ede Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) I'm asking just for clarification on what may be a stupid question. Topic sort of spun off another topic on another forum. Shooter said he returned to his car or truck to unholster and put his gun away. I said that was a not in compliance with the rules which require you to handle firearm either in Safe Area or under direction of RO. The response was the match was over and everyone does it along with some ranges allow it. The majority think I'm a prick and or dumbass. I'm still of the opinion the only acceptable place to handle firearm is Safe Area or under direction of the RO. It seems to me 2.4.1.1 covers this. Thanks in advance Edited March 16, 2015 by ede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick238 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 My limited knowledge agrees with your assessment of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Depends on the range. the majority of the ones i have been to do not allow one to unholster unless at the safe area or under the watch of a RO or SO. look up the rules at the range and they should state what can and cannot be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Match doesn't end until you leave the range and go, wherever. You have the ability to DQ at any time. Just because you shot your last stage and everyone is packing up doesn't mean the day is over. Discipline must be maintained at all times. Edited March 16, 2015 by PKT1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 In general, treating the trunk of your car as a safe area is frowned upon, and a bad habit to get into. It would certainly be a dq at most major matches, and just because one range allows it doesn't mean another one will, so why even get into the habit? OTOH, sometimes the match will be explicitly limited to a certain set of bays, and 1 or more separate bays will be defined as not part of the match (they did this at nats in st george). So you could go over to those bays and practice without any RO supervision or any effect on your match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'm constantly surprised by the things that come up on these forums. I don't care what level of match you are at you don't mess with guns except as allowed in the rules. A "range" does not have the authority to take away from those rules. Come to my match and be seen holstering at your car and you will not even be allowed to register for the match. Unholster at your car when done and you will be DQ'ed. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 While they might allow it, it goes against the rules. I always box my gun at the safe table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 At all 3 of the monthly's I go to it would be a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I've seen it both ways, at different matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 If it's a USPSA match and it involves a competitor in that match, it's a DQ. Period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnow Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) While I agree it's not a good practice, I'm not convinced that it's always DQ. If a shooter finished the match, goes to another bay that's outside of the match and shoots for a bit, then goes to their car and unholsters there (as allowed by this particular hypothetical range) is it still a DQ? If the match has been over for hours? What if they stand around gabbing instead? How do you define where/when the match starts and ends? When the last match official leaves? When the last competitor leaves? Edited March 17, 2015 by JonSnow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 While I agree it's not a good practice, I'm not convinced that it's always DQ. If a shooter finished the match, goes to another bay that's outside of the match and shoots for a bit, then goes to their car and unholsters there (as allowed by this particular hypothetical range) is it still a DQ? If the match has been over for hours? What if they stand around gabbing instead? How do you define where/when the match starts and ends? When the last match official leaves? When the last competitor leaves? Having run a club where shooting facilities were still available for the membership while we were running the match, it was USPSA rules for all competitors for as long as we controlled our bays, anywhere in those bays, the immediately surrounding area and the parking lot. Actually didn't really have to worry about the parking lot, because handling guns there could get you an invite to the next BOD meeting (for club members) or an invitation to leave the premises immediately (for non-club members.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okorpheus Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So where do most who carry put their loaded carry weapon back on. I don't think I've been to a match yet that actually provided a place to unholster and clear ones carry weapon or load it back up before leaving. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I've (never) been to a match that provided a place to unholster or load it back up before leaving Excellent point. :bow: We seem to be very worried about boxing an unloaded weapon which has been cleared by a RO at the end of the last stage, but NOT worried about unholstering and reholstering a LOADED weapon before & after the shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) So where do most who carry put their loaded carry weapon back on. I don't think I've been to a match yet that actually provided a place to unholster and clear ones carry weapon or load it back up before leaving. If there is no clear unloading station, you walk right to the MD/RM and let them know what is going on. They, or a designated RO, will walk you to a bay, or other designated area, with your bag to unload and clear your carry. You then place it in your bag and carry it back to your vehicle for storage. After you are done shooting the match, it gets kind of murky since USPSA is supposed to have cold ranges. I would say the MD/RM should use their best judgement on where to take you to load back up. Edited March 17, 2015 by PKT1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So where do most who carry put their loaded carry weapon back on. I don't think I've been to a match yet that actually provided a place to unholster and clear ones carry weapon or load it back up before leaving. If there is no clear unloading station, you walk right to the MD/RM and let them know what is going on. They, or a designated RO, will walk you to a bay, or other designated area, with your bag to unload and clear your carry. You then place it in your bag and carry it back to your vehicle for storage. After you are done shooting the match, it gets kind of murky since USPSA is supposed to have cold ranges. I would say the MD/RM should use their best judgement on where to take you to load back up. Agreed. And our club has an unload point at the gate since carrying loaded is not permitted on the grounds. Works great for our rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Thanks for taking time to reply and confirming what I thought was correct. Too bad on the other forum where this came up the responses were completely opposite of what is posted here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC702 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it. I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis? I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it. Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it. I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis? I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it. Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms. You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 My observations mirror MAC702's, although I only shoot 3 gun. I do have my first my first match at a cold range coming up this month so I've been studying threads like this in an attempt to re program my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it. I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis? I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it. Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms. You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away. I don't see anything wrong with that. It appears they have defined the match boundaries to be only the bays in use for the match. I don't have a problem with that. I think the only danger is that a less-experienced competitor might not realize that other matches at other ranges might be different. At our range we do generally include the parking lot, but we also have 4 other bays and a long-distance rifle range you can get to past the parking lot. I would guess that if you finish the match, and go to one of those other bays to practice, no one would really care where you put stuff away when you were done. At any rate, none of us are really watching what's going on in the parking lot. Edited March 17, 2015 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Getting back to the original point, if the competitor just left the last stage, went to their vehicle, unholstered, and came back to the bays were the match is being held, then they are wrong. There was a shooter on the last day of the Nationals that did that and was DQ'ed - the last stage for them was just finished and then they go home with a zero. What a shame but we have to follow the rules. Technically, the match is not over at that point (your last stage finished) since there may be reshoots, there is tear down, stats are usually running things, etc., and the MD has control over the range when it starts and ends. If the host range allows members to load/unload at their vehicle, that can't applied during a USPSA match, see rule 3.3. Now, getting back to the host range and if the shooter wanted to stay and shoot. I do understand if the shooter wants to move to another area after the match director has declared the match has ended or during their scheduled time but they must still adhere to the cold range philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it. I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis? I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it. Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms. You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away. If there's no written rule, who's to say they're doing anything wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I saw no confirmation of anything except opinions in this thread. I've been waiting to see if a clear defining rule would be cited. If it was, I missed it. I've only been shooting USPSA since 1995. Most of us non-open guys gear up and down in the parking lot. This is Nevada. We all carry guns here, and many of us are competing with our normal sidearms. After a match, we go to our vehicle, reload, reholster, and leave with our loaded guns. Next match, we show up, park, unload, gear up, and reholster, then go sign up for the match. Anyone who doesn't know how to load/unload without putting a round in their floorboard is welcome to use a range bay not being used by the match. I don't have a berm at home, either, and while I recognize loading and unloading is a possible time for negligent discharges, I still load and unload carefully at home when required, and in the safest direction available at the time, or is this supposed to be an unspoken secret amongst those of us who carry firearms on a daily basis? I don't see in the rules where the parking lot is part of the match boundaries, in time or geography, especially for those who aren't reloading a sidearm that they carry after the match; though would be happy to be corrected. I see no mention in the rules of what officially constitutes "after the match." Maybe I missed it. Around here, we don't have cold ranges, except for the bays used for a match that requires one. Many of our rifle, shotgun, and submachine gun matches here will have many of us competitors with holstered, loaded sidearms that won't be used. Like I said, this is Nevada. Even our County-operated public range allows loaded sidearms. You have been doing it wrong for a long long time then.Written rule? No. But common sense seems to dictate the match starts when you show up to shoot and ends when you drive away. If there's no written rule, who's to say they're doing anything wrong? Weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKT1106 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) 10.5.1 How many stories are there every year of unloaded guns going off during "cleaning"? Over-confidence will lead to complacency. Complacency leads to accidents. Edited March 17, 2015 by PKT1106 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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