How to monitor progress in a small division

[StraightSh00ter]

I started shooting way back in July/August in Single Stack (minor), which is a pretty small division. I really like my gun and want to learn stage planning and reloading skills so my plan is to stay in SS through next year. I am curious what I can do to monitor my progress, and how to figure out what I should be working on to see improvement - in other words, how to figure out what might be slowing me down the most.

Production shoots a similar game, so I generally try to see how I place against those shooters. But I guess I'm not sure how the correlation works since points (and I assume hit factor?) are scaled to the winner of each division. Does it makes sense to look at match points with scaled scoring? Is Minor SS scoring scaled 1:1 with Production?

For example, last match I finished:

28/38 overall

1/2 SS division

4/6 if I compare to production (edited this - mistakenly had 6/6)

3/8 Unclassified

8/11 if I were to count myself in Class C.

Comparing hit factors for the 5 stages (1st place production/Mine):

(4.76/3.5), (6.71/4.6), (5.7/3.7), (4.8/4.0), (5.1/2.8)

But results from 1 match does nothing for monitoring progress or improvement, and I'm not sure what part of that data I should be watching.

Fortunately or unfortunately I love my 1911 and don't want anything on the Production list, and it will take some work and time to earn the reward of buying and shooting a 2011 in Limited, if I decide I want more competition.

...And this was supposed to be just a fun way to get out and shoot a pistol! Luckily I am having an absolute blast with all this - and for that I thank Brian and the members of this forum

Edited November 12, 2015 by StraightSh00ter

[cnote]

Overall standings, compare where u finish over time

[aandabooks]

Keep with the SS. Looks like you're parsing the data quite a few different ways. Maybe competition in SS will pickup some and when you start beating most of the Production guys and knocking off several of the Limited/Open guys you'll know you are progressing.

We've got a SS guy that shows up at my local club occasionally and it is not unusual for him to win the whole match. It can be done with the 1911 even if you don't have much direct competition.

[eric4069]

Keep with the SS. Looks like you're parsing the data quite a few different ways. Maybe competition in SS will pickup some and when you start beating most of the Production guys and knocking off several of the Limited/Open guys you'll know you are progressing.

+1

Eric

[jkrispies]

Keep with the SS. Looks like you're parsing the data quite a few different ways. Maybe competition in SS will pickup some and when you start beating most of the Production guys and knocking off several of the Limited/Open guys you'll know you are progressing.

+1

Eric

+ another 1.

Does your club run classifiers? That would be another measurement, though in my opinion it's typically more a measurement of static skills performance more than dynamic match performance, if that makes sense.

Try to analyze your performance beyond what may show on the simple score sheet and determine your growth off those factors as well. Comparing your overall placement from month to month is problematic because different shooters compete every month, and then there's equipment issues that don't necessarily show in the final printout. Last month I beat an M, until I realized that he DNF'ed a stage for a reason unknown to me, so did I really out shoot him, or was it just a win on paper?

On the other hand, if you self-analyze and find yourself dropping lots of points to mikes, for instance, then set a goal that is based in a solution to the problem (front sight focus, say) and concentrate on the proper technique with a measured goal to shoot a full match with no more than three mikes, then two mikes, then one mike, then no mikes. That is a measurement based on technique but removed from "I placed X overall" that is still based in positive, measurable growth which will benefit your long term game. Once you have that down, amongst a hundred other things, then start worrying about how you're placing in the overall.

Edited November 11, 2015 by jkrispies

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'd keep comparing my results (time and accuracy) to the Production group -

lot of similarities (some differences, but LOTS of similarities). Are you

losing points more on accuracy or time?

I usually pick a few shooters who seem to be near my results, and then

analyze their time and accuracy vs mine.

When you start shooting major matches, you can then compare yourself

to The Leader in SS.

But, on a week to week basis, look at times and points of the Prod people

or a handful of individuals.

[StraightSh00ter]

Doesn't comparing match scores get influenced by division? In other words, if one week there are 25 Limited and 15 Production, and the next week 25 Production and 15 Limited, wouldn't you expect the average Production/SS score to be higher up the list the second week?

Responding to some of the comments/questions above, speed is affecting my score much more than accuracy. I expect that though - being relatively new I'm still figuring out what kind of strategies work better, and it takes me a long time to come up with a stage plan, sometimes not until just before I'm ready to shoot. Add thoughts about muzzle control and trigger safety to the mix and I'm at maybe 50%-70% speed just trying to make sure I'm safe and engaging all the targets. Speed is getting faster with time, but then I realize I need to balance accuracy with speed also. But that will all come with time I think.

What I've gathered from all this is that my scoring is the same as Production so I shouldn't worry about the points I lose shooting minor- that shouldn't impact my placement against Production.

Edited November 12, 2015 by StraightSh00ter

[NoSteel]

Compare your percentage of 100% of the possible score each week and see if your improving... That is really what matters, right??? That and having fun....

[motosapiens]

Compare your percentage of 100% of the possible score each week and see if your improving... That is really what matters, right??? That and having fun....

yep, that's what I do. Try to get closer to the overall winners. Division doesn't really matter that much for comparison purposes, as long as you are comparing yourself to the same people each match.

[jkrispies]

Compare your percentage of 100% of the possible score each week and see if your improving... That is really what matters, right??? That and having fun....

yep, that's what I do. Try to get closer to the overall winners. Division doesn't really matter that much for comparison purposes, as long as you are comparing yourself to the same people each match.

Bear in mind that 100% of the match is relative to who your overall winner is. I'm fortunate with my local range to have several world class GM's who typically shoot the match, so my match's 100% is very close (if not exactly) what a national 100% would be. If your best shooter one month is GM and the next month is an A, then you'll have too many variables if using the overall is your constant. As others have mentioned, pick 1-3 shooters who attend every match you attend and make them your constant. By choosing several it allows you to make adjustments if one of them has an unusually good or bad match.

[motosapiens]

Compare your percentage of 100% of the possible score each week and see if your improving... That is really what matters, right??? That and having fun....

yep, that's what I do. Try to get closer to the overall winners. Division doesn't really matter that much for comparison purposes, as long as you are comparing yourself to the same people each match.

Bear in mind that 100% of the match is relative to who your overall winner is. I'm fortunate with my local range to have several world class GM's who typically shoot the match, so my match's 100% is very close (if not exactly) what a national 100% would be. If your best shooter one month is GM and the next month is an A, then you'll have too many variables if using the overall is your constant. As others have mentioned, pick 1-3 shooters who attend every match you attend and make them your constant. By choosing several it allows you to make adjustments if one of them has an unusually good or bad match.

this is a valid point but with numerous M level limited and open shooters, it's usually pretty close at the top in our matches, so it's reasonable to look at the overall winner. If max comes to shoot our match and wins, well yeah, that would screw with the data.

I pretty much keep track of EVERYONE who is usually ahead of me, or usually close behind, or usually pretty even.

[sundevil827]

I'm about to take the plunge into SS (minor) in January, in large part because I don't want to shoot Limited Minor, as I just purchased a 2011 set-up for 3-Gun, but I want to keep the similar feel, and I want to improve, not just squirt bullets (that's at least what I suspect I would do....). I want to get better, and improve my fundamental skills, and having to care about each shot like it did when I was in Production helps me focus. (That's just me, not everyone....)

That said, when I was considering SS, I wanted a better way to measure myself especially since SS is a much smaller populated division. The advice I was given, like you, is to compare myself to the Production shooters, but to keep an eye on times on each stage, as well as hits. Sure those are wrapped into hit factor, but since stage plans should be almost exactly the same, I want to run times that would equate to same level Production shooters, as well as have equal hits. While I'm directly competing against any SS-Major shooters, I've got a whole 'nother pool of people to help me measure my progress, especially since they are playing the game the same way I am, and slightly differently than the SS-Major shooters are.

Overall Hit Factor is great, but take a hard look at time and hits with people who are equally classed in Production, and use that as a starting point. See where you are gaining, or losing, is it on speed or accuracy? It's at least a place to start finding where you can improve.

[rowdyb]

Yep, you're already headed there. It's in the data primarily. Video is nice too. As time progresses you will hopefully see yourself on film moving faster, being more accurate, executing your stage plan. Just looking the part of a better shooter than when you started. This can also be really good for your moral, confidence and self image. It's easier to visualize yourself doing well when you have concrete examples to draw from.

If you're not winning your division locally every match then you have a data point to compare to, the person who is winning. Do like others here have pointed out and look at all the data, compare it with how you feel/felt to see where you might have some incongruity in how you assess yourself.

I look at and compare to the division winner:

-what percentage of A's did I shoot

-what was my total time

-what were my stage finishes within the division

-did i have any misses, no shoots, procedurals

-did i make a blatant unforced error, totally blow my stage plan

-was i tired? thirsty? sun burned? happy? focused? injured? what did i bring to the match as a person

-how did i shoot the classifier

-how does this data compare to other data historically? when i first started shooting competitively, although it was idpa, i made a simple excel spread sheet to put all this data into and compare over time. was i finishing higher or lower compared to the field now versus 6 months ago? was I faster or slower compared to the winner 6 months ago? don't get wrapped around the axle on the data but......

if you aren't using an objective measure of things you're just guessing. and if you don't know it's hard to know if you're really improving or not. you wouldn't train without a timer. you wouldn't reload without a chrono. why assess your performance based off of just a feeling? use data.

[Nickb45]

At my local matches I am the only SS shooter, not a lot of production shooters. I usually compare my scores to a few guys in limited.

When I go to the other side of the state, I have a few other limited guys I compare my score to.

I don't get wrapped up in ANY of this at the matches. When I'm at the match I can only control my process, so I don't worry about the score. The process is what it's all about, the score will work itself out.

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Edited December 1, 2015 by Nickb45

[rowdyb]

Yikes! A division with just one shooter? That's not revolver? Does your local match have less than a dozen people attend it?

But you touch on a different thing that I think is important. When you're shooting, shoot! At the match is not the time to be doing this analysis.

From one of my favorite books, Mind Gym, "Focus on actions, not outcomes."

[StraightSh00ter]

I agree, thank goodness the scores are not posted at matches!

Someone brought up measuring yourself (myself) against shooters in the same class (Production or SS). That sounds like a good idea to me. I have a habit of making things hard on myself - I'm not even classified and am comparing my scores to both C shooters and division leaders. It will be good to see where I classify (I imagine C, but who knows).

[Nickb45]

Yikes! A division with just one shooter? That's not revolver? Does your local match have less than a dozen people attend it?

But you touch on a different thing that I think is important. When you're shooting, shoot! At the match is not the time to be doing this analysis.

From one of my favorite books, Mind Gym, "Focus on actions, not outcomes."

We have anywhere from 30-50 shooters at my home range. A lot of the same people at a range an hour away, where I'm still the only SS shooter. I have to drive 3 hours to shoot with 3-4 other SS shooters. I guess it's just not a popular division up here in Washington.

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[Nimitz]

We typically got around 45 shooters at our monthly match and I never saw a match where we had more than 2 SS shooters ....

[rowdyb]

Guess things aren't as crappy as one would imagine in gun hating California. Matches every weekend, not just monthly, if not two matches (just talking uspsa) some weeks. And 40 people would be a small match and even then there would be more than 1 SS guy or girl.

Sorry to get off topic. I still vote for having two 9mm 1911 for SS as that's what you're already invested in. My vote will pretty much always be pick what you can get two of for competition. One is none, two is one and three is better.

[tha1000]

Guess things aren't as crappy as one would imagine in gun hating California. Matches every weekend, not just monthly, if not two matches (just talking uspsa) some weeks. And 40 people would be a small match and even then there would be more than 1 SS guy or girl.

Sorry to get off topic. I still vote for having two 9mm 1911 for SS as that's what you're already invested in. My vote will pretty much always be pick what you can get two of for competition. One is none, two is one and three is better.

Might be that the barriers to entry are lower for Single Stack in Cali than tracking down everything needed for a limited gun. Dunno.

[rowdyb]

IDK.... Limited or Open are always the divisions with the most people. At least here in southern CA. Sorry for thread jack. I wish the OP had more people in his division.

[StraightSh00ter]

Sorry for thread jack. I wish the OP had more people in his division.

Me too, then I could stop thinking about a 2011

On a similar tangent, I'm going to be applying for jobs in Hawaii which has a 10rd capacity limit. I still noticed they shoot L10 and Limited, but would think the Limited division is only limited to 10rds?

[pointerman1967]

Yup. Club I shoot at here in CA caps the match at 90 shooters because they were running out of daylight without the cap. No one outside of CA believes me when I say we get 10-12 L10 shooters each match. The article in last month's magazine about possibly getting rid of L10 about gave me a heart attack. It is the only division I have shot over the last two years.

[EricG]

Limited 10 Nationals only had a total of 82 shooters this year.