.45 acp loads with Clays

[gigamortis]

I thought I was in heaven a couple weeks ago when I found 4 pounds of Clays on a LGS shelf since I haven't seen any at all for a couple of years. I came home and loaded up a few test rounds of my old reliable load of 3.8gr behind a Bayou 230 RN.  To my disappointment, a 5 round average only came out to 670fps. I used to get 740fps with the old Australian Clays.  I went up to book max of 4.0gr and only got 705fps average. Not enough for major at all. On top of that, metering consistency was way off at +/- .2gr.  For the old formula Clays through the same powder measure. +/- .1gr was the norm. For me, this new Canadian Clays is definitely not the same. 

[VanMan1961]

On 11/17/2016 at 8:18 PM, gigamortis said:

I thought I was in heaven a couple weeks ago when I found 4 pounds of Clays on a LGS shelf since I haven't seen any at all for a couple of years. I came home and loaded up a few test rounds of my old reliable load of 3.8gr behind a Bayou 230 RN.  To my disappointment, a 5 round average only came out to 670fps. I used to get 740fps with the old Australian Clays.  I went up to book max of 4.0gr and only got 705fps average. Not enough for major at all. On top of that, metering consistency was way off at +/- .2gr.  For the old formula Clays through the same powder measure. +/- .1gr was the norm. For me, this new Canadian Clays is definitely not the same. 

Do they still sell the old formula Clays?  If I stumble upon some at a LGS, are the markings different so I can spot the difference?

[Steve RA]

I'm sure there is some for sale somewhere.  I've only got the Australian version so don't know what the new version looks like or what the packaging looks like.

[gigamortis]

It will state made in Canada on the label if it is the new stuff.  The four 1lb bottles that I tried were all labeled as made in Canada.

 

As my search for a worthy Clays substitute went on, I tried some Accurate Nitro 100 NF.  The powder kernels are half the size of Clays so it meters very consistently.  With 3.5 gr of Nitro 100 behind a 230 Bayou, a 5 shot average runs 740 fps in my 5" Kimber.  The load chart tops out at 4.0 gr, so there is plenty of headroom.  Just as soft shooting as Clays if not softer.  I have another post on this forum about this powder.

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by gigamortis

[pskys2]

Alliant Clay Dot is supposed to be the same.  I've found it throws lighter charges, 5.2 clays vs 5.0 clay dot same Dillon powder measure just cleaned out and changed powder 2.7 clays vs 2.6 clay dot same scenario.  Velocities in a 45 acp were 10 f/s less and in a 38 short colt was 750 f/s at 2.6 clay dot vs 800 f/s at 2.75 clays.

[9x45]

Clays is a hot powder, just be careful with 230gr bullets. A small difference in charge weight can result in a great difference in pressure, which you can't measure, but rather look for signs of over pressure on the case.

[bigdawgbeav]

Got out to the range over the weekend to do a quick check of the new Canadian Clays over the chrono.  Wasn't as bad as I was thinking it would be.

Details:  46 degrees, overcast; only 5 rounds of each weight were shot (small sample);  charges manually weighed (but I'm not perfect... methinks there was an outlier in the 3.8); measured with a ProChrono Digital.

Brass: Mixed; Primers: Winchester; Bullets: 225gr. TC "PC Bullets" from King Shooters (#purplepapereaters)

Conclusion:  The new Canadian Clays is a little slower, but not over the top.  Currently running at 3.6/3.7 of the old formula and that chronos good everytime.  Looking at the numbers below, keeping in the 3.7/3.8, we are more than good.  Keep in mind, it was chilly out when running these rounds.  In the summer, the velocity should pick up a little bit.  Planning on running a larger sample when I get the chance.

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by bigdawgbeav

[78Staff]

On 11/28/2016 at 11:00 AM, bigdawgbeav said:

Got out to the range over the weekend to do a quick check of the new Canadian Clays over the chrono.  Wasn't as bad as I was thinking it would be.

Details:  46 degrees, overcast; only 5 rounds of each weight were shot (small sample);  charges manually weighed (but I'm not perfect... methinks there was an outlier in the 3.8); measured with a ProChrono Digital.

Brass: Mixed; Primers: Winchester; Bullets: 225gr. TC "PC Bullets" from King Shooters (#purplepapereaters)

Conclusion:  The new Canadian Clays is a little slower, but not over the top.  Currently running at 3.6/3.7 of the old formula and that chronos good everytime.  Looking at the numbers below, keeping in the 3.7/3.8, we are more than good.  Keep in mind, it was chilly out when running these rounds.  In the summer, the velocity should pick up a little bit.  Planning on running a larger sample when I get the chance.

 

 

I worked up a similar test and got to shoot them yesterday - similar to you only 5 rounds of each so a small sample.

200gr LRNFP
Federal Case 1x fired
WLP Primer
Clays 4.0 (individually wieghed/trickled, not dropped from a PM)
1.2 OAL  (In retrospect, I believe I should have pushed these down a bit more in OAL, hard to find good data on FP's - but I expected more velocity from both). 
Temp 54* F
DW Valor 1911 5"

Australian Clays:
5 shot Avg 756
ES 12 
SD 4

Canadian Clays:
5 shot Avg 684
ES 60
SD 25

So, pretty dramatic (imo) reduction in velocity and consistency between the two versions of Clays for the same load.  Some of this could be chalked up two lot differences as well, I suppose in addition to the manufacturing difference, but it's still a bit disappointing.  Even though I'm not chasing speed I was surprised at the difference.  Also, for general info I noticed the Canadian Clays had some lighter color flakes as compared to Australian, and it seemed to be a bit "denser", ie 4.0g of Canadian Clays had less volume than 4.0 of Australian.

Anyway, not the end of the world, but something to take into account.  I may try it again with some 230 LRN or 200 LWC's with better OAL and do some ladder loads of the newer to get some better idea of what it will do.