andrewtac Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Personal preference, carry guns should be loose enough to go bang and cycle all ammo, like a glock. 2011 are game guns, who gives a hoot about a 50 yard guarantee when a life or death situation is 10 feet or closer. USPSA guns like 2011 should be stay in the "game" gun category, self defense guns should be loose and reliable to fire. I saw a lot of Glock "Imperfection" at a match yesterday. I think if you can't maintain a gun a loose plastic pistol might be the right choice. Most of the time if you see a Glock malfunction, it's because the shooter has modified it.......hard to blame the gun for that.I agree with RangerTrace... In fact, the FBI has awarded a contract to GLOCK to arm it's agents. While I own several glocks and still occasionally carry one I wouldn't count on any government contract to be based on performance. Agree if it has issues it is probably from being altered. Government contracts go to the lowest bidder, or to meet a quota, or to make a political statement, or to influence someone, or to pad someone's pocket, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911A12011 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 (edited) Glock is very reliable for CCW, just make sure that you keep the factory configuration. Edited July 4, 2016 by 1911A12011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Personal preference, carry guns should be loose enough to go bang and cycle all ammo, like a glock. 2011 are game guns, who gives a hoot about a 50 yard guarantee when a life or death situation is 10 feet or closer. USPSA guns like 2011 should be stay in the "game" gun category, self defense guns should be loose and reliable to fire. I saw a lot of Glock "Imperfection" at a match yesterday. I think if you can't maintain a gun a loose plastic pistol might be the right choice. Most of the time if you see a Glock malfunction, it's because the shooter has modified it.......hard to blame the gun for that.I agree with RangerTrace... In fact, the FBI has awarded a contract to GLOCK to arm it's agents. While I own several glocks and still occasionally carry one I wouldn't count on any government contract to be based on performance. Agree if it has issues it is probably from being altered. Government contracts go to the lowest bidder, or to meet a quota, or to make a political statement, or to influence someone, or to pad someone's pocket, etc. While I'd love to moderate your post, I won't. I'll wait for one of my Brothers to do that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Personal preference, carry guns should be loose enough to go bang and cycle all ammo, like a glock. 2011 are game guns, who gives a hoot about a 50 yard guarantee when a life or death situation is 10 feet or closer. USPSA guns like 2011 should be stay in the "game" gun category, self defense guns should be loose and reliable to fire. I saw a lot of Glock "Imperfection" at a match yesterday. I think if you can't maintain a gun a loose plastic pistol might be the right choice. Most of the time if you see a Glock malfunction, it's because the shooter has modified it.......hard to blame the gun for that.I agree with RangerTrace... In fact, the FBI has awarded a contract to GLOCK to arm it's agents.While I own several glocks and still occasionally carry one I wouldn't count on any government contract to be based on performance. Agree if it has issues it is probably from being altered. Government contracts go to the lowest bidder, or to meet a quota, or to make a political statement, or to influence someone, or to pad someone's pocket, etc. While I'd love to moderate your post, I won't. I'll wait for one of my Brothers to do that..... Is something offensive? I agreed with you and then offered some things besides performance that could drive government contracts. I am not making it political, claiming one side or the other. Not really sure what I said to bother you or warrant the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polymerfeelsweirdman Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Glocks can fail if not properly maintained (I.e. lube) but I think it is fair to say they are pretty hassle free and simple. Here are the advantages I see that are directly relevant to ccw: -high mag capacity to size ratio -wide range of sizes and calibers with common manual of arms -EXTREMELY overbuilt magazines that are affordable, durable, reliable, and a pain in the ass to disassemble -very light weight unloaded; a lot of the fully loaded weight comes from the ammo itself -a very usable for self defense stock trigger -since it's so simple there isn't a whole lot to go wrong -the stock slide stop is the perfect size and position for strong hand manipulation (for me at least) as opposed to overly large or otherwise in the way ones like HK, Walther, Sig, some CZ's, etc. or requiring weak hand manipulation like 1911's though I see this as less of an issue than the former -surprisingly thin -long barrel length for overall length -tons of sights available (easy to take this for granted) -tons of holsters -tons of aftermarket stuff out there ranging from questionably useful to excellent -gun itself is relatively cheap especially with gssf membership -they just damn work here are some negatives: -accuracy is pretty variable depending on individual gun tolerances; I've seen groups vary from 1" to 5" at 25 yards and I think the smaller models are ironically capable of the most accuracy -trigger while adequate is still not good -no front serrations which is just irritating to me -slide looks like it is made out of rectangle tube rather than being contoured but perhaps that is the best that can be done -ergonomics are crap and gen 4 didn't really do that much for it in my opinion -the fact that many businesses are basically operating on the premise of stippling Glocks and changing a few parts is telling about what is lacking Now take the 1911/2011 for comparison: -capable of extreme accuracy -capable of excellent triggers -lots of aftermarket support -HUGE price range (and quality range) -overally pretty slim excluding the safety -steel is real, no replacement for displacement, etc. Negatives: -heavy, even with aluminum frames -low mag capacity in single stack -magazines are a critical weakness and are much more finicky than with other guns -much harder to get working -quality is expensive -many parts need to be fitted -short and/or tapered cartridges don't work so well -even on "good guns" you can't be guaranteed they'll work out of the box and if they don't and you decide to ask questions online you'll get berated and told to put 1000 rounds through your carry gun before even considering carrying it If you want an officer size gun like a DW ECO why not just get a G43 or PPS M2 and save yourself the $1000 and headache, not to mention the weight when actually carrying it? Don't get me wrong, I would love if there was a single action only gun out there that worked well for carry but everything I can think of has numerous flaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 ... If you want an officer size gun like a DW ECO why not just get a G43 or PPS M2 and save yourself the $1000 and headache, not to mention the weight when actually carrying it? Don't get me wrong, I would love if there was a single action only gun out there that worked well for carry but everything I can think of has numerous flaws. good advice for sure. everything you pick will have some trade offs, and you have to decide what's the most important to you. I most often carry my PPS when I'm out and about my little neighborhood and town. Easy to carry, and I can shoot it well enough at 25 feet or so. the 1911 is a little tougher to carry (not much) but it's a little thicker, a little heavier, etc. but it has more ammo and a better trigger. I carry that one whenever I'm in the wide open, as I know I can make a good shot with it out to 50+ yards. I don't think I could/would get more benefit by spending more money on a set up. If I did, I would spend it. you hit a point of diminishing returns, but it's up to the individual to make that call. Same is true with competition guns. Does a full custom 2011 shoot a little better than a Glock? Sure. Is it worth $4000 more for that? really up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Is something offensive? I agreed with you and then offered some things besides performance that could drive government contracts. I am not making it political, claiming one side or the other. Not really sure what I said to bother you or warrant the response. Do you know anything about government contracts other than what you get from the web and/or media outlets? As someone who's been involved in federal contracting for close to 30 years, I found your comment to be more of a clueless political statement than a fact-based assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Personal preference, carry guns should be loose enough to go bang and cycle all ammo, like a glock. 2011 are game guns, who gives a hoot about a 50 yard guarantee when a life or death situation is 10 feet or closer. USPSA guns like 2011 should be stay in the "game" gun category, self defense guns should be loose and reliable to fire. I saw a lot of Glock "Imperfection" at a match yesterday. I think if you can't maintain a gun a loose plastic pistol might be the right choice. Most of the time if you see a Glock malfunction, it's because the shooter has modified it.......hard to blame the gun for that.I agree with RangerTrace... In fact, the FBI has awarded a contract to GLOCK to arm it's agents.While I own several glocks and still occasionally carry one I wouldn't count on any government contract to be based on performance. Agree if it has issues it is probably from being altered. Government contracts go to the lowest bidder, or to meet a quota, or to make a political statement, or to influence someone, or to pad someone's pocket, etc. While I'd love to moderate your post, I won't. I'll wait for one of my Brothers to do that..... Is something offensive? I agreed with you and then offered some things besides performance that could drive government contracts. I am not making it political, claiming one side or the other. Not really sure what I said to bother you or warrant the response. You might want to provide some facts to support the sentence in bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewtac Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Personal preference, carry guns should be loose enough to go bang and cycle all ammo, like a glock. 2011 are game guns, who gives a hoot about a 50 yard guarantee when a life or death situation is 10 feet or closer. USPSA guns like 2011 should be stay in the "game" gun category, self defense guns should be loose and reliable to fire. I saw a lot of Glock "Imperfection" at a match yesterday. I think if you can't maintain a gun a loose plastic pistol might be the right choice. Most of the time if you see a Glock malfunction, it's because the shooter has modified it.......hard to blame the gun for that.I agree with RangerTrace... In fact, the FBI has awarded a contract to GLOCK to arm it's agents.While I own several glocks and still occasionally carry one I wouldn't count on any government contract to be based on performance. Agree if it has issues it is probably from being altered. Government contracts go to the lowest bidder, or to meet a quota, or to make a political statement, or to influence someone, or to pad someone's pocket, etc. While I'd love to moderate your post, I won't. I'll wait for one of my Brothers to do that.....Is something offensive? I agreed with you and then offered some things besides performance that could drive government contracts. I am not making it political, claiming one side or the other. Not really sure what I said to bother you or warrant the response.You might want to provide some facts to support the sentence in bold. Lowest bidder https://www.acquisition.gov/far/html/Subpart%2014_4.html 14.408 Award. 14.408-1 General. (a) The contracting officer shall make a contract award.... (3) to that responsible bidder whose bid, conforming to the invitation, will be most advantageous to the Government, considering only price and the price-related factors (see 14.201-8) included in the invitation. Quotas http://www.mbda.gov/main/business-certification Section 8(a) Business Development Program The section 8(a) business development program is statutorily authorized to provide a vehicle through which Federal agencies can make prime contract awards to small businesses owned and controlled by individuals certified as socially and economically disadvantaged. Influencing others and padding pockets https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying_in_the_United_States This is wiki, not a .gov like the above two, but I'd think we all can agree that the lobby industry is strong and part of our government. More examples of influence, also statements. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/11/how-governments-influence-markets.asp I would like to think my post are within the guidelines provided at http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules, I do think that your first reply about my fountain of knowledge would violate the first guideline of attitude. Under the political guidelines it states this versus that government. My intent was never to make it about politics but provide alternatives as to why federal contracts are awarded and to not base a decision on a firearm's performance due to being awarded a federal contact. I have been respectful, and polite. Please forgive me if I offended you. Perhaps this should be taken offline to PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPostman Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Our work vehicles have retreaded tires, and I guarantee they were the lowest bidded retreads lol. I was involved in a head on collision and my vehicle was driven back about 5 feet, instead of a tire drag mark the tire just crumbled like toast. I didn't know what all the black powder was from at first. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 If you have the financial means to do so, buy the most reliable, most accurate, best fitting gun you can for ccw. The absolute last thing I would look to for guidance on what gun is best for me, or a member of my family, is what gun a government agency is carrying. Many things go into the choices government agencies make regarding equipment, some have no merit at all in determining whether the gun is reliable, accurate, etc. Custom shops are not going to be considered for supply contracts calling for thousands of guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renowell Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Infinity makes some of the best guns hands down but they are out of my price range. I have been looking at the STI Costa VIP 4in as a CCW. I know it's not going to be as high quality as an Infinity but it seems like a nice alternative. Anyone have any experience with this pistol? Worth the money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 If you can afford to carry an SV, go for it. Get a well built rig to compliment it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polymerfeelsweirdman Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Infinity makes some of the best guns hands down but they are out of my price range. I have been looking at the STI Costa VIP 4in as a CCW. I know it's not going to be as high quality as an Infinity but it seems like a nice alternative. Anyone have any experience with this pistol? Worth the money? I've checked it out in a store once and it is neat but I'm not sure how it runs and I'm not a big fan of all the Costa branding on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxer1 Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Look at the SVI Tiki I think is what they called it. That is a sweet CCW gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lneel Posted July 9, 2016 Share Posted July 9, 2016 All I got to say is it does not get any better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Isn't a 2011 grip a little on the bulky side for concealed use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lneel Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Isn't a 2011 grip a little on the bulky side for concealed use? A little, but a good IWB holster with a good thick belt like a Bull Hides belt http://www.bullhidebelts.com/Black-Mechanics-Belt_p_320.htmlmakes it fine to carry. Don't get me wrong, it isn't like carrying a 7 round plastic gun but I have actually forgotten I was wearing it at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Isn't a 2011 grip a little on the bulky side for concealed use? A little, but a good IWB holster with a good thick belt like a Bull Hides belt http://www.bullhidebelts.com/Black-Mechanics-Belt_p_320.htmlmakes it fine to carry. Don't get me wrong, it isn't like carrying a 7 round plastic gun but I have actually forgotten I was wearing it at times. You know you are open carrying that little gem all the time...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fowlmouths Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 All I got to say is it does not get any better.... Love the serial number! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now