CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I see frequent comments about how IDPA is not real world...blah blah....if you encoutered a real life defense situation and IDPA was your training you would be dead...blah blah. Now, I was never in the military, Im not LEO and I have never had any formal firearms training of any sort (IDPA SO class is the only firearm related class ive ever taken). With that said, I think people that participate in IDPA are leaps and bounds more capable of defending themselves in a gunfight than the majority of CHL holders that punch holes in paper MAYBE once a month. Your repeatedly practicing drawing your firearm (under light stress), getting rounds on target and reloading your firearm. Some light moving while shooting and all that stuff. I should be well prepared for any altercation at a poker table...Ha. I also think that a frequent IDPA shooter is more prepared than most criminals would be. This is assuming your not going up against a gang of bank robing ex-SF guys. So....why do so many comment about how IDPA is usless as defensive training? I understand its not "training", but I assume they would at least agree its better than not practicing at all. What would be the proper civilian training to prepare yourself for a real world gunfight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) I agree with your points, but I would also point that the typical USPSA shooter is at least as well prepared in terms of gun-handling and shooting skill. IDPA does force one to at least think about concealment and somewhat practical holsters, OTHO it confuses 'cover' with 'concealment' in a pretty silly (and subjectively enforced) way. I think the whole 'real world' thing is only useful for slow people justifying their lack of skill, and sharp-witted people mocking their colleagues. meow. Edited September 22, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Learning how to shoot really fast and accurately is only a part of self defense training. You can pick up more gun handling skills in USPSA, but it is not a substitute for self defense training. Find a school that has instructors that are currently LEO or ex LEO. And keep in mind that as a civilian CCW permit holder, you are alone (no radio, no back up, no vest, most likely no extra mags). Also read Col Coopers book. It's mostly awareness and avoidance. moto, and where is this cover that is always talked about.... Besides USPSA lets me run appendix carry holster, and IDPA does not. Case in point about practice. How many shooters run contact distance engagement, or the Tueller Drill, on a regular basis? Those are just not practical to setup for the games but are valuable drills for CCW holders. And if you think you are fast, try engaging a 8.5"x11" target coming at you at 10 feet per second. You quickly realize you must be at least the low ready, or allready holding on the target, to get any good hits, especially with a sub compact gun drawing from concealment and a IWB holster. Edited September 22, 2015 by 9x45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 From the forum guidelines which are here http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) "Game/sport" shooting definitely helps with shooting fundamentals. Fundamentals are used in real life. Edited September 22, 2015 by MilkMyDuds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 From the forum guidelines which are here http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads. I dont see how this discussion is not related but feel free to delete it if its not allowed. I am more interested in why IDPA shooters feel that IDPA "training" is not applicable to the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Be it IDPA or USPSA any time you are getting trigger time it's to your advantage. For experence, accuracy training, and for recreatioin. Edited September 22, 2015 by Ray_Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Nice article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 What would be the proper civilian training to prepare yourself for a real world gunfight? Conflicts with: While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged But I left it open because there could be some valid discussion that doesn't go in that direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I see frequent comments about how IDPA is not real world...blah blah....if you encoutered a real life defense situation and IDPA was your training you would be dead...blah blah. So....why do so many comment about how IDPA is usless as defensive training? I understand its not "training", but I assume they would at least agree its better than not practicing at all. What would be the proper civilian training to prepare yourself for a real world gunfight? Because IDPA promoted itself as such. Still on their homepage, they infer that they are: "The International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) is the governing body of a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters." Some IDPA shooters will tout that they are defensively trained...which they are not... and will say that IDPA is NOT a game...which it is...hence the comment you ask about throughout the shooting community. While any shooting competitor is better off than someone just punching holes in paper once a month, and it will help with your gun handling skills, it is NOT defensive training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Because it doesn't train your decision making ability, cognitive awareness, moral stance, and some other esoteric issues. Neither does IPSC. It does improve gun handling and some basic principles of marksmanship. IDPA can be fun if you like that sort of game and have lots of time on your hands. IPSC is a better game. Steel Challenge is a good game. 3 Gun is fun.Trap and skeet are fun. All of them improve gun handling and shooting skills. But they have nothing to do with any kind of real world shooting. And real world shooting is not part of the Enos Forums. IDPA can say whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 I see frequent comments about how IDPA is not real world...blah blah....if you encoutered a real life defense situation and IDPA was your training you would be dead...blah blah. So....why do so many comment about how IDPA is usless as defensive training? I understand its not "training", but I assume they would at least agree its better than not practicing at all. What would be the proper civilian training to prepare yourself for a real world gunfight? Because IDPA promoted itself as such. Still on their homepage, they infer that they are: "The International Defensive Pistol Association (IDPA) is the governing body of a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounters." Some IDPA shooters will tout that they are defensively trained...which they are not... and will say that IDPA is NOT a game...which it is...hence the comment you ask about throughout the shooting community. While any shooting competitor is better off than someone just punching holes in paper once a month, and it will help with your gun handling skills, it is NOT defensive training. I guess I have never met anyone at the range that was shooting IDPA as tactical defensive training. I shoot to play the game. But over and over on forums I see comments about it. I never paid attention to the wording you quoted from IDPA and didnt realize that IDPA was promoting themselves as such. I am shooting my first two santioned matches this next month so it will be interesting to see the type of people that show up. I would imagine its mostly people there to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 If they came to win then they're gaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) If you want to see what defensive handgun training looks like for armed citizens, take a look at this guy who is a legit former cop in my local area: www.handguncombatives.com I've taken several handgun and carbine defensive fighting courses and based on what I've learned in them I'm here to tell you that how things are done in an IDPA match (if you want to win) bear ZERO resemblance to how one would do things fighting for one's life. Edited September 22, 2015 by elguapo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I hear this "IDPA will get you killed" stuff every now and then. I do not agree with that sentiment. Nor, for that matter, do I think that it is the ultimate in personal defense training. It is FAR BETTER than standing on a square range and sending rounds down range at "less than one round per second". It will also require a greater variety of gun handling skills than one will get in a rental stall -- weak & strong hand, rapid reloads, acquiring the gun from non conventional positions, etc. There is also some thought given to the use of cover. But, it's not upper level training. It is still a game... but a game that stresses some useful personal defense skills. For a $10-$20 match fee, and the ability to interact with shooters at a higher skill level, I think it's a good use of your cash. I also think that USPSA is a good place to learn advanced gun handling skills. But, that is also still just " a game'. Both are a heck of a lot better than standing in a rental stall.... or just blowing rounds down range as a club member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 It makes me sad to think of the growing pile of dead kittens this thread has caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaultthesalt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) What elguapo said !!!!! Edited September 22, 2015 by assaultthesalt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Guess im not in the know about the kittens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaultthesalt Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Keep in mind that IDPA tells you how and in what order to engage targets.....USPA is more a thinking/stage planning game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Everytime you master bate, a kitten dies. A tired old meme from a dead forum. Ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 If you want to see what defensive handgun training looks like for armed citizens, take a look at this guy who is a legit former cop in my local area: www.handguncombatives.com I've taken several handgun and carbine defensive fighting courses and based on what I've learned in them I'm here to tell you that how things are done in an IDPA match (if you want to win) bear ZERO resemblance to how one would do things fighting for one's life. There is a local ex-SEAL who has started up a training company and I have considered taking a course from him to see what its like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 ...didnt realize that IDPA was promoting themselves as such. Promoted...I don't think they are actively doing that anymore... I would imagine its mostly people there to play the game. Yes, most people are there for having fun. A lot of good people also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Guess im not in the know about the kittens... Every time you use the phrase 'real world' in conjunction with IDPA, god kills a kitten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashDodson Posted September 22, 2015 Author Share Posted September 22, 2015 Guess im not in the know about the kittens... Every time you use the phrase 'real world' in conjunction with IDPA, god kills a kitten. Haha good to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 If you want to see what defensive handgun training looks like for armed citizens, take a look at this guy who is a legit former cop in my local area: www.handguncombatives.com I've taken several handgun and carbine defensive fighting courses and based on what I've learned in them I'm here to tell you that how things are done in an IDPA match (if you want to win) bear ZERO resemblance to how one would do things fighting for one's life. There is a local ex-SEAL who has started up a training company and I have considered taking a course from him to see what its like. Do it, If you carry a handgun for self defense you really should take training on how to use it as such Even if you don't carry one but use a firearm (handgun, shotgun, or carbine) for home defense you should pay for professional training on how to use it Take at least one class from someone reputable. Can you win a fight without any training? Sure, lots of people do. But your odds are better the more trained you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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