vactor Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 after shooting a plain jane CZ 75 today, i can definitely see the tremendous appeal. however, i see most people in production who shoot a cz shoot the one with a thumb safety as opposed to the decocker. is there a reason to choose the safety version over the decocker version? it was a bit uncomfortable lowering the hammer on a live round to the half cock notch using the trigger versus the decocker. is there an advantage of one over the other or a reason i see very few decocker versions? i see a cz in my future, but need more info. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eboadway Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Slightly better trigger, less complexity for easier disassembly as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219531&hl= Keep an eye on this thread. We are waiting on an official ruling from Troy as to the legality of placing a non-decocker gun on the half cock notch when holstering. The question is whether it is a DQ or not. Either way on a non decocker you need to lower the hammer all the way down. You cannot start a COF with the hammer at half cock without a decocker. 8.1.2.2 and 8.1.2.3 Edited August 9, 2015 by Poppa Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpredictable Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Better trigger without the decocker, by a pretty good margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vactor Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219531&hl= Keep an eye on this thread. We are waiting on an official ruling from Troy as to the legality of placing a non-decocker gun on the half cock notch when holstering. The question is whether it is a DQ or not. Either way on a non decocker you need to lower the hammer all the way down. You cannot start a COF with the hammer at half cock without a decocker. 8.1.2.2 and 8.1.2.3 holy cow. that seems quite dangerous. making the hammer contact the firing pin with the trigger depressed? are they serious? anyhoo, still deciding which one to get, but i am getting one based on how well i shot the old used and abused basic CZ today. suggestions are of course, welcome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assaultthesalt Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Get a Shadow Target or Accu Shadow and don't look back ! Everyone that has shot my Shadow Target has fallen in love with it....LOL They actually cussed me because now they have to go buy another gun. LOL Decocking is no big deal....just put thumb between hammer and frame and slowly roll out of the way as you are dpressing the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akacala Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Yep, little bit of practice and manual decocking isn't hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 A fully tuned trigger on a decocker or a safety model result in an almost identical trigger minus the inherent variation from pistol to pistol. There are clear advantages to the decocker. By starting in the half cocked position you reduce DA by 1lbs with a 13lbs hammer spring and reduce travel by about 20%. Give David at Cajun Gunworks a call he will answer any questions you have on decocker vs safety. Also you can save your self the money with a fully tuned SP-01. A Accu-Shadow and the Shadow Target are good guns but you are paying $600-$700 more. For USPSA the Accu-Shadow is not necessary and the Target has an adjustable sight. Both have a ~1mm better reset than a fully tuned SP-01. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 better potential trigger and easier take down when doing a detail strip. those are the reasons. the da trigger pull happens just once a stage, the half cock of the decocker models doesn't make them worth it if you ask me compared to what you gain on the safety only models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 For all of you who say the decocker trigger isn't as good, how many of you have actually tuned a decocker? I hardly ever see decocker guns at matches, maybe for good reason. I'm just curious what you're basing the statement on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blind bat Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 SDM, I was wondering the same thing having never tinkered with a "D" gun. It used to be CZ only sold the Comp hammer for SA/DA guns but I noticed CZC now sells a decocker version of the comp hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Trigger on the decocker pistols can be made just as good as any other models with the FPB. Main difference is the difficulty in reassembly after detail stripping the pistol. On the models with safeties, the sear cage pops out as a unit once your remove the safety lever. A separate pin then holds all the doodads comprising the fire-control system. On the decocker models, you pull out the decocker, then there's another cross pin to remove before you can pull the sear cage. Removing this pin causes all the fire-control doodads to jump out. CGW makes a slave pin (or you can make your own) if you want to remove the cage without disassembly. Re-assembling the decocker sear cage is much more difficult due to the additional parts and springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knedrgr Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 My P09 was originally shipped as a decocker. Had two instances where the hammer was accidentally decocked in the middle of a stage. Now it's a safety only setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rucker61 Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 I tuned my decocker to 6.5 lbs DA and just under 3 lbs SA with the Atlas tips and parts from CGW. I picked the decocker because I already had a P01 and wanted to keep the same muscle memory for shooting. It was a PITA reassembling the decocker mechanism but not a deal killer for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) no fpb or decocker will ever have a good of a trigger as a shadow. and i'm basing my statement off of handling 4 or 5 of each model, talking to one of the better known cz gunsmiths and my own personal experience with fpb and shadow models. if we're talking in shades of gray, or small differences, they are still differences that can be felt by most reasonable people when they pull the trigger and feel the reset. Edited August 10, 2015 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219531&hl= Keep an eye on this thread. We are waiting on an official ruling from Troy as to the legality of placing a non-decocker gun on the half cock notch when holstering. The question is whether it is a DQ or not. Either way on a non decocker you need to lower the hammer all the way down. You cannot start a COF with the hammer at half cock without a decocker. 8.1.2.2 and 8.1.2.3 holy cow. that seems quite dangerous. making the hammer contact the firing pin with the trigger depressed? are they serious? We don't manually decock with the gun pointed at our head, dog, tv or wife. I've never had (or seen) an AD during this procedure, whereas I've seen several AD's on the draw or clearing malfunctions. That suggests to me that manually decocking is not dangerous. I have a very nice trigger on my 75bd, but I don't use it for competition because I prefer the way the safety fits in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayDee Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 All this is good info. My first CZ was an SP01 Tactical with decocker. After tuning, it was nearly the equivalent of my SP01 Shadow. After I had the shadow modded with and action job and SRT from CZ Custom, I began to prefer the manual safety variant. I also owned a 40P which was sold to acquire a 75 compact. With some practice, and the race hammer, it is quite easy to safely lower a hammer at the start of a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Trigger on the decocker pistols can be made just as good as any other models with the FPB. Main difference is the difficulty in reassembly after detail stripping the pistol. On the models with safeties, the sear cage pops out as a unit once your remove the safety lever. A separate pin then holds all the doodads comprising the fire-control system. On the decocker models, you pull out the decocker, then there's another cross pin to remove before you can pull the sear cage. Removing this pin causes all the fire-control doodads to jump out. CGW makes a slave pin (or you can make your own) if you want to remove the cage without disassembly. Re-assembling the decocker sear cage is much more difficult due to the additional parts and springs. This. I have worked on decocker models, and the sear cage was either designed by the devil or a practical joke by engineers at CZ. It's a major pain in the balls to put back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 no fpb or decocker will ever have a good of a trigger as a shadow. and i'm basing my statement off of handling 4 or 5 of each model, talking to one of the better known cz gunsmiths and my own personal experience with fpb and shadow models. if we're talking in shades of gray, or small differences, they are still differences that can be felt by most reasonable people when they pull the trigger and feel the reset. Dry firing or during a stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 no fpb or decocker will ever have a good of a trigger as a shadow. and i'm basing my statement off of handling 4 or 5 of each model, talking to one of the better known cz gunsmiths and my own personal experience with fpb and shadow models. if we're talking in shades of gray, or small differences, they are still differences that can be felt by most reasonable people when they pull the trigger and feel the reset. This true to some degree. How much depends on the person. The question then becomes is the Shadow worth $300-$700 (depends on what model) for the small difference in the reset. For me at match speed I can't tell the difference and its not worth the cost premium. For those that do that's fine, that's why we live in Merica!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I can notice it in both. I have two "identical" sp01 shadow guns and can tell them apart shooting them with my eyes closed. And while I haven't shot my fpb 75b in well over a year, I do remember how much more pleased I was once I started shooting Shadow variants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brisix Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Some of us are trigger snobs and other of us are not Great shooting at Nationals!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I have decocker I like it. ( aka tactical ) I've done double action springs (spring kit) and very minor polishing. I've handled the shadow. I expected more...... Yes there are felt differences in trigger pull between different models and up grades but When the buzzer goes off.... You won't notice 1mm difference or the difference in a few pounds trigger pull, or even reset distance, firing pin block, lifter.......... Decocker / tactical....... Let's say some one breaks into you house attacks you or family...... Release safety and pull trigger. Or just pull trigger. I've been training a good bit with sp01 tactical.... While all the up grades would be nice and I'll probably do them eventually.... Most of the issues the ugrades address.... Can be dealt with by trainning with it. If you put a safety, tactical version in able hands. I'd bet their bill drill, and presidente times would be similar.... Lowering hammer becomes second nature...... You'll have it down in 200 reps or less.... Keep pointed down range with you practice I'd own another tactical in a heart beat..... My vote is for the de cocker! Edited August 12, 2015 by biglou13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) I can notice it in both. I have two "identical" sp01 shadow guns and can tell them apart shooting them with my eyes closed. And while I haven't shot my fpb 75b in well over a year, I do remember how much more pleased I was once I started shooting Shadow variants.many years ago the Secret Service taught me to be able to tell a counterfeit $100 bill from a real one with my eyes closed - a mandatory requirement for the activity I was about to be engaged in .... and not as hard a feat as you might imagine ..... similarily,I got the chance exactly once a few months after shooting my Shadow to shoot a "tuned" decocker model and it was easy (for me) to tell which one was my gun with my eyes closed ..... and I'm no expert gunsmith or shooter with 20 years experience handling firearms ..... although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express the night before now that I think about it ..... Edited August 12, 2015 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmatt Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 If I had to do it all again and pick a CZ to use in production (or SSP) I would get a Shadow SP-01. I started with a regular FPB safety equipped SP-01 and upgraded the crap out of it with CZC and CGW parts. The trigger is great now after all the upgrades, but would be better without the FPB. It also would have been cheaper for me to start with a basic Shadow and then do a few upgrades to that. I mostly shoot IDPA locally so some of the really fancy Shadows I wouldn't be able to legally use anyway. I also have a Compact D that is upgraded similar to the SP-01. The DA is about a pound heavier and the SA about 6 ounces heavier compared to my SP-01. The SA is nice and crisp with a short reset (I hand fitted the disconnectors on both pistols), but the DA has never felt anywhere as good to me. I also accidentally engage the decocker occasionally when firing it. I've had to change my grip up a little to stop that from happening. To me I prefer the safety models. The easier detail strip is a big bonus. It is even easier on a Shadow or Pre-B. The decocker sear cage on the other hand is the devil. When hand fitting the disco I had to stop and take a few breaks before it was all finished because it does get frustrating very quickly. After some practice manually lowering the hammer is second nature and no big deal. The safety equipped models give you the option to start DA or SA. A decocker your only option is decocked to the half cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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