dervin Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 has anyone tried small rifle primer instead of small pistol primers and what would be the difference if any thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Just about anyone shooting major in a 9mm or 38 super variant uses small rifle primers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dervin Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 so 40 would be good to then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 has anyone tried small rifle primer instead of small pistol primers and what would be the difference if any thanks Back during the shortage of 2008, I picked up some Federal small pistol magnum primers. It led to breech face erosion on my limited gun and my .40 open gun. I have seen the same issue on 9 major open guns using SRPs. I use small pistol primers for 9 major and I have never seen any "pressure" signs. My personal (and not scientifically backed) opinion is that the use of SRP for open is an artifact back from the days when the min PF was 175 and folks were loading into the 180's. My Winchester SPP have never shown me any reason to change. If you do try SRPs, keep an eye on the breech face. The SRPs may not seal properly at the lower pistol pressures. Or they might... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I use them interchangeably with SPP in my many guns, never seen any ill effects, except that some guns might require two strikes due to the primer's extra hardness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I use them interchangeably with SPP in my many guns, never seen any ill effects, except that some guns might require two strikes due to the primer's extra hardness. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I use them interchangeably with SPP in my many guns, never seen any ill effects, except that some guns might require two strikes due to the primer's extra hardness. An extended firing pin is cheap insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 25K plus of srp with out any problems in both 40 and 9 minor If you got'm, shoot'm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsauerfan Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I use them interchangeably with SPP in my many guns, never seen any ill effects, except that some guns might require two strikes due to the primer's extra hardness. +1 +2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPatton Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I quit buying small pistol a long time back. I now use SR primers exclusively in my 19/2011 guns with extended firing pins. With a 17# mainspring it would failed to fire. The extended firing pin fixed that problem. Striker fired guns still get a diet of SP primers, of which I still have an abundance. I have never changed anything else in the reload recipe because of SR primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Typically, SRP work fine as a replacement for SPP. But they do have a harder cup. If you're running a 17# or lighter mainspring, that could result in ignition issues. But that's pretty uncommon. On a positive note, the harder cup helps eliminate primer flow, which is why a lot of open shooters use them for major 9, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Typically, SRP work fine as a replacement for SPP. But they do have a harder cup. If you're running a 17# or lighter mainspring, that could result in ignition issues. But that's pretty uncommon. On a positive note, the harder cup helps eliminate primer flow, which is why a lot of open shooters use them for major 9, etc.. Correct me if I'm wrong but primer flow is a pressure sign and not really a problem in itself. so youre eliminating flow with a harder primer but the load hasthe same pressure. What do you gain? Other than masking a clue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Yea Garmil. I don't get it either. Masking pressure signs and possibly having breech erosion, for what? I load major 9mm and major 40 with spp, no problems... Dunno... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I don't see how choice of primer has any effect on breech face erosion. As for primer flow and masking pressure signs, you have two different problems. Obviously excess pressure can lead to case rupture, etc. Primer choice isn't going to change that. The other problem is primer flow and the chance that small amounts of primer can shear off and fill the firing pin hole in the slide leading to malfunctions. The harder primer cup solves that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) The majority of breech face erosion I have seen is from using srp in pistols. Harder primer cup means the primer is less able to seal in the pocket, causing flame cutting or erosion on the breech face from fire leaking around the primer. Primer flow IS a sign of over pressure. Using srp to prevent it is MASKING the over pressure. Better choice would be to find a load (bullet/powder combo) that was not over pressure. If you can't use spp, the load is over pressure and could cause problems. jmho... jj Edited November 11, 2015 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) ... some guns might require two strikes due to the primer's extra hardness. An extended steel firing pin will cure that problem. Edited November 11, 2015 by Pat Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 The reason behind "masking" the primer flow with SRP is that when that primer flows, it pushes the indent from the firing pin strike on the primer backwards, into the firing pin hole of the breech face, which then starts to move as the spent case starts the ejection process, which shears off that tiny peice of brass inside the firing pin hole, turning the gun into an expensive hammer until you can get it out of the firing pin channel. As for breech face erosion with SRP, it can happen, if the primer pocket is worn out on the brass or the pressure of the round is not great enough to seal the primer pocket when the round goes off...Some primers are harder than others...Federals are commonly thought to have the softest cups, while CCI and Tula are thought to have the hardest. With CCI, there is no difference between the cup hardness of their SPMP and their SRP...while with Winchester, their SPP and their SPMP use the exact same cup. Several years baxk, there was a post about the hardness of primers posted here...do a search and you'll likely find it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 My point is not to have such a high pressure load that causes primer flow on pistol primers that makes you use rifle primers. Rifle primers are made for pressures exceeding 60k psi, way past a safe margin for pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 My point is not to have such a high pressure load that causes primer flow on pistol primers that makes you use rifle primers. Rifle primers are made for pressures exceeding 60k psi, way past a safe margin for pistols. It is insurance against having a jammed gun during a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Never had pistol primers cause any problems...but I don't use an over pressure load either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPatton Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 When jacking up a 9MM to make major, one should expect to have some issues that you wouldn't otherwise have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) When jacking up a 9MM to make major, one should expect to have some issues that you wouldn't otherwise have.Why? I don't agree. I have never had a problem or issues using pistol primers with major 9mm (or major 40). I realize it (major 9) is on the edge of +p+ or even a bit over. But using primers designed for much higher pressures than pistols are designed for just to cover the higher pressures is an accident waiting to happen. Something like putting a small block v8 in a prius but not changing the drive train...Major 9 can be done with pistol primers with the correct powder and bullet combo. I see no reason to use rifle primers, and feel that using them is dangerous from the simple fact that you can use loads that are dangerous but not have the primer for a easily warning system. jmho jj Edited November 12, 2015 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Hi RiggerJJ, ummmm. you know a combo of powder and bullet that makes major PF in a 9mm without exceeding SAAMI +p pressures? (over 165 is the number I think is major PF.) Believe me, I would like the knowledge. I am not thinking it is possible without exceeding limits in the re-loading data I have. primers and cases are surprisingly plastic under the pressures caused by firing. I know the Federal primers flow more than WSP primers. so I can see it is possible that under additional pressure of 9mm major that the WSP primers may ooze a bit, leading the reloader to consider the next step in hardness. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I use Tula KVB-223 primers in 9mm and .45ACP - normal loads - and have never had any problem with ignition or breech face erosion. Have also used KVB-556M which is what I use in .223 and when the KVB-223s are used up I'll just use the 556ms in everything. This is in 1911s with 17lb springs. It just simplifies things to only have to stock one primer size/brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxbat Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 (edited) Primers... shrimers... here are a couple of range finds - and 38 SC on top of that! Edited November 12, 2015 by Foxbat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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