What am I doing wrong?

[BangSwitch]

I'm fairly new to the shooting sports - I've shot exactly 2 USPSA matches so far and a handful of steel matches.

Under the stress of the timer, I've got to be doing something incredibly stupid to my 9mm 1911 - I've had a couple of double-feeds. I NEVER double-feeds when training or in class. Take me to a match and I have all the grace of a monkey f***king a football. Because it only happens during competition, I can't stop what I'm doing to diagnose the problem, I frantically try to fix the problem. Then I'm left picking up mags and live rounds trying to figure out what I did wrong.

I used to think that I was getting a bad grip on my 9mm 1911 and riding the slide. I tested that theory on the range one day and mashed the slide with my support thumb for all I was worth. cycles just fine, thank you. So that theory is thoroughly debunked.

I'm wondering if dumping my magazines in the dirt is killing me?

Can I induce a double-feed by not following through or jerking the pistol to the next target before the action cycles? ....or am I just an idiot.

I keep a log (yes, I'm compulsive that way) about the number of rounds fire, type of ammunition and malfunctions. In the about the last ~2,000 rounds all of my stoppages occurred during a match.

So what are some of the stupid things that noob shooters like myself do that screw themselves over?

[Hi-Power Jack]

Every time any of my mags touch the ground, I take it apart

and clean it inside and out, before I reload it.

[45 Raven]

It's always good to keep your magazines clean. But I would be shocked if dropping your magazines in the dirt is making your pistol double-feed. Ask an experienced shooter to watch and analyze you as you shoot a few stages, and they will likely be able to give you some input that will help.

Also, are the double-feeds occurring with ALL your magazines? That question should be answered before you pursue other solutions. The problem may be magazine-related.

[blueeyedme]

Just a thought....Under the stress of the timer, your grip might not be the same as when you are training.

[BangSwitch]

It's always good to keep your magazines clean. But I would be shocked if dropping your magazines in the dirt is making your pistol double-feed. Ask an experienced shooter to watch and analyze you as you shoot a few stages, and they will likely be able to give you some input that will help.

Also, are the double-feeds occurring with ALL your magazines? That question should be answered before you pursue other solutions. The problem may be magazine-related.

I number my magazines and try to make sure I note which mag was present when it goes wrong. I will confess that sometimes after blowing a stage, I just just grab my magazines, hang my head in shame and skulk off. Then I get back to my bag and go - "sh*t, which mag was in the gun when it jammed up?" BTW - My mags are Dawson Precision 10-round'ers. They're supposed to be the best 9mm single-stack mag out there. Before a match, I always tear them down and clean them inside & out with a good silicone spray - I pull out the the spacer, the follower and run a patch down the tube.

I know one or two of the "good guys" at the matches. Asking for them to chase me and the RO around a stage might be worthwhile. Ego be damned.

Just a thought....Under the stress of the timer, your grip might not be the same as when you are training.

I thought that might be the case too and tried to test that theory. I went to the range and limp wristed the gun everyway I knew how - one handed, loose wrist, loose elbow, etc. The gun cycled properly. I know I can shoot like an idiot sometimes, but I want to keep up my delusion that all form & technique doesn't go out the window when the buzzer goes off.

....I thought I knew how to shoot before I decided to try this competition thing!!!

Edited February 17, 2015 by BangSwitch

[motosapiens]

You say it 'cycles properly' when not in a match, but how far do the empties eject? Just wondering if your recoil spring is strong enough for limpwristing to be a concern. My sti 9mm 1911 had 1 double-feed the first match i used it, but I had underpowered ammo I was trying to use up and the empties were dribbling out and landing at my feet (except for the one that didn't even make it out.

Seems to me there are two main causes of double-feeds. One is the slide not going far enough back to fully eject, due to too much recoil spring and not enough power factor.

The other is an extractor problem where it slips off for whatever reason (bad brass, rough chamber, maladjusted extractor, weak spring on an external extractor, etc....)

[RJH]

does it do it after a slide lock reload? if you seat the mags hard on a slide lock reload a double feed can happen. also immediately before you run each stage take out each mag and make sure your top cartridge hasn't worked forward while in your mag pouch. I run the same mags, and those are the only times I have ever had any issues.

[BangSwitch]

My sti 9mm 1911 had 1 double-feed the first match i used it, but I had underpowered ammo I was trying to use up and the empties were dribbling out and landing at my feet (except for the one that didn't even make it out.

Seems to me there are two main causes of double-feeds. One is the slide not going far enough back to fully eject, due to too much recoil spring and not enough power factor.

Hmmmm - we might be onto something here! If I recall, I was using WalMart's finest Winchester White Box - not known for being a beastly round.

My gun had a 10# recoil spring in it that worked well, but had some problems feeding 147gr American Eagle bullets with a truncated nose. ("short bullets" don't feed well in a 9mm 1911) Since I had more than 1,000 rounds of the stuff - I bumped up to a 14# variable spring. That seemed to cure the problem feeding truncated nose rounds. For this last match where I had 2x double-feed I was using 115gr WWB. (I have thousands of this round!) Maybe the heavier spring isn't playing well with the cheap ammo. I never had a problem shooting WWB but never thought to ask myself if it had enough ooomph to push a 14# spring. Now you've got me wondering if I corrected one problem and created another.

I've recently met a guy who loads ammo for a number of the top local competitors. I talked to him about my gun and the issues I've had with it. I'm going to buy a small batch of of 124gr 9mm, loaded long for reliable feeding. My first buy from him will be just 500 rounds. We agreed that I should do a little training with it and run a match or two with his ammo. If his loads work for me, I'll be buying my ammo from him.

does it do it after a slide lock reload? if you seat the mags hard on a slide lock reload a double feed can happen.

No, my DF does not happen after a slide lock reload. I try to avoid slide lock/standing reload in USPSA and in steel challenge I don't shoot enough rounds to go to slide lock. ....that said, I am curious. How would seating the mag hard cause a double-feed? When I reload, I like to drive the mag home aggressively to reduce my chances of improperly seating the mag and having it fall out of the gun.

[motosapiens]

I bumped up to a 14# variable spring.

that's what I use for 45 major.

[BangSwitch]

I bumped up to a 14# variable spring.

that's what I use for 45 major.

Todd Green at Pistol-Training.com did a 50,000+ round test of the same gun I'm using and had good results with a 14# spring.

pistol-training.com/archives/7736

Not being one to reinvent the wheel, I followed his example. Before pulling the trigger on it, I also checked the Wilson Combat chart of recommended spring weights that shows 9mm guns using anywhere from a 9-12# spring. So I don't think I'm too far out of of line. ....or if I'm nuts, get me pointed in the right direction.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I use a 10# spring in my 2011 TruBor 9mm major, if that's

any help.

You might want to try a lighter spring...

[RJH]

Slamming the mag in too hard can cause the top cartridge to come loose, while also unsetting the slide lock. The slide then strips off the new top round which then pushes the original round in the chamber with the second round nosing into the rear of the first.

[Logger]

Dumb newbie question #1 - What is a double-feed? Either i have never seen it, or we call it something else?

Thanks in advance

[Mobetter]

Dumb newbie question #1 - What is a double-feed? Either i have never seen it, or we call it something else?

Thanks in advance

[Logger]

Thanks MoBetter. So we must identify the type of jam to solve the problem and prevent reoccurrence.

This being a 1911, i would say it is the magazine. Apparently i have been very lucky.

[Pepelepew]

I run a 9mm 1911 with a 10# recoil spring and Dawson 10 round mags. It double fed a few times during matches when I first got it. The issue never came back after I started loading longer.

Matches find all the weaknesses of your gear. Speed steel is a good way to work out the issues for USPSA.

[mach1soldier]

Is it feeding two live rounds or is the spent case halfway out of the chamber and the live round wedged under it?

I had the same problem where mine would shove the live round under the spent brass halfway out of the chamber. I replaced the extractor three times, changed mags and then had an epiphany.

I had changed to a 14lb recoil spring to shoot 165 PF loads for bowling pins. When I went back to 125 PF loads, it would be great until the match started. Could never replicate it in practice just like you.

Went to a 10lb spring and haven't had an issue since.

[BitchinCamaro]

Even if the root cause is WWB and an overpowered recoil spring, why is the doublefeed only manifesting in matches?

[CHA-LEE]

The next time it happens in a match........ STOP, inspect what the exact failure mode is, clear it, then keep going. Sure the stage performance is going to be slow, but its slow anyway if the gun is jamming in the first place.

[Glock26Toter]

+1 on what Panda says. Also, video. Video yourself training to analyze if you are training well. Then video match performance to see how they compare. The comparison will reveal a LOT more than just what might be bringing on a malfunction of the gun.

[Siphon Odesse]

I'm sure you'll get help and figure out your double feeds.

About the bowing your head in shame and skulking off...
There really is no need to be ashamed at all. Annoyed; certainly. Ashamed; certainly not.
Most shooters will feel for you ( in varying degree) and then go about their business of Their Own Match.
Plus, whatever anyone else might think about you is really nothing you should concern yourself with in the first place.
Enjoy your shooting, ask, see, learn and improve. No shame in that.

[dogtired]

One great benefit of competition shooting is the ability to make your gun puke when you don't want it to.

[Sup38]

Mag hit ground clean it don't put oil or any type of grease on it

[Blackhawk]

IMO... You need to stop when a problem happens, look at the problem, figure it out before continuing. After all, your stage is already a loss. If it is a magazine problem, do not continue using that magazine during the match. Check the feed lips, spring, follower, et al before using it again. Check ammo OAL. Then look at the firearm for issues - burrs, broken or chipped pieces, whatever... polish the feed ramp, any surface that comes in contact with moving elements and use lube... a dry gun will not run...

[ktm300]

I read your post and it was like reading my own story.

9mm 1911 double feeds (live round partially in the chamber with another round getting pushed up under it)

Dawson mags

primarily in matches almost never in practice. I don't case gauge my practice ammo so.....

I shot 300+ rounds the day before the SC State match. Gun was flawless. First stage of SC State two double feeds. WTF! Second stage 1 double feed, and one more on the fourth stage. We had a break so I went and checked and cleaned all my mags. Started thinking "what changed". Well my practice ammo was the same load as the match stuff but the practice ammo brass was not near as clean and polished. I changed back to my practice ammo and ran the last 4 stages without a jam.

I got home and decided started trying to get the gun to fail in practice. I used my match ammo and it failed in about 50 rounds. I ran both match and practice ammo across the chrono and they were the same. I thought I had noticed that when I cleaned my mags and ran a silicone cloth through them it did not function as well so I tried that and I could make my practice ammo fail.

I looked at the ejection pattern and it was tossing the brass a bit too far so I started messing with springs to get it 3' out and 3' back. Found the spring to make that happen then repeated the tests with high polish brass and still had one failure in about 400 rounds.

I went to SS nationals last weekend and ran brass that was not polished all that well, and cleaned my mags with alcohol to make sure they were not slick. It ran 100% in the match.

I still have some testing to do but this was the first match in a while the gun ran 100%.

My suggestion is to stop cleaning your mags with a silicone cloth. Get some 90% alcohol and clean them all to make sure there is nothing left on them. Make sure your OAL is in the neighborhood of 1.145 and see what happens.

Hope this helps.