Kimber (or SIG?) 9mm for first gun?

[StraightSh00ter]

After my thread and search for a budget 9mm 1911, I've come across the Kimber Custom II in 9mm. It is listed for $860 at the local gun shop ($100 less than Bud's). I really like the way it feels in my hand: I love the trigger, frame, general fit and finish, the mag release, the STAINLESS, I could go on... Unfortunately I don't get the chance to shoot one before buying one, but of all the 1911's I've held in hand, this one seems to be the best combination of value and quality and appeal.

So I'm wondering if there's anything that would make this a 'bad choice' for a first gun. I am interested in shooting Single Stack, or really just any way form of competitive shooting with a pistol. Are there any surprises with certain brands or models? Is it a horrible idea to buy without shooting?

The other question I have is about the rear sight: A different model had a tritium night sight with a single dot on the front and fixed rear. It was AMAZING - I totally loved it. But one of the models I'm looking at comes with an all-black, adjustable 'target' sight, which unfortunately doesn't really do it for me. I know adjustable is recommended - is it really that critical, or is a properly sighted fixed sight fine for starting out?

*In looking more online, I found the SIG 1911 Match Elite for roughly the same cost. I will see if I can check one out in person, but I seem to have a little more confidence in the SIG's reliability. I think I could get excited about this one too!

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/1911-traditional-match-elite-stainless.aspx

Edited July 7, 2015 by StraightSh00ter

[wgj3]

You will likely get mixed opinions on the Kimber guns. I don't have a great deal of experience with them, so I will sit out that discussion/arguement.

Regarding the sights, nothing wrong with fixed sights if you have the means to adjust them to zero as you want with your preferred ammo/load. Downside to fixed is that you don't have convenient elevation adjustment at all. You have to replace or permanently alter the front post to move POI up or down. You can drift "fixed" sights to adjust for windage, but not for elevation. Adjustables are the easy way to go.

As far as the night sights vs target sights go, you will generally see competitive shooters running a plain black rear sight with a fiber optic front.

Edited July 7, 2015 by wgj3

[himurax13]

I have found that tritium sights are fairly useless unless you find yourself in a situation where the target is illuminated and you are not. If you use a weapon mounted flashlight it will was out the tritium glow making your sights no better than regular black sights.

I can't really say that a 1911 is a good choice or not as a first gun purchase but if you actually work on it and shoot it a lot, you will have a much easier time with pretty much anything else, lol.

[MikeRush]

Kimber Custom 2 owner here. It was my first handgun. They wear out quickly, tend to not work, and the warranty department was all but useless in my experience. Most people who own them and like them are the ones who say they are purty and tight... but don't shoot them much.

You don't see many in the hands of seasoned competitors for a reason.

If you get one, plan on making friends with a gunsmith or learning to do all kinds of 1911 work yourself. A bare minimum in my mind would be respringing the gun (no big deal), yanking the series 2 parts (no big deal), getting all new mags, fitting and tuning the extractor and fitting a tighter firing pin stop.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to praise the virtues of Kimber. Their marketing department is far more competent than their assembly line, qc, or warranty department. Only reason I'm vocal about it is somebody suggested I get one when I started, and I wound up spending time screwing around with revolvers and Glocks because they actually worked.

There are a lot of better quality options in that price range.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Not sure why you want a 9mm SS? That puts you at a big scoring disadvantage

when shooting against .45's shooting Major loads (vs 9mm's Minor loads).

What are you shooting now? I recommend you start out shooting "any form of

competitive shooting" that you use whatever you have now, or are used to.

If you usually shoot a Glock - that solves all your problems.

If you usually shoot a 1911, then I'd go with a .45.

If you currently have ANY gun (9mm or larger), I'd go start shooting with

that gun and see whether you enjoy competitive shooting, and what you'd

like to start with.

And YES, if you're buying a new gun ADJUSTABLE sights are Very Nice

to have - especially as you experiment with lighter and heavier bullets,

and different powders.

Good luck - you can't really go too wrong with anything - just get started.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Hi-Power Jack

[andrewtac]

As others have mentioned if this is your first, there are cheaper easier options to start with. I shot glock for years. I still like them but have since moved on. A stock glock in 9 will get you into all the major pistol action shooting sports and you won't be that far behind of the guy with the tricked out glock. There are others besides glock. I have recently started 1911s and I enjoy it. Good luck.

[jcc7x7]

Been shooting 1911's competitively for 40 years on & off.

10 round minor gun makes a lot of sense in uspsa based on the majority of course designs at most matches these days.

Ammo is cheaper factory or hand loaded

Kimber doesn't make it in the competition world

SIg is the better choice of the two u mention

SA range officer might also be considered

Not as pretty as the sig match elite with traditional slide but very useable

Good fortune with single stack/1911's u will enjoy it

Edited July 7, 2015 by jcc7x7

[PalmBeach1]

In your price range, would personally look at a Springfield. A target Loaded in Stainless could still be found, or as mentioned the range Officer is another great choice.

For the price of a Springfield, their CS and warranty department is second to none.

[StraightSh00ter]

Thanks - I've been reading a lot of good things about Sig 1911's this morning. I shot a Range Officer yesterday and held a couple new ones in my hand and just wasn't excited enough to spend $800 on it. Every Kimber felt amazing in the hand but I don't want to take a chance at reliability. That being said, it sounds like the complaints are pretty common and a few replacement parts seems to fix the issues if/when they arise.

My favorite gun has been a CZ 75, until I shot 1911s (Colt .45 and 9mm, and now the RO). 9mm seems to be sensible for first gun - .45 was fun to shoot but I don't want to start there. Also 9mm is a lot cheaper to shoot.

My other favorite gun was the Sig P226 which I've shied away from due to one particular range store's absurd pricing. The P226 almost made shooting feel 'too easy'. But I like the look and feel of the 1911 and am just trying to find one that rivals my CZ75/P226 experience for less than 2x the cost of the CZ, lol.

[Hoosiershooter]

Shooting a 1911 will be pricey period. Mags make all the difference and that's where it hits the wallet. You need at least 10 quality mags in my opinion to compete. 8rds doesn't go far. As far as feel, it subjective. If the gun has an A1 frame then it comes down to grips and checkering. But what you like and can shoot well. But I would buy sow thing reasonable, then dump the rest on as much ammo possible. That's what will make a shooter.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TonytheTiger]

To the OP: are you actually planning on competing? When I read between the lines it doesn't really sound like it. If you are then you should decide what division you want to run in first. If your that enamored with the CZ maybe you should just buy that and shoot production, or just plink to your hearts content if that's your goal.

Edited July 7, 2015 by TonytheTiger

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have a friend with over 30,000 rounds through his Kimber Target 9mm. It has been a great gun for him and shoots very well. If I was looking for a 9mm 1911 I would look at Springfield, Kimber, Ruger, Remington and STI. Thanks, Eric

[StraightSh00ter]

My plan is to get a gun that I like shooting in general, then try competing with it. Since I've never done action competition I don't want to get a gun just for that purpose - I have no idea how much I'll like it or how long I'll stick with it.

I like the 1911 - the look, the SA trigger, the long barrel, and the shape of the metal frame. SA/1911 isn't legal in production, so I'm thinking single stack and/or the IDPA equivalent.

I'm new at all of this (guns and contests) so I'm still trying to figure out what makes sense for me. It's not a small investment so I'm looking for something that will do just what I want: feel good to own and shoot, and shoot accurately, in the general price range of CZ. I love shooting the 75 but I don't seem to want to bring one home for some reason.

The 'feel good to own and shoot' is probably where I'm making this complicated. To me, there is something different between Kimber or S&W, versus the Range Officer or RIA. I want whatever that is - and want it to work right, too I think I am getting close - as my price cap continues to increase.

Edited July 7, 2015 by StraightSh00ter

[MikeRush]

I wouldn't be dissuaded from a 9. Very few matches are set up to favor 8 rd major. Most of the classifiers are, but recently 10 rd minor was used to win classic division at the world shoot and single stack at the Area 2 championship.

I'd identify what it is you like about the kimber and seek out what you like in another make. Having been a 1911 guy, I bought a 75 to see what all the hype was about and never quite got it.

[Bob DuBois]

Have several Kimber 1911's all in 45acp and I shoot and do all my own tuning work found them to be well built and am very pleased

with them. That said shoot ESP with a STI Trojan in 9mm again well tuned and hard chromed has over 30,000 rounds through it.

Had a lot of fun with it and plenty of life left in it.

You can expect to spend some money on any 1911 pistol you buy. Tuning the trigger smoothing out a few rough areas, changing sights

etc. 1911's like oil and need to be run wet. Extractor is the heart of the pistol and needs to be set correctly. Set up and kept

up they will last lots of rounds. For competition I would recommend adjustable sights.

[IATURNKEY]

I think the Springfield Range Officer or an STI Trojan would be a better choice. As for sights, I have installed fiber optic front sights on all of my competition guns with "Bo-Mar" style rear sights.

[StraightSh00ter]

Well, I just made my first firearm purchase!! I bought a SIG 1911 Match Elite in 9mm on gunbroker.com. I hope the transaction goes well, and that the gun is in good shape (it's new, was in the display counter). I am more than satisfied with the price and terms. In the end there was less than $200 difference between what I would have paid for a Range Officer and what I'm paying for this.

I paid a visit to the gun shop today and got to check out some Sigs. I was happy with the quality of the guns I looked at, although they didn't have the particular gun I wanted. I also went on the 1911 forum and read enough recent posts about Kimber to shy away from that brand and that pretty much sealed the deal (In the Kimber brand forum, the 'problems and fixes' thread had too much about new guns having issues, and RUST forming in the STAINLESS steel after very short periods of time). I became really interested the SIG and everything I've read about their 1911s. I spent 40min in the gun shop before anyone behind the counter even said a word to me, and then after asking about 2 guns I was told I needed to email someone else to get the cost and availability. So I don't feel bad for shopping online - especially since they will still get my $25 and the gun is likely not easy to get. Hopefully I can finally get some sleep :/

Edited July 8, 2015 by StraightSh00ter

[Hi-Power Jack]

Good luck with it - great looking gun.

[jtaylor996]

Great, now shoot the snot out of it!

[1steelshooter]

Nice choice on the Sig. I bought the same gun a couple of months ago. So far so good. I found it likes Metalform 10 round mags. I also tried Mecgar 10 rounders but they didn't lock the slide back. I think I'm probably going to get a Dawson fiber optic front sight because they are easier to see. Let us know how the new gun shoots when you get it.

[StraightSh00ter]

Great tip, thanks! I was just looking at mags. 10 round would be nice if it works.

[robertg5322]

Great tip, thanks! I was just looking at mags. 10 round would be nice if it works.

I use Metalform 10 round mags in my Springfield Loaded 9mm, zero issues with them. Dawson mags are Metalform units with different base pads (and a higher price tag). You could spend more for magazines, but why would you?

That said, Tripp Research has an excellent reputation. I use them for my .40 S&W 1911 (only ones that hold 9 rounds of .40 S&W), and they're the best for that. Not cheap though.

[cohland]

Couple of things about that Sig to keep in mind. First, the external extractor is unique to Sig, it's not a 1911 part. Try to find a spare. Also, the ambi safety is tricky to get off, if you're going to do your own work. Check the manual carefully to see if the drawings show modified pins holding the right side of the ambi in place. In fact, check to see if the drawings show the ambi at all. If not, warn your gunsmith if it ever has to come apart.

Been there, with a Sig 1911, done that.

Chris

Edited July 9, 2015 by cohland

[Mikethor]

You will love the Sig. I have a .45 Tacops and it's never missed a beat, eats and feeds everything and is damn accurate. Sigs in my opinion are very underrated as a rule.

[robertg5322]

External extractors are available from Brownells and others. Sig, S&W, some Kimbers and others have them. Caspian makes slides with them as an option. Not as common as traditional extractors but not hen's teeth either.

Same for the ambi-safety. Wilson , Kimber and others make one that uses a modified hammer pin to retain it. I prefer that design as it keeps the right side lever from working loose and provides a solid stop on that side of the gun. Not difficult to remove but the slide needs to be off the gun.

I don't own a Sig 1911 but they have a good reputation from what I'very read.

Edited July 10, 2015 by robertg5322