blacklab Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm thinking about puting together a 1911 in .22lr for steel challenge. I'd like to set it up the same way as my 1911 9mm and my 2011 9mm. Both have a Nitro Fin slide stop/thumb rest and a Gun site lowered thumb safety witha C-more slide ride. Does anyone know what make 1911 .22 uses standard 1911 parts and is reliable? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 GSG makes 1911 22LR clones under their name and they also make them for Sig Sauer. I don't know about the compatibility with true 1911 parts but the last GSG 1911 I owned was very accurate and functioned flawlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemooncricket Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Ever considered a conversion kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) That's the way I have gone Blue. Kimber conversion for me Edited January 30, 2016 by terrydoc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 That's what I would do if I wanted a 1911 22LR pistol. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I am doing. I'm two months into the wait for a .4' - .499" accuracy guaranteed conversion unit (with Eley target or CCI Standard ammo) from Marvel Precision for my custom 1911. If you use a one-piece guide rod, the 45 (or 9mm) upper comes off as one piece and the conversion unit installs in about 45 seconds. Order the next heavier recoil spring if you want to shoot MimiMags to work a comp. If you go the GSG route, you really will have to upgrade almost all of it using CW Accessories parts to get the consistency and accuracy you want. If you don't, every time you take the gun apart to clan it, you have to rezero, because you tightened the barrel a different amount. Another advantage of putting a conversion unit on is you get the exact same feel of the grip, trigger pull, etc. as you do shooting 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 I like the idea of a conversion unit, but I know nothing about them. I know there are several companies that make them. Does one clip fit all makes or does each make have there own clip. How hard are clips to get? How hard are repair parts to get for each make? Could I tune the 1911 lower to my liking? I shoot a 2 1/2lbs trigger now, would that work with a conversion kit? Sorry for so many questions, I just want to get it right the first time. My thought train was if I bought a production gun, parts would be easy to get. But I really like the idea of building one exactly the way I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 building a .22 conv using tacsol upper on a 1911 frame. threaded barrel for a can is nice feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) blacklab, there are several conversion kits out there. Some you want to stay away from like the plague. The Ciener and the Kimber come to mind. The first one commercially available and designed by Bob Marvel is the Unit One from Marvel Precision. They subsequently made changes (for the better) to Bob's design, and they parted ways. Bob marvel later hooked up with Advantage Arms. He later designed a different (but quite similar design) and was going to call it the Pro or Pro2. He decided not to produce it himself and teamed with Nighthawk Custom, who sold it as a stand alone conversion unit, or atop a fully custom 1911. That same unit is now being produced by Nelson Custom Guns. There are compatibility issues with conversion units. Some manufacturers, such as Sig 1911s cannot work unless you modify or replace parts. The TacSol is a nice unit, but it only available in short barrels and is not as accurate as some others. You have two basic choices when it comes to 22LR conversion units. The most accurate type slides on the frame an is locked in. Only a portion of the slide moves. The rest of the slide, the barrel and the sights stay stationary. You can get accuracy down to 1/3" @ 50 yards with this type barrel. The second type works just like a 1911 slide, everything mores back under recoil. The accuracy of these can be good, but a lot depends on slide to frame fit. On the first type, slide to frame fit does not matter at all. The biggest problems with conversion units are with disconnectors, ejectors and mag catches/mags. Disconnectors. Make sure yours is smooth on top and preferably rounded. Sharp angles and protruding too far slow the slide and mess things up. The ejector, If using an existing frame for another caliber, must clear the reciprocating portion of the slide. You would be surprised at how many do not without modification. Also, you can forget about all the oversized ejectors designed to minimize the gaps in the rear of the slide. Absolutely won't work. You want a standard sized, normal, thin ejector. You can modify any ejector to work. However, if you are building a lower just for the conversion, just don't put an ejector in in the first place. Mag catches and magazines. I tried a Nelson Custom conversion, but had to send it back. The mags were designed to "normal" GI specs, which meant they would not work properly with catches designed to hold the mags higher in the gun. His mags had to be modified, and still would not feed reliably. Brownells recently came out with a 22LR mag for 1911 pistols. It's around $20 and works with almost everything. It is easy to disassemble, loads easily, and locks the slide back when empty. In case this helps you, here is my build (or will be when all the parts get here). JEM frame "kit" including 1911 steel frame, JEM MSH w/magwell and JEM GS. JEM because he makes the most consistent and in-spec affordable frames around. His MSH and GS because they are so closely fit you can blend with an Emory strip. All the other parts are EGW Billet or bar stock parts. The upper is the Marvel Precision Unit One Lockback with the optional $50 .400" to .499" average accuracy @ 50 yards with Eley target or CCI Standard ammo guarantee. If the unit One slides onto your frame rails (if JEM it will), you don't even have to finish them. As far as trigger weight goes, using good ignition parts such as C&S or EGW, you can get a crisp, safe, durable 2lb trigger. I do than on my custom 1911s in 45ACP, but have subsequently gone back to 2.25lb. BTW, if you live in a State that permits threaded barrels, you can order one from Marvel Precision. Otherwise, consider using their comp. It attaches directly to the end of the barrel on the part that looks like a thread protector, and is retained by a screw. You can modify other comps to attach in the same manner. Edited January 31, 2016 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcd19 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 what i did, and what i would do again in a heartbeat, was build a dedicated 22 lower. it eliminates the questionable quality of parts, having to switch a bunch of things around, etc., while also providing a consistent configuration for 22 and 22 alone. What I ultimately found was that I had to try a variety of mainspring weights [settled at 18#, i believe] to find the balance between cycling reliably and setting off a wide variety of ammo. The other adjustment I had to make was to accommodate last-round hold open on the mag release.. i relieved the point where the plunger makes contact to allow it to travel upward more freely, using this photo as a general reference.. I believe this was on a thread on here, or maybe ar15.com at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 zzt I was looking up some of the companies on the net. Marvel precision and Tacsol look promising. But they are almost twice the price of a Kimber. What makes them so much better? You also said that brownells has a .22 1911 mag. Does that work with the Marvel? Again, there almost half the price of the Marvel mags. All of this would be on a dedicated lower. I have my eye on a Springfield stainless steel lower that is used. Or would I be better off starting off with a virgin JEM frame. I'm like most people, I have to watch my monies but I want a reliable pistol. If I'm looking at this right it's going to be about a $1000 to $1200 project. Does that sound about right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sg1911 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I have a kimber conversion that I bought about 10 years ago that have been very reliable if using good quality 22 ammo. Biggest neg itave conserning the kimber is that it is not designed to lock back after the last shot. The brownell mags will lock the slide back after the last shot . I also have a nelson conversion. It is more accurate than the kimber and is and does lock back on an empty magazine. I have used both on kimber, ruger, sig, and rock island recievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I found a Kimber in 22 and built it for my son. The gun is so lite that is un-real, almost toy like. Clark Custom checkered it for me and I changed out some parts. It turned out very nice. Any kid could shoot it and a experienced shooter could make it sing on steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 The Kimber is a lot cheaper, and I don't really need to be super accurate for steel. But I don't want to be chasing problems all the time ether. Not sure what way to go at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansedgli Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) I've got a tactical solutions kit which I think is pretty accurate. I shot a few 2 inch groups offhand at 25 yards today. I'm not sure how it goes at 50, I don't shoot anything that requires it. Seems to work best with CCI minimags but I haven't tried anything else for quite some time. I bought some regular ammo today to test out for next weekend now that it's worn in a bit. The best part is that it works on my match STI trojan without changing anything and takes about 20 seconds to swap over. Remove slide stop, standard slide then reverse to install. It won't work with an extended 9mm ejector so that had to be cut down when I used it on my old edge which wasn't a big deal. Edited January 31, 2016 by dansedgli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earplug Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I won a STI frame coupon and built a dedicated lower for the Marvel I already owned. I don't know if the Marvel is the best Steel tool, but I'd get a dedicated lower to go with any conversion.you plan to buy. The Marvel slide is alloy and I had my STI frame Electroless Nickle plated. This was a good idea to prevent galling and wear. I use old Colt ACE magazines and a couple of the Brownells magazines. I use the gun mostly for Bullseye. I seldom shoot 22LR at Steel now due to lack of cheap ammo I know will run with my conversion. The slide does not lock back on the last round which might be a issue. Marvel customer service has been good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The Kimber is all aluminium , frame and slide, which makes for a very, very lite pistol. May be to lite for some folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 GSG makes 1911 22LR clones under their name and they also make them for Sig Sauer. I don't know about the compatibility with true 1911 parts but the last GSG 1911 I owned was very accurate and functioned flawlessly. Do Not Dryfire it! The firing pin is a crappy stamped sheet metal piece. I was just trying to get used to it and it snapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemooncricket Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Also, the Kimber has an aluminum breech face. It will wear out. Ask me how I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Bob, just buy a Ruger 22/45 and be done with it. You can buy 2 Rugers for what you will put into building a .22 1911. There is a reason why the majority of people shooting 22s at matches are shooting factory guns like Rugers or Buckmarks....because they run. I can send you to about 5 different people who spend tons of money building high end 22s out of 1911s and 2011s and eventually went back to a Ruger because they couldn't depend on the "built" guns in a competition. Ruger mags are cheap, and parts are plentiful. Come borrow my 22/45 and shoot it. Then head over to Anthony's shop and order a 22/45 and then slap a Volquartsen trigger kit in and and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 blacklab, the Brownells mags work with the Marvel Precision Unit 1. They also work with the Nelson. There is nothing wrong with a Springfield SS lower. You will probably want to change over the ILS to conventional and use a weaker mainspring. I use an ISMI 19lb spring, but the C&S 18lb one works as well. That will improve the trigger quite a bit, but it won't get you the 2.5lb trigger you are looking for. I'd just replace the entire ignition group with something from EGW or Harrison Design. If HD, go with the True Radius sear kit. The Marvel and Nelson are better because they lock everything except the reciprocation portion of the slide to the frame. They are considerably more accurate. The Kmiber is a tinker toy. You cannot change out the recoil spring, so you are stuck using high velocity ammo only. If you want to spend less money, consider the Marvel Precision Unit 2 or the Advantage Arms. you will pay less money, but spend additional to get a dot mounted. If you like the look of the CW Accessories slides, you can have them build you one custom. He uses some of the original GSG 1911 parts, but most of them are his. He is even going to make his own barrels. Look here http://www.cwaccessories.com/down at the bottom of the page. Some of the slides have a built-in platform for mounting a red dot. I toyed with the idea of having him build one for me. If memory serves, he quoted about $400 shipped. I decided against it only because I intend to use this new rig for bullseye shooting as well, and I needed better than 1" accuracy at 25 yards. However, that is plenty good enough for steel. If interested, give Chet a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Bob, I don't know what you are talking about. Everyone I know who shoots a conversion unit has zero trouble with it. The five people you know with problems are a mystery, and probably ammo related. Or, they are using one of the know problem frames and have not changed out some components. Really, it takes no extra effort to build a first class 1911 22. I went the Ruger route. In fact I went with a Volquartsen Scorpion. Not race ready, so I sold it. I now have a fully custom Buckmark based Open gun that is accurate, reliable and has a beautifully crisp 2lb trigger. All told it cost $1000 to get it that way. There is one advantage to a 1911 based 22 that cannot be matched with a Ruger or Buckmark based pistol. That is lightning fast mag changes, especially if you have a magwell. If you start with a 2011 frame, you can throw the mag in from across the room. That won't help th OP, because he will be shooting SC, but all the other competitions I shoot with a 22 require it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklab Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Scott, I shot Bill's 22/45 a few times and they are nice, but they don't have the same feel as a 1911. I use the slide stop and thumb safety as anchor points so my grip is always constant on my 1911.( Its probably not the right way but it seems to work for me.) I don't see any way to add a thumb rest on a 22/45 or I would consider it. zzt, I was looking at the unit 2, the 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" groups should be fine for what I want to do. The C-more would be mounted on the frame with a STI mount so that's not a concern, I would like to keep everything as close to my 9mm as possible. Sounds like for the extra $125.00 more then the Kimber it would be worth it. I'm not too worried about fast reloads. It's a bad thing when you hear "nice reload" when shooting steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Go with the Nelson Coversion Kit. Great people to work with and the mags are reasonably priced. Definitely not as cheap as a Kimber but you get what you pay for in this case. I've had mine for a year and absolutely love it. Bought the railed top end and mounted a PA micro red dot tp place ontop of my 2011. Zero issues and swapping out my top ends only takes a minute or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Dedmon Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Marvel Precision Unit 1 conversion unit with a left side scope mount and a C-More. Will work on 1911 or 2011. The only difference is the magazines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Scott, I shot Bill's 22/45 a few times and they are nice, but they don't have the same feel as a 1911. I use the slide stop and thumb safety as anchor points so my grip is always constant on my 1911.( Its probably not the right way but it seems to work for me.) I don't see any way to add a thumb rest on a 22/45 or I would consider it. zzt, I was looking at the unit 2, the 1 1/2" to 2 1/2" groups should be fine for what I want to do. The C-more would be mounted on the frame with a STI mount so that's not a concern, I would like to keep everything as close to my 9mm as possible. Sounds like for the extra $125.00 more then the Kimber it would be worth it. I'm not too worried about fast reloads. It's a bad thing when you hear "nice reload" when shooting steel. I run a thumb rest on my 22/45 so it is the same placement as my 2011 open gun. Works great. I have thought about trying one of the RIA XT TAC 22s. I handled one at a local shop and the feel pretty nice. Would like to know if the trigger parts are the same as a 1911 so a good trigger job can be done. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_876/products_id/718003569 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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