because they aren't shooting it.

Sorry if I misunderstood. If I were accusing someone of shooting a division with no competition with the primary intent of poaching a title I'd probably use real close to the same words as the post of yours I quoted originally.

"Sponsor commitments" = You WILL shoot the CON!

Exactly. Jake obviously is reading a little too deeply into this. I wasn't taking a swipe at Max.

So it can't be for sponsor commitments? I don't think I'm reading too much into anything, but w/e.

Smelled like a swipe to me, but text has never been a perfect way of communicating. I know for sure there will be people making swipes at him for it.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[zhunter]

I'm glad he is shooting it, I am happy everytime I see a decent showing at a match, and that is Local or major.

Most I know that have tried it have like it

[Thomas H]

Hello: I think the top shooters are just trying to support the Nationals by shooting Carry Optics for their sponsors.

I think it is fairly telling that half of the shooters in CO division at Area 3 were all pro shooters sponsored by specific gun manufacturers, and were shooting the division that their sponsor wanted them to shoot.

That isn't a dig on any shooter---that's what being a pro shooter means, you shoot (and show how well the gun works) in the division that your sponsor chooses. That's their job. (I don't think it had anything to do with anyone wanting a division finish to brag about. Matter of fact, my BET would be that several of them would really have preferred to shoot a different division that they liked better. But it is their job, so they shot CO.)

So it isn't a dig---it is a comment about the division itself, and how much interest there is in that division---when half of the entire division at an Area-level match is shooting it because it is their job to shoot that division, as opposed to their choice to shoot that division.

[LeviSS]

Hello: I think the top shooters are just trying to support the Nationals by shooting Carry Optics for their sponsors.

I think it is fairly telling that half of the shooters in CO division at Area 3 were all pro shooters sponsored by specific gun manufacturers, and were shooting the division that their sponsor wanted them to shoot.

That isn't a dig on any shooter---that's what being a pro shooter means, you shoot (and show how well the gun works) in the division that your sponsor chooses. That's their job. (I don't think it had anything to do with anyone wanting a division finish to brag about. Matter of fact, my BET would be that several of them would really have preferred to shoot a different division that they liked better. But it is their job, so they shot CO.)

So it isn't a dig---it is a comment about the division itself, and how much interest there is in that division---when half of the entire division at an Area-level match is shooting it because it is their job to shoot that division, as opposed to their choice to shoot that division.

Thank you for explaining my point way better than I did.

[motosapiens]

I remember shooting L10 nationals one year and I got a ton of crap from people about how I was trying to steal a nationals

Hider.

j/k, my first nationals was L10, because that was the only gear I had that fit a nationals I could drive to. I wish more people shot it. I like shooting 10 round major out of a 1911 better than any other division, but production and SS have way more competitors.

Frankly I'm stoked that big mfrs are committing to CO. Eventually I will be too old to see iron sights and I have zero interest in shooting a loud, delicate, expensive, froofy open gun.

Edited August 2, 2016 by motosapiens

[BritinUSA]

To those speculating about why Max was shooting CO, and what he thinks of the division; Why not just send him an email and ask him?

[motosapiens]

To those speculating about why Max was shooting CO, and what he thinks of the division; Why not just send him an email and ask him?

because speculating and bashing people who aren't exactly like us is the reason for the existence of the internet. Duh.

I chatted briefly with max at the match. I just asked him about stages and stuff. I don't really care what he shoots or why, it is still very educational to watch him carefully.

[Jake Di Vita]

I remember shooting L10 nationals one year and I got a ton of crap from people about how I was trying to steal a nationals

Hider.

j/k, my first nationals was L10, because that was the only gear I had that fit a nationals I could drive to. I wish more people shot it. I like shooting 10 round major out of a 1911 better than any other division, but production and SS have way more competitors.

Frankly I'm stoked that big mfrs are committing to CO. Eventually I will be too old to see iron sights and I have zero interest in shooting a loud, delicate, expensive, froofy open gun.

I think there's something very interesting about minor only, 10 rounds, with a dot. I could see myself shooting it in the future for sure.

[rowdyb]

When Mink and I were shooting it, CO, the other day he expressed surprise at how enjoyable he found the shooting of it. Now, he's known as mainly a Prod or sometime SS guy but he seemed to genuinely enjoy the shooting and the change the dot made to shooting a 10 round, minor gun.

I know off and on there is talk of killing a division, L10 or CO or SS or PCC but where I used to be pretty sure I'd want CO to be the division axed now I'm not so sure. Hopefully more people do shoot it. Success breeds success and in this case a lot of what counts as success is measured in participation numbers.

I had hoped that there'd be more people doubling up, shooting Prod and then CO nats. Curious what the break down is. Prod only/CO only/both Prod and CO. I mean, if everyone is a "both" then less than 20% chose to stay. When you're already physically at Nats, to me that seems like a low number...

Edited August 2, 2016 by rowdyb

[Jake Di Vita]

I would guess that a lot of the people not shooting both aren't doing it because a dot is required for CO. It's too bad that you can't shoot irons in that division if you want.

[Nimitz]

That is probably why he is shooting it. Stir up some interest so Sig can sell a few more guns.

Yeah...and get another title in a division that most of the top people won't be shooting.

Yeah I'm sure he's shooting that division because he's hiding from the real competition. Gimme a break. Stuff like that is why most pro shooters usually don't contribute here.

Exactly .....

[BritinUSA]

I think there's something very interesting about minor only, 10 rounds, with a dot. I could see myself shooting it in the future for sure.

It is a lot of fun, this was the 2nd Area 3 match I've shot with this kind of setup (last time was 2014 as Open/Minor).

[alma]

I certainly could be wrong but I suspect that Max isn't getting strong pressure from SIG to compete in CO. Not to say that SIG wouldn't welcome it but it is a new division where Max should be extremely competitive and it makes sense for him to take a stab at being the first CO National champ. I think it's a bonus that his interests and his sponsors may be aligning here. Again, this is all speculation, but from my perspective we haven't seen arm twisting to go shoot CO. I plan to pick it up again after Production Nationals and shoot CO though the remainder of the year minus major 3 Gun matches.

[rowdyb]

Almost every person I know who get's paid to shoot says they avoid forums like the plague. For all sorts of different reasons. Telling......... that there comes a time almost universally where your online time is spent in promotion and not on the types of interactions typical of forums.

Can you picture any of the top 4 people in any of the divisions doing a Reddit AMA? Ben S is the easy answer but anyone else?

[alma]

Almost every person I know who get's paid to shoot says they avoid forums like the plague. For all sorts of different reasons. Telling......... that there comes a time almost universally where your online time is spent in promotion and not on the types of interactions typical of forums.

Can you picture any of the top 4 people in any of the divisions doing a Reddit AMA? Ben S is the easy answer but anyone else?

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1uyt2m/i_am_jerry_miculek_firearms_expert_special_forces/