valerko Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Let's hear it. , what do you use for BUG competition? I've signed up for S&W indoor match and only BUG gun is Sig 238 in .380 , which might have little trouble getting the power factor from what I read. Thinking about GP P11 which should fit the bill as well , plus it's little bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 9mm XDs. Great little gun but I could do without the grip safety. I had a bobble when I failed to properly engage the grip safety while attempting a weakhand string of fire. I'm sure shooting it more than twice before a sanctioned match would have resolved that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 M&P9C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davsco Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 sti lawman 3.0 9mm (officer size) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Gonsalves Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) My BUG guns are a 3" K-Frame S&W and M&P Shield 9mm (without thumb safety) I also have a Colt Officers (3.5") 1911 .45 with some down loaded ammo it works great! Edited August 5, 2015 by Brian Gonsalves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerko Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 9mm XDs. Great little gun but I could do without the grip safety. I had a bobble when I failed to properly engage the grip safety while attempting a weakhand string of fire. I'm sure shooting it more than twice before a sanctioned match would have resolved that issue. Little more info on XDs would be appreciated. Which one you used , pros , cons...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlincoln Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 For BUG, and at that match, my wife will be there with her Sig P-320 SC 9mm and I'll be there with my XD Mod 2 9mm. To each their own. She likes her Sig's I like my Springfields. They both more than make power factor, if fact I'm on a download search right now.... JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) 9mm XDs. Great little gun but I could do without the grip safety. I had a bobble when I failed to properly engage the grip safety while attempting a weakhand string of fire. I'm sure shooting it more than twice before a sanctioned match would have resolved that issue. Little more info on XDs would be appreciated. Which one you used , pros , cons...? It was a year ago that I shot and it belonged to a friend that allowed me to use it in order to compete in the match. It was one of the 1st gen XDs, 3.5" barrel? Compelety bone stock. No trigger work, no spring mods. I didn't use the extended mags. It exaggerated my horrid trigger control. I had to shoot about 4" high at 15yds because I thought the sights didn't match my handloads. I found that to be user error as that issue vanished as soon as I shot from a rest. It was comfortable to shoot in 9mm but my pinky was curled up under the mag. Years of riding the thumb safety on my 1911/2011s also caused me to ride the slide lock on the XDs because of where it's positioned. I've never had an issue with the 1911 grip safety during competition but the little XDs compact grip safety had me readjusting my grip during one stage when I was unable to squeeze the trigger after attempting a weakhand shot. I can't recall how many weakhand shots I made with the gun but I only had the 1 flub with it. It ate my standard bunny fart loads (147gr Bayou's over 3.0gr of Clays, 133PF at 1.145 OAL) with no hesitation. Never had a light strike or a malfunction (minus my not gripping the gun properly weakhanded) of any kind. Granted that was only about 500rds over the course of 1 month. I did win my division/classification for the match, beating out the owner whom lent me the XDs. So I didn't ask to borrow it again after that. Edited August 5, 2015 by v1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledoc Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I will be using a Glock 42 . . . my carry gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerko Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 Well, working on a trade for 3.3 XDS , handled one at store and felt pretty good .If trade goes thru , I guess I'll be shooting springfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Duel wielding air-weight J-frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) My BUG is a M&P9c... same platform as my SSP/ESP/CDP & my USPSA Open/Limited/Production/L10 guns (I kinda like M&Ps)... just smaller. Full size mags make for a better grip and my measurements show they do not protrude greater than one inch from the bottom of the grip. They should be perfectly legal. Classified IDPA BUG MA (only EX in CCP) with it, and also shot the Federal Air Marshal qualifying course clean with it. It's also my EDC, so it still has the factory trigger. What's not to love! Edited August 15, 2015 by GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Another quick thought on BUG. There is no factory .380 ACP load operating within SAAMI specs that will make the required 95 PF -- let alone a 5-10 PF cushion factor. I have no clue as to why IDPA decided to allow .380 in BUG. To make a 95 PF in .380 one would have to load well above SAAMI specs... and then push those loads through a lightweight gun that wasn't designed to take those pressures. Run a 115 grain bullet at 900 fps in a compact 9mm and you have a very light recoiling, low pressure load, that won't eat your gun or hand and gives you a 18 PF cushion. ... might even be able to go lower in 9mm if you can make it function the gun. I fail to understand why .380 ACP was included. Shooters can't make 95 PF with over the counter ammo, and the PF was set low enough to let 9mm shooters use truly Mouse Fart loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Another quick thought on BUG. There is no factory .380 ACP load operating within SAAMI specs that will make the required 95 PF -- let alone a 5-10 PF cushion factor. I have no clue as to why IDPA decided to allow .380 in BUG. To make a 95 PF in .380 one would have to load well above SAAMI specs... and then push those loads through a lightweight gun that wasn't designed to take those pressures. Run a 115 grain bullet at 900 fps in a compact 9mm and you have a very light recoiling, low pressure load, that won't eat your gun or hand and gives you a 18 PF cushion. ... might even be able to go lower in 9mm if you can make it function the gun. I fail to understand why .380 ACP was included. Shooters can't make 95 PF with over the counter ammo, and the PF was set low enough to let 9mm shooters use truly Mouse Fart loads. But 380 ACP with heavier bullets should be able to make the 95 PF while remaining within SAAMI. Hodgdon's online data list 11 loads for a 100gr FMJ bullet. Only one of those loads (from a 3.75 inch test barrel,0.15 longer than bug allows) would make PF at 95.5. The part that puzzles me is that 95.5PF load is the only load that is any where close to SAAMI max pressure. SAAMI max pressure for 380 ACP is 21,500 psi. The load that makes 95.5 PF is at 19,800 PSI. All the rest of the loads make between 84 and 93 PF but are at or below 16,000 psi. That is 5,500PSI (25%) or more below max pressure for the cartridge. Why are so many of these loads so conservative? Looking through all of Hodgdon online data show that nearly all the 380 ACP load data they give is at roughly 16,000 psi or less. None of the few loads that are above 16,000 psi exceeds 20,000psi. So if you willing to work with it I think reloaded 380 ACP could make the PF with an acceptable margin over the required 95 PF while still staying under SAAMI but you're going to have to work it up yourself. Switching to lead bullet would also probably help keep pressures down while allowing you to safely bring the PF up. Does a cartridge have to be able to make PF with cheap commercial ammunition? What is wrong with allowing 380 ACP to be used in BUG knowing the only some competitors will put for the extra effort to make it work? Where does this unwritten, "cheap commercial ammo must makes power factor", requirement come from? There are plenty of other BUG legal calibers that will make power factor with commercial ammunition so it not like we are requiring all BUG competitors to reload. Why does the power factor have to be reduced for 380 ACP OR 380 ACP eliminated. Why not let it remain legal knowing only hard core dedicated 380 ACP lovers are going to be able to make it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimase Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 lc9s for a few matches, the trigger makes a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I am wondering what a SIG P320 Sub Compact would be like if you paired it with a full size grip frame module and chopped the rail to fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 If one has to create a truly custom gun & load to make the .380 ACP work as a competition-legal gun in BUG... one has to wonder where the 'practical & affordable everyday carry gun" philosophy of IDPA gun selection went. What was Berryville thinking? Did they want to create a custom .380 Race Gun BUG division? Can you buy 'over the counter' ammo for them? "Over the counter' ammo was the rationale for lowering SSR PF to 105. What are they doing here? And......Would those guns shoot any better than any of the pint-sized 9mms with a Mouse Fart load? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 If one has to create a truly custom gun & load to make the .380 ACP work as a competition-legal gun in BUG... one has to wonder where the 'practical & affordable everyday carry gun" philosophy of IDPA gun selection went. What was Berryville thinking? Did they want to create a custom .380 Race Gun BUG division? Can you buy 'over the counter' ammo for them? "Over the counter' ammo was the rationale for lowering SSR PF to 105. What are they doing here? And......Would those guns shoot any better than any of the pint-sized 9mms with a Mouse Fart load? It makes you wonder why they didn't just adopt SSP rules for BUG instead of ESP. It opens the door for all kinds of custom work and guns in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Using ESP rules includes Bills compact 1911s. I wonder if IDPA had went with optics if they would have done so only to cater to the polymer gun manufactures like USPSA did for CO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 If one has to create a truly custom gun & load to make the .380 ACP work as a competition-legal gun in BUG... one has to wonder where the 'practical & affordable everyday carry gun" philosophy of IDPA gun selection went. What was Berryville thinking? Did they want to create a custom .380 Race Gun BUG division? Can you buy 'over the counter' ammo for them? "Over the counter' ammo was the rationale for lowering SSR PF to 105. What are they doing here? And......Would those guns shoot any better than any of the pint-sized 9mms with a Mouse Fart load? I would ask again why is this a problem? Why can't 380 ACP required most competitor to reload to use it? There are many other option if you want to shoot BUG and can't or don't want to reload. Why is it a problem to have a division with legal cartridge that does not make PF with most cheap commercial ammunition for that cartridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlincoln Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I am wondering what a SIG P320 Sub Compact would be like if you paired it with a full size grip frame module and chopped the rail to fit. Why would you pair it with a full size cut down frame? JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I am wondering what a SIG P320 Sub Compact would be like if you paired it with a full size grip frame module and chopped the rail to fit.Why would you pair it with a full size cut down frame?JD It would give you a full grip on the gun, allow you to use the holster that you already own for a full size or Compact, and allow you to run the full 17 round magazines which would be easier to grab and reload. I imagine you could also control the recoil on a full grip slightly better than you could on a subcompact.It would be a $40 upgrade over the standard SIG P320 since that would be the cost of a new grip frame. Edited August 19, 2015 by alma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerko Posted August 21, 2015 Author Share Posted August 21, 2015 New owner of XDs3.3 , it'll bee another 2 weeks before its in my hands , but like the feel of it and trigger. Not to mention ,full size mags that turn it into full size gun. I guess practice is in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillR1 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If one has to create a truly custom gun & load to make the .380 ACP work as a competition-legal gun in BUG... one has to wonder where the 'practical & affordable everyday carry gun" philosophy of IDPA gun selection went. What was Berryville thinking? Did they want to create a custom .380 Race Gun BUG division? Can you buy 'over the counter' ammo for them? "Over the counter' ammo was the rationale for lowering SSR PF to 105. What are they doing here? And......Would those guns shoot any better than any of the pint-sized 9mms with a Mouse Fart load? I would ask again why is this a problem? Why can't 380 ACP required most competitor to reload to use it? There are many other option if you want to shoot BUG and can't or don't want to reload. Why is it a problem to have a division with legal cartridge that does not make PF with most cheap commercial ammunition for that cartridge? From the rulebook... "The IDPA competition format was designed to be enjoyable for all shooters of all skill levels, with a premium put on the social interaction and camaraderie of the members. Participation in IDPA matches requires the use of handguns, holsters and other equipment suitable for concealed carry self-defense. With that in mind, and keeping the shooters' best interests in mind, IDPA's founders established equipment requirements that are based on commonly available firearms and gear, allowing individuals the opportunity to compete with minimal investment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If one has to create a truly custom gun & load to make the .380 ACP work as a competition-legal gun in BUG... one has to wonder where the 'practical & affordable everyday carry gun" philosophy of IDPA gun selection went. What was Berryville thinking? Did they want to create a custom .380 Race Gun BUG division? Can you buy 'over the counter' ammo for them? "Over the counter' ammo was the rationale for lowering SSR PF to 105. What are they doing here? And......Would those guns shoot any better than any of the pint-sized 9mms with a Mouse Fart load? I would ask again why is this a problem? Why can't 380 ACP required most competitor to reload to use it? There are many other option if you want to shoot BUG and can't or don't want to reload. Why is it a problem to have a division with legal cartridge that does not make PF with most cheap commercial ammunition for that cartridge? From the rulebook... "The IDPA competition format was designed to be enjoyable for all shooters of all skill levels, with a premium put on the social interaction and camaraderie of the members. Participation in IDPA matches requires the use of handguns, holsters and other equipment suitable for concealed carry self-defense. With that in mind, and keeping the shooters' best interests in mind, IDPA's founders established equipment requirements that are based on commonly available firearms and gear, allowing individuals the opportunity to compete with minimal investment." If 380 ACP was the only caliber legal in BUG you might have a point but there are tons of other cartridges that are BUG legal and can make power factor easily with cheap commercial ammunition. IMHO allowing a particular cartridge (380ACP in this case) to be legal in a division (BUG) even though it required hand-loads or bouquet loads to make power-factor does not violate those founding principal so long as there are lots of other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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