Did switching to a "real gun" improve your performance?

[Gooldylocks]

I was at a match recently and we were all laughing, making fun of glocks, generally poking fun at each other, when someone said "You run your Glock really well, but I would love to see what you could do with an STI." Which got me to thinking, does it actually matter? I have long been in the 'Indian not the Arrow' camp, but I just thought it would be an interesting question to put forth to the masses.

Did your personal shooting improve? In what ways? What about the new platform was more conducive to doing well?

The one thing that I think would make a difference is the trigger. Comparing my 2.5-2.75 pound Glock trigger to a CZ TS or some of the 2011s I've shot, it seems that you can be way rougher on the trigger and still get hits, simply because of the short travel and (reliable) light weight.

Go forth, and discuss.

[bigcraig]

Glock to 2011 improved, but slowly. The difference in platforms did screw with me for a short bit, but I am happy I made the change. (Also, I am in the "practice is for suckers" camp, so the change took some time. lol)

[Quack]

Just depends on how the gun fits the individual. Our local club has a morning and afternoon sessions for the match, and had a friend shoot his Legion Firearms 2011 (9mm) in the morning and my G34 (setup for Prod, but added a magwell/pads to run Lim) in the afternoon. He did better with the Glock, which he just bought the setup from me.

[johnsons1480]

I wouldn't even know how to quantify this. I have gotten a good deal better since I switched over to my CZ, but that was also the exact time I started practicing. There's no way I can say the gun made me better. I could switch back to the Glock to see how I do, but that would be an unfair comparison because I haven't even picked up my Glock since November.

[Racinready300ex]

I was shooting revolver, switched to a open glock and the 1st match where the gun ran 100% I was HOA. Never did that with a revolver,

Edit to add I realize this isn't what you were asking lol.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Racinready300ex

[LilBunniFuFu]

Switched from a production Glock to a factory Eagle. Still end up the same percentage wise at matches. Now the biggest eye opener was when some one let me run a sweet Infinity at a match. Big difference in between a custom and factory 2011.

And yes I used to be in the I can do it with my cheap stock gun group.

[ArrDave]

I switch to a 1911. It took me the better part of 2 months to get back to competing with the guys I was neck and neck with, and I've actually improved on my longer shots 12-20 yds with the 1911. Slide lock reloads do hurt me a little bit as I was faster on those with my Glock but I'm continuing to improve to the point where it's negligible. Picking up better hits further down range is a welcome trade. Of course in IDPA with 18 round stages I'm stuck with 2 reloads so I won't beat my SSP/ESP counterparts, but at the same time stages set up for 3 rounds per target give me a nice clean reload after the 3rd target is engaged, so it's a wash.

More importantly, I like my gun now and it makes me want to practice more so I do so my game has improved from that as well.

[chinny33]

well, lets see, ...

KC Eucebio switched back to using a 2011 after shooting a Glock and WON the US National 2015 Steel Championships. I have a feeling he is going to be winning a lot more again...Well he already was a big winner, but I guess he'll win more, if that makes any sense to anyone?

on top of it all, he broke a few records in that match as well. YAYY for 2011s!

[2MoreChains]

I've been a 1911 SS shooter from day 1 in USPSA. I also shoot Limited with a 2011. However for Production I ended up with a Glock. Last year I switched to a SP-01 and even though I'm still in the same class in Prod I enjoy shooting the CZ way more than I ever did the Glock. Accuracy and splits up close is negligible. The big difference the CZ made for me was on the longer distance or hard shots.

Maybe I just needed to practice more with the Glock, but I am sure liking the CZ (weight and trigger). It's wishful thinking but I would love to have the longer sight radius of the G34 on the SP-01...

[BSeevers]

In my experience performance goes way way down when you switch platforms with regular shooters. Wanna see something funny take a Production C/B shooter and watch him buy a new Open gun.

Professional GM's like KC don't count since they have way above average skills and experience. Of course they switch all the time. It's their job

That said going from a Glock to STI is a period of adjustment not a automatic performance boost.

These are not race cars where If I go from a 200 HP to a 500 HP I'll be faster uh DUH when you push the pedal but I'll bet you don't win off the bat in auto racing either.

That said of course a STI is a better trigger and gun. See results in Limited/Open for proof. Its still a gun not a video game

Edited April 7, 2015 by BSeevers

[aceinyerface]

Moving up to a Stock 2 from a Glock for competition was nice, the damned thing is the operator still has to make it work.

I still carry a Glock and shoot it in GSSF matches, and all the things I improve upon as I shoot thousands of rounds through the Stock 2 are there when I switch back to a Glock.

I think some people are too emotionally invested in their gear, as if it strikes at their self esteem that others select a different firearm and do well with it.

I think there is a great number of people in this world that just needs a big hug, so they feel better about themselves.

[bikerburgess]

I honestly believe it's 99% mental, if you like the gun more you will shoot it better, you may even practice with it more. As long as the guns in question reasonably fit the division they are competing in and the shooter likes it there is not enough difference to make a difference at most any level.

I belive high limited at our last match was a guy shooting the wrong gun in 9mm with only 19rd mags. Second was a fancy gun also in minor. Open was a 2011 in 40 with a Glock in 357sig taking second. The competitive disadvantages in all those guns run way deeper than a nicer trigger.

[PKT1106]

No improvement, yet. I just feel more motivated to shoot with my 2011. I put 400 rounds through it this past weekend for practice and another 120 in chrono work.

[Gooldylocks]

I honestly believe it's 99% mental, if you like the gun more you will shoot it better, you may even practice with it more. As long as the guns in question reasonably fit the division they are competing in and the shooter likes it there is not enough difference to make a difference at most any level.

I belive high limited at our last match was a guy shooting the wrong gun in 9mm with only 19rd mags. Second was a fancy gun also in minor. Open was a 2011 in 40 with a Glock in 357sig taking second. The competitive disadvantages in all those guns run way deeper than a nicer trigger.

That is what I tend to believe as well, though I think more and more that the trigger of a SA gun allows for significantly more shooter error. Just like at that match, when we were discussing my whole flock of misses on the guardshack stage: good front sight... breathe.... JERK THE HELL OUT OF IT!! Doing that with an extremely light no travel trigger probably allows you jerk more often with fewer consequences. That is probably the only thing I see as an advantage.

[shakman]

I switched from an M&P Pro .40 5" to a custom Edge .40 sight tracker. I noticed a significant improvement in accuracy and in split times. I think the reasons are

1. Switched from factory ammo to a "powder-puff" load specifically made for the Edge chamber

2. Gun weight. The Edge is considerably heavier and when combined with the soft load, it almost doesn't move shot-to-shot.

3. Sight tracker barrel. 'Nuff said.

The M&P is a great gun and I had really good success with it (for me.) However, the Edge is a completely different class IMHO and greatly improved my pistol performance overall. I'm even thinking about going with a custom 6" this summer to see where that gets me. If nothing else, it'll be fun.

[Stician]

Not really. Its the Indian. But if getting a new gun is like getting a new girlfriend for you then yeah, its better. You rock her more at home and you get better.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Stician

[GeorgeD]

I started shooting competition with a 1911, then went to an HK, then an M&P back to a 1911. Now I'm shooting a 2011.

Not one of these switches did I notice a difference in skill. My achievements have always been made with more practice. In 2014 I decided to focus on USPSA and make master class. It wasn't the gun that help, it was twice a week practice and close to 30 matches shot through out the year.

New guns are fun but a gun doesn't make you better IMO. They can make you get 'better' by rekindling interest in the sport or practicing more. I love buying new guns, cross training with different guns, but I still think the best investment is ammo and range time.

George

[wmetzler01]

Not really. Its the Indian. But if getting a new gun is like getting a new girlfriend for you then yeah, its better. You rock her more at home and you get better.

^This. Although I own two STI's, I think of Bob Vogel or K.C. or others that are successfully winning with "non real guns".

That said, I saw an interview with Bob where he stated he'd probably shoot an STI if he couldn't shoot a glock.

[bikerburgess]

The next question is what is a "real" gun? The 2011 platform is the most popular in our sport and used by the top competitors in the divisions it fits. This is always used as "proof" that it is the best but what about Tanfoglios and CZs they both offer single action steel framed guns (thinking limited and open divisiins) that should hold their own with the 2011s or is it just polymer striker fired pistols that don't count as good?

[PatJones]

Well, I've moved from revolver to 1911 this year. I place about 8% better in the overall in the local matches with the 8-shot 1911 than I do with the 8-shot revolver. That equates to A class performance with the revolver and B class performance with the 1911. So I would say that while my overall placement is better, my match performance has suffered by changing platforms.

[Gooldylocks]

What I normally think of as a "real gun," in limited and open divisions at least, are metal SAO guns such as the 2011s, TS, Elite Limited, Paras... things of that nature. While those are the guns that I personally think fit that category, no I don't personally think they are required for success. Success comes from practice and lots of rounds downrange, not a fancy gun.

I think the question I was originally trying to answer was, do they make success easier?

[bikerburgess]

Easier puts me in a bit of a quandary. My answer is probably but how much easier is the real question, I would have to think about it like this, how many hours or rounds of practice is the better gun equal to? I'm sure for me that I would do better with 20 min of dry fire twice a week for a couple months than I would with my no practice rutine and a better gun.

[motosapiens]

I honestly believe it's 99% mental, if you like the gun more you will shoot it better, you may even practice with it more.

I agree with that. And it makes sense that since no one *really* likes crappy plastic guns, most everyone shoots better with real guns.

Seriously, my cz 75b trigger probably isn't any better than your glock trigger (it's more like 3.5 lbs, and a pretty long pull, but smooth). I don't shoot my 1911 any better.

[racnsoonr]

I swtiched from a glock 17 with a heavy brass mag well with reloaded ammo to a custom sti in 40 and have gone from a mid to low C class to bumping the B class recently. I'd vote for the 2011 all day. Minir to Major is a bug factor but I shoot faster with more confidence than before

I've never shot a shelf 2011 so I can't compare but I'd have to believe it makes a huge difference just as it would to shoot a factory glock and a glock with trigger work, recoil spring, heavy mag well, sights and reloaded ammo does

[bikerburgess]

I swtiched from a glock 17 with a heavy brass mag well with reloaded ammo to a custom sti in 40 and have gone from a mid to low C class to bumping the B class recently. I'd vote for the 2011 all day. Minir to Major is a bug factor but I shoot faster with more confidence than before

I've never shot a shelf 2011 so I can't compare but I'd have to believe it makes a huge difference just as it would to shoot a factory glock and a glock with trigger work, recoil spring, heavy mag well, sights and reloaded ammo does

Minor to major scoring makes a decent difference in limited especially on classifier scores. Also did your practice (ore lack there of in my case) rutine change at all when you got your new pistol, even for a couple weeks when you first got it?