.45 acp loads with Clays

[Brand0nitis]

I'm new to reloading, and in preperation, I purchased 8lbs of Clays. After seeing it mentioned in forums all over, I figured I had better jump on it when I saw it!

I'm loading for a 6" bbl glock 21, I'm looking for advice on projectiles that cycle in my glock while using Clays.

I have win large primers, asst brass, and currently 200g coated swc, but read a little that swc's don't always run in a double stack setup. (?)

Looking for any help! Thanks a bunch!

Also, I am aiming to keep major pf.

[Jim Watson]

European guns are not always real good with semiwadcutters. But since you have some, why not try them and SHOOT THE GUN!

I found that it takes a maximum listed load of Clays to make Major in .45 ACP. Sneak up on it.

[atbarr]

Wow, I have two G21’s, I didn’t know they offered a 6”. You sure about that?

[Brand0nitis]

It's the Lone Wolf barrel and slide in 6", it's got the slide cutout, just like the 34/35, but the width is the same as the g21 slide. I found the gun at a gun show and it came with both Lone wolf barrel and slide and OEM barrel and slide. Couldn't pass it up?

[Brand0nitis]

Thanks Jim! Even with having to load at max, are you pleased with the powder? Good accuracy results as well?

[thermobollocks]

3.9 of Clays with a 230 grain round nose makes power factor with room to spare. It's well under book max for Lyman if I remember correctly, but getting close on Hodgdon. OAL is probably a factor there.

Edited June 7, 2016 by thermobollocks

[mont1120]

3.9 Clays with 230 grain Blue Bullets netted me a PF of 171.5 at Area 1. Good starting point. My minor load is 3.2 grains. OAL at 1.22 for a STI Eagle.

[Steve RA]

Try 4.2 with the 200gr bullet.

[Brand0nitis]

Try 4.2 with the 200gr bullet.

Thanks Steve! What OAL with that mix?

[Brand0nitis]

3.9 of Clays with a 230 grain round nose makes power factor with room to spare. It's well under book max for Lyman if I remember correctly, but getting close on Hodgdon. OAL is probably a factor there.

Thanks!

[Brand0nitis]

European guns are not always real good with semiwadcutters. But since you have some, why not try them and SHOOT THE GUN!

I found that it takes a maximum listed load of Clays to make Major in .45 ACP. Sneak up on it.

Thanks for the advice, I figure I'll try them out for the Glock, and if they aren't great, I'll load them for 1911.

[Steve RA]

Mine are 1.255". Do a Plunk test in your barrel to make sure whatever OAL you load yours will be OK.

[bigdawgbeav]

Every gun is different. It's my understanding that the change to a Canadian mfg. resulted in a slightly different recipe. Reports have been that the new Clays is a little slower then the old version. I found that 3.6gr. with a 225gr LTC is 170. But you have to work up the load for your gun and chrono.

Which is a good reminder that it is sanctioned match season and might be a good idea to hit the range and confirm my PF...

[thermobollocks]

The gun, the altitude, and all that other happy crap, I imagine. At 6500 feet, I have to use more boomflakes.

[Husker95]

Clays is the bomb diggety for 45 acp. I load about 3.8 @ 1.250 with a 230 coated bullet and its like riding a waterbed - nice and soft.

[Brand0nitis]

Clays is the bomb diggety for 45 acp. I load about 3.8 @ 1.250 with a 230 coated bullet and its like riding a waterbed - nice and soft.

Very nice. I'm looking forward to working it up! Still haven't set up the reloading bench!

[ruleyoutoo1911]

Clays is the bomb diggety for 45 acp. I load about 3.8 @ 1.250 with a 230 coated bullet and its like riding a waterbed - nice and soft.

I ended up with 3.8 also for 230 gr loads at 1.255 and 4.0 with 200 gr SWC loaded at 1.235 OAL with Clays.

Those seemed to be the most accurate with both out of my gun but haven't had a chance to chrono them yet.

Mine was with the newer Canadian Clays.

[Steve RA]

Here is my loading data - with the Australian Clays.

Here is a 25 Yard group with the 4.2 gr load with the 200gr LSWC. Shot off a bench with a carpet covered length of 4"x4" for a rest.

[TDA]

Steve,

Are you resting the muzzle or your hands on the 4x4?

[Steve RA]

Underside of frame from trigger guard forward.

Forgot to add in above post that the velocities at the bottom of chart were with the 5" Taurus.

[mlm]

For Sh & Grins you could try 200 gr SWC with 4.1 gr of Clays with an OAL of 1.245-1.250

I run these in my 1911's.

Mike

[78Staff]

On 6/8/2016 at 1:24 PM, Husker95 said:

Clays is the bomb diggety for 45 acp. I load about 3.8 @ 1.250 with a 230 coated bullet and its like riding a waterbed - nice and soft.

I like this load as well, I just did some load development and 3.8 with 230gr LRN was pleasure to shoot and crazy accurate.  Upping it to 4.0 brings up the snap slightly but still stays accurate.

I also worked up some WST and 200 coated LSWC and really didn't find a bad combo, 4.3 was soft and accurate, 4.8 got a little snappy and groups opened up a bit as well.

Currently just worked up some BE loads for 200 coated LSWC, but BE recipes are pretty well known, 3.5-3.8 with lighter springs, 4.0-50 with standard springs, I've got 4.0, 4.3, 4.6, and 5.0 worked up and ready for some range time tomorrow.

All above assumes 5" barrel, shorter barrels ie 3" Defender you may need to lean on the higher end for reliable function due to more finicky action

[noylj]

Canadian Clays is not EXACTLY the same as Australian Clays, so I would probably drop the start load by 0.2gn just because I am not sure of the difference (just like I do with any new lot number of powder).

I would NOT recommend Clays, N310, or TiteGroup for a new reloader--they are known for pressure spikes.

For a new reloader, I would recommend they learn reloading first by loading jacketed bullets with "common" powders for the cartridge and using purchased ammo until they really know what they are doing. I know I rub some the wrong way, but those three powders are the ONLY powders that have given me problems and they all gave me problems in .45 Auto, .38 Spl, and 9x19. Just saying, I would prefer a more "stable" powder for a complete new reloader to "cut their teeth" on. 

Your Clays will still be there in 1-6 months and you'll have better knowledge of the process of loading and load work-up.

The first thing to do, if you have the SWC bullets, is load a couple of inert (no powder or primer) dummy rounds to test feeding chambering and establish a COL that works. This way, you will know quickly if the bullet will even work with your magazine and your barrel. If not, I am sure someone will buy them.

Per Ramshot:

"SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH “COL”

It is important to note that the SAAMI “COL” values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only. 

The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination. 

This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as

1) magazine length (space),

2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,

3) ogive or profile of the projectile and

4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.

• Always begin loading at the minimum ‘Start Load.’"

 

 

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel (chamber and throat dimensions) and your gun (feed ramp) and your magazine (COL that fits magazine and when the magazine lips release the round for feeding) and the PARTICULAR bullet you are using. What worked in a pressure barrel or the lab's gun or in my gun has very little to do with what will work best in your gun.

Take the barrel out of the gun. Create two inert dummy rounds (no powder or primer) at max COL and remove enough case mouth flare for rounds to chamber (you can achieve this by using a sized case—expand-and-flare it, and remove the flare just until the case "plunks" in the barrel).

Drop the inert rounds in and decrease the COL until they chamber completely. This will be your "max" effective COL. I prefer to have the case head flush with the barrel hood. After this, place the inert rounds in the magazine and be sure they fit the magazine and feed and chamber.

You can also do this for any chambering problems you have. Remove the barrel and drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) scratches on bullet--COL is too long

2) scratches on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) scratches just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) scratches on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) scratches on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

[pskys2]

On 6/8/2016 at 9:26 AM, bigdawgbeav said:

Every gun is different. It's my understanding that the change to a Canadian mfg. resulted in a slightly different recipe. Reports have been that the new Clays is a little slower then the old version. I found that 3.6gr. with a 225gr LTC is 170. But you have to work up the load for your gun and chrono.

Which is a good reminder that it is sanctioned match season and might be a good idea to hit the range and confirm my PF...

I noticed many years ago that I had to up my clays loads in 45.  Used to make PF with 4.2 now it's 4.6.

With a 6" barrel, assuming it's rifled not polygonal like the factory glock barrels, 4.2 and a coated 200 swc might be the ticket.  If it is polygonal you can drop another .10.

[mlm]

I run 4.2 with a 200 SWC bayou bullet at 1.245 at 172.4 PF out of a 5" 1911 government model. Same load in my MAC 3011 5" double stack runs 172.5 PF. So it works for me.

IMVHO

Mike