Is idpa really fun?

[joad78745]

Yes it is. As long as you remember:1) It is just a game;2) There are only like 3 or 4 people at any give match that have any chance of winning;3) It is run by a clique;4) "Some people" do get preferential treatment. If you voew any match as an excuse to get out of the house hang with people you have something in common with, and send rounds downrange in a controlled but fun enviornment, then &/#! yes!

[Beastly]

It's apparently more fun to shoot with a 15 minute drive from my house than the competing USPSA match that is a 2 hour drive from my house.

Although I keep second-guessing myself.

[Rangerdug]

You got it right Rangerdug and you immediately proved my point. All the successful shooting games have strong points. All of them have weak points. I have actually shot a lot of them and now I have shot IDPA. It is a different game.

Every shooting game ever invented is first and foremost a game. All games have rules. Except for safety all of the rules are arbitrary. Just have fun within the rules. If you don't like the rules don't shoot the game.

Congratulations on shooting your first match. I have to compliment you on your perfect use of the word arbitrary. Obviously since you have read the rules and now shot "a" match you are at the pinnacle of understanding. I will try to come up to your level.

As you know IDPA is an association. In that definition a collection of relatively like minded shooters. I think we all can agree on the premise of IDPA, and for that reason why we shoot it. As mentioned before, that association is supposed to represent the shooters of said organization and with that an inherent responsibility to continue to evolve the association, and ultimately the sport.

In the eyes of many that is not happening, partly because of the arbitrary rules you eluded to. That the rules themselves have become the sole focus rather than the game itself. Now, keep your panties on, I am not an anarchist... We need rules, and the boundaries they establish. But they must enhance the sport itself, not strangle it. That is where the frustration with the sport comes from, and where this Thread started with.

Now applying the logic you have suggested, we disgruntled shooters have two choices. Either bend over and take it, or quit. I don't think that works well for most of us.

Make no mistake, IDPA is fun, but no where near what it could be. As you eluded to it is a different challenge from USPSA. Go to the USPSA forum, there is nothing like this there. I think there is one guy crying about the fact he had a squib, and zeroed a stage; Whaaaa!

As long as we are active participants we do have a responsibility to advocate to improve the sport until such a point the sport is no longer relevant and that point isn't far off, especially with the growth of these PASS leagues. The association had better pull its head out of its 4th point of contact and listen and legitimately attempt to correct the problems.

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[NewColonial]

After 178 posts, I was wondering if the OP ever tried IDPA to see if he enjoyed it? Enjoyment is a personal thing, not someone else's opinion.

Edited February 10, 2016 by NewColonial

[Blueridge]

Is IDPA fun? I think so.

As far as the difference between IDPA and USPSA, it is like the difference between Basketball and Netball. The core of both sports are similar equipment wise, but the rules that govern how you play the sports are different. Whichever you like the rules of you will probably like.

[Bkreutz]

Because the rule book is poorly written, requires a SO to make a lot of subjective calls, generally a poor understanding or the rules, tribal interpretations, the "it's only a local" mindset, it relates to "real life" and it seems I see an illegal stage every match I shoot. timmies versus gamers mentality All of the preceding are real problems when you shoot an idpa match.. Throw all of these weak points together and it can make idpa tedious. And tedium is not fun. a bad SO, a bad stage description and a badly designed stage itself ruin idpa far more than anything else in my opinion.

When people know the rules, fairly implement them, build legal stages that are still fun and everyone keeps their mouths shut then idpa is fun. In comparing the two the things I really like about idpa are:

-locally the matches are done much quicker. and the report scores quickly as well.

-major matches are more frequent than uspsa in my part of the world and much easier to get into.

-props. in idpa i've done more "prop" things that have made the shooting challenge more fun for me. inside boats, cars, garbage cans, work trucks. had my vision obscured my cloth barrier, opaque plastic, lights in my face, dark rooms. I've been handcuffed, seat belted in, strapped to a pole, seated on a 'horse', a motorcycle. shot upside down. all sorts of tugging, stomping, dropping, pushing, manipulate something start positions. for me, these kinds of "wow" stage additions make idpa very fun. and unique.

-idpa is smaller, so it's easier to make friends and see them again if you travel around to shoot.

Rowdy, now the truth comes out, you just like the handcuff part.

(I do hope you realize I'm just kidding. Trying to inject a bit of lightness into an otherwise glum thread )

[rowdyb]

Despite my profile pic, I am smiling! hahahaha. I loved it soo much I bought my own cuffs to practice with at home. Though I don't write the scenarios ahead of time, hahahha.

Whenever I show match videos to non shooters they find the big idpa match videos more interesting to watch than the uspsa videos and I think it's due to the number of props and things like that in a well done sanctioned idpa match.

[FTDMFR]

Despite my profile pic, I am smiling! hahahaha. I loved it soo much I bought my own cuffs to practice with at home. Though I don't write the scenarios ahead of time, hahahha.

Whenever I show match videos to non shooters they find the big idpa match videos more interesting to watch than the uspsa videos and I think it's due to the number of props and things like that in a well done sanctioned idpa match.

I'm conflicted about IDPA. While I think all the props and stuff are really fun, I also dislike the possibility of losing a shooting competition because I didn't open a toolbox fast enough or something silly like that.

[rowdyb]

Yep, pluses and minuses to both sports. If you can view them as discreet challenges then all the rancor goes away.

For me, I have seen the prop thing go too far so that is does influence a result. But still, I just strive to make whatever I do as best as possible so that the stuff in the stage is irrelevant. I do well or poorly off what I do solely. Like I think most people do as well.

[9x45]

Iron, it's only your first match, ever, and a non-sanctioned charity match to boot. See what you think of the game after shooting at least 2 dozen matches each of sanctioned IDPA and USPSA.

[IronArcher]

Iron, it's only your first match, ever, and a non-sanctioned charity match to boot. See what you think of the game after shooting at least 2 dozen matches each of sanctioned IDPA and USPSA.

Absolutely!

Was just giving my initial reactions as a complete newbie off the street.

In time, I think I'll be drawn more towards USPSA especially after the scoring becomes "normal" to me. For now, I'm probably more comfortable doing IDPA size stages and not having to do too much planning.

But both sure do seem to be fun. Can't wait to get in some outdoor matches!

[Bart Solo]

Rangerdug, if you don't like a game's rules and have no way to change them, you can always vote with your feet. I suspect there is something about IDPA you like. You wouldn't be so passionate if there wasn't something that kept you coming back.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Bart Solo

[Rangerdug]

Rangerdug, if you don't like a game's rules and have no way to change them, you can always vote with your feet. I suspect there is something about IDPA you like. You wouldn't be so passionate if there wasn't something that kept you coming back.

It is a sport involving shooting, and at present the only one that has a tactical aspect to it. Honestly it is very similar to drills we run at work. It does stress accuracy over time. So yes, I do support it. However, as I stated there is a lot that I do have issue with.

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[9x45]

Ranger, just out of curiosity, how many matches do you have under your belt?

While the IDPA premise is tactical/practical, it just another shooting game, invented by one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever, Bill Wilson, and his IPSC homies from back in the day, Sayle, Rauch, Vickers, Hackathorn. Very, very few shooters use their actual carry/duty guns, run full house ammo, or draw from an IWB holster under a normal concealment garment because it is a game and everyone takes the rules to the edge, like Bob Vogel. He is not a gamer, rather just a guy who knows the edge of rules and plays by that. Fully tricked out G34 with ammo just above the power floor, spring loaded mylar vest, etc.These guys also happen to be the top shooters. But it is not training or tactics, and even the rules don't always make sense because they don't have to, they are just opposite/different to USPSA so that IDPA is a new game.

[Rangerdug]

Ranger, just out of curiosity, how many matches do you have under your belt?

While the IDPA premise is tactical/practical, it just another shooting game, invented by one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever, Bill Wilson, and his IPSC homies from back in the day, Sayle, Rauch, Vickers, Hackathorn. Very, very few shooters use their actual carry/duty guns, run full house ammo, or draw from an IWB holster under a normal concealment garment because it is a game and everyone takes the rules to the edge, like Bob Vogel. He is not a gamer, rather just a guy who knows the edge of rules and plays by that. Fully tricked out G34 with ammo just above the power floor, spring loaded mylar vest, etc.These guys also happen to be the top shooters. But it is not training or tactics, and even the rules don't always make sense because they don't have to, they are just opposite/different to USPSA so that IDPA is a new game.

I have been shooting for over 2 1/2 years. I am fully aware of who started and why they did. I have no issues with gaming and or Vogel. My issues are not with the rules, but application of the rules. In that the micromanagement of a stage. I have issue with the culture that it has created. As I have stated before a Hall Monitor sect, honestly they are only missing road guard belts(the red hats are cute). I have issue with failure to right, and the subjective nature it entails. I have issue with the fact you can walk the stage prior, but damn if you ghost gun it. I appreciate the rules on cover, but hate again the subjective application. I disagree with rule on dropping magazines, but that is a tactical debate for a later date.

Again I am not against IDPA, I shoot it and I will keep shooting it. I don't like the current organization of IDPA.

It must be stated not all IDPA clubs are bad. The clubs in N.C. were outstanding based on the members and their backgrounds they ran outstanding matches. Local not so much.

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Edited February 16, 2016 by Rangerdug

[Thomas H]

While the IDPA premise is tactical/practical, it just another shooting game, invented by one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever, Bill Wilson,

You have said that a number of times, I've noticed. Um. What is your criteria for "greatest IPCS shooter ever," I wonder? Because while Mr. Wilson was definitely good, he never actually won anything on a national level, did he? (Or did I miss something?)

My comment isn't to take anything away from Mr. Wilson, I just wonder why you keep calling him that, as if the creation of IDPA needs it somehow. (I personally think IDPA can stand on its own without continually hearing who started it, as if that really makes much difference, and without amplifying anyone's resume unnecessarily.)

Fully tricked out G34 with ammo just above the power floor, spring loaded mylar vest, etc.

What is a "spring loaded mylar vest"? What does spring loaded mean?

I'm also curious what "fully tricked out" means with respect to Vogel's gun...what do you think he's done to it to change it? What do you consider "fully tricked out"?

[9x45]

Ranger, you nailed it...... I have issue with the culture that it has created.

[9x45]

Thomas, Wilson was on the 1st World Team. Spring loaded, ie, mylar lined vests, they bend out of the way. But the point would be who wears a vest for every day carry? Vogels gun is not stock, and he is not shooting full house ammo. He has all the allowable mods and his ammo is just above the floor. Have you ever seen one shooter run a OEM G31 (.357SIG) with full house ammo from an IWB holster under a regular shirt? I'll bet not, because it's damn difficult to manage compared to a game gun. That is where the rules separate from reality, even though it's supposed to be practical/tactical, what IDPA has become today, not when it first started.

[Jim Watson]

Have you ever seen one shooter run a OEM G31 (.357SIG) with full house ammo from an IWB holster under a regular shirt? I'll bet not,

I have.

The loudest thing I have heard in a while.

But then he was intentionally using his daily carry gun, not trying to game it out.

[solaritx]

not sure about a OEM G31 BUT......

As a 6 gun IDPA Master that has won some.....I wanted to do something different.

At the Oct 2015 Lone Star Championship, I shot a 4 inch Smith Revolver in Full Load .44 mag. for the entire match. ( I won the Chrono stage!!!!) I did it with a Suit Coat, IWB holster and formal cowboy hat.

Has so much fun that I plan on doing more matches with it.

Garry Newton

Edited February 18, 2016 by solaritx

[9x45]

Have you ever seen one shooter run a OEM G31 (.357SIG) with full house ammo from an IWB holster under a regular shirt? I'll bet not,I have.The loudest thing I have heard in a while.But then he was intentionally using his daily carry gun, not trying to game it out.

That was me...

[9x45]

Garry was that on YouTube?

[solaritx]

Not that I know. Went and had great time. Was going to shoot the TX State match with it in few months and first date that they had....I was good to go. The current date..... I am judging Dog shows that weekend. Was fun to have the SO comment "what was that cannon"...."was that a .44 Mag? I thought you were shooting a 44".....and my favorite "tell me to double plug next time".

I would like to shoot the 2016 LoneStar if no conflicts.

Edited February 18, 2016 by solaritx

[Thomas H]

Thomas, Wilson was on the 1st World Team. Spring loaded, ie, mylar lined vests, they bend out of the way. But the point would be who wears a vest for every day carry? Vogels gun is not stock, and he is not shooting full house ammo. He has all the allowable mods and his ammo is just above the floor. Have you ever seen one shooter run a OEM G31 (.357SIG) with full house ammo from an IWB holster under a regular shirt? I'll bet not, because it's damn difficult to manage compared to a game gun. That is where the rules separate from reality, even though it's supposed to be practical/tactical, what IDPA has become today, not when it first started.

Yes, Wilson was on the 1st World Team. I'm not sure how that translates to "one of the greatest IPSC shooters ever." You keep saying that (I think I've read you saying it in at least three different places in the last couple of weeks) and yet I'm not sure that "greatest" and "ever" mean what you think they mean.

Mylar lined means "spring-loaded" means "they bend out of the way"? I thought all vests bent out of the way. I thought stiff vests bent out of the way easily, no matter what makes the vest stiff---is there something about mylar that adds spring-tension somehow? Where do the springs come from?

Who wears a vest? Apparently plenty of people, considering how often that question gains irate responses from people who say they wear their vest on a daily basis.

As for: "Vogels gun is not stock, and he is not shooting full house ammo. He has all the allowable mods and his ammo is just above the floor." ---my question still is the same, which is "what do you think he's done to it to change it? What do you consider "fully tricked out"?" "All" the allowable mods---what would those be, I wonder? Do you actually know, or are you just assuming?

Also, have you seen the chrono results from his ammo? Since you know what his ammo is like, apparently?

As for this: "Have you ever seen one shooter run a OEM G31 (.357SIG) with full house ammo from an IWB holster under a regular shirt?"

No, because most people see no reason to carry a .357sig, since its functional effectiveness isn't any different that a 9mm, so why would they get one just to compete with? And since IDPA is a sport (and very obviously so) why (other than purely for fun or to make a statement) would anyone handicap themselves in a sport in that fashion?

And why anyone would leave a Glock completely OEM is beyond me. The sights are horrible (and fragile), the 9mm is oversprung, and the trigger is ridiculous. Someone who shoots it and plans on using it for self-defense and carry SHOULD upgrade several parts. That's just my opinion, of course.

I note that I'd be perfectly happy to compete with my exact carry rig, including my carry mag pouches. However, since it is AIWB, and my carry pouches don't cover enough of the magazines (apparently coverage is more important than retention), I can't do either. So since I have to compete with something that doesn't resemble what I actually use for carry, since IDPA won't let me, why wouldn't I just go with what will give me the most advantage in the sport?

And anyone who shoots a lot reloads anyway--so why make your reloads cost more by putting in more powder than you need to play in the sport? Why on earth would you compete with "full house" ammo? It isn't like practicing with "full house" ammo actually will better prepare you to handle your gun in a self-defense situation, unless the difference between your reloads and "full house" is similar to .22 versus .45.

"That is where the rules separate from reality, even though it's supposed to be practical/tactical, what IDPA has become today, not when it first started."

Right, right. Well, since the rules won't actually allow me to compete with my carry rig, I guess I'll just have to play by the rules. Considering that IDPA and "reality" are very separate things (when is the last time someone could win a stage by simply quietly walking away?) I'm thinking discussing "the old days" makes little sense to me.

[LowryWeaponsSystems]

Nope