CanonSterVA Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 OM517> Watch your slow motion video and how the gun shifts in your support hand while the support hand is stationary. The gun shifting under your hand is a direct result of not enough grip pressure on your support hand. This is also why the grip on your support hand fails and you have to regrip the gun. Others have already mentioned the head position issue. Use a normal head position as if you were talking to someone during a conversation. Then simply bring the gun up to your eye without bobbing your head down to the sights. There is no need to hunch over or duck your head down to the sights. Look at my head position in this slow motion video of me shooting three different Limited guns with 170PF Major ammo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUYPsioNKmg Great video. Need to share this one with my girlfriend. Myron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I do wish the CoC didn't hurt my fingers and skin so much. It's more a test of pain tolerance than muscle sometimes. I started out with #1 and at first wasn't sure if that thing was to toughen up your hands or improve your grip... I put one strip of masking tape on the grip that my fingers contacted and left it on for about a week or two. Now it's fine without anything on the grips. trainer had my hands a bit sore at first , but now i don't feel them at all, nor do my hands feel like coarse sandpaper, i have 1 1.5 and 2 en route, ill get back to you when i step up..... Edited February 2, 2016 by biglou13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3djedi Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Ran into this Ron Avery grip strength video the other day. I thought it was excellent and wanted to share... https://youtu.be/e8_w3fxnZss Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebwake Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Grip it harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I tried a new technique today with my grip. Keeping my wrists lock and forward. Sure helped. I was able to keep the dot on target and could start to shoot much faster splits. I just wish it wasn't so cold. 50 degrees out but a 30 mph wind. This topic has helped me a lot. Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Timing is great for sharpening your expectations as to the window in which your sights will likely be where they need to be. However, just shooting to a rhythm would be devastating. i don't think anyone ever suggested anything different than that. Not sure who you are arguing with. That is exactly what G man was implying. IMHO, you may have misunderstood his post entirely. I personally don't think different pf's are as big a deal as gmanbart does, but he's a gm and I'm not, so I'm not going to jump off the deep end criticizing his ideas. In a match situation, 5 or 10 pf doesn't appear to even show up on my radar, although I can definitely feel it in practice. There isn't anything else he could have meant by timing. I guess you just have to be good enough to understand it's not that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willz Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) So all this talk is about how to "control" recoil. You can't control it, you simply manage it. Hunter Cayll....prime example... It's more about technique than muscles/strength. Granted strength can help hold the pistol and "reduce" muzzle flip but it's ultimately how fast your eyes can see and recover the sights after the shot for the follow up. You can be iron man strong guy but if you can't see the sights lift and settle and re-acquire the sight picture in record time you're mediocre. We're all mediocre. "To shoot fast, you got to see fast"... I won't name drop but a really fast shooter told me that. It seems too simple and too quick an explanation but it's truth is solid and I continue to roll it over and over in my head when I shoot or practice. Vision is your greatest tool to improvement. I'm not discounting strength and muscle memory at all but look at Hunter Cayll and what he has to work with. He's a top shooter and I'm pretty sure grip strength has no effect on his game. If you ever meet him you'll know that sheer will and attitude are his strengths. Edited March 9, 2016 by Willz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwansikcjswo Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Simple, Appose the force created from the gun. So, push the gun anti-clockwise. In other words, push the gun down and forward the instance you fire Edited March 12, 2016 by hwansikcjswo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 So all this talk is about how to "control" recoil. You can't control it, you simply manage it. Hunter Cayll....prime example... It's more about technique than muscles/strength. Granted strength can help hold the pistol and "reduce" muzzle flip but it's ultimately how fast your eyes can see and recover the sights after the shot for the follow up. You can be iron man strong guy but if you can't see the sights lift and settle and re-acquire the sight picture in record time you're mediocre. We're all mediocre. "To shoot fast, you got to see fast"... I won't name drop but a really fast shooter told me that. It seems too simple and too quick an explanation but it's truth is solid and I continue to roll it over and over in my head when I shoot or practice. Vision is your greatest tool to improvement. I'm not discounting strength and muscle memory at all but look at Hunter Cayll and what he has to work with. He's a top shooter and I'm pretty sure grip strength has no effect on his game. If you ever meet him you'll know that sheer will and attitude are his strengths. As a noob, there is sssssooooooo much I fail to understand about how to work this game, but the statement of seeing fast to shoot fast, makes a lot of sense. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 15, 2016 Share Posted March 15, 2016 Seeing fast is good and so is gripping the gun in such a way that the sights either stay in alignment, or snap back from minimal misalignment very fast. Even if you can see fast and manage the gun's recoil well, you still have to do a considerable number of other things well to shoot a stage better than the other guys who all have their own portfolio of skills. But you're off to a good start if you can do those two things well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Climbhard Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) shoot minor Oouch! Savage Edited March 22, 2016 by Climbhard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubOrbital Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 shoot minor Oouch! Savage What if you already shoot minor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 shoot minor Oouch! Savage What if you already shoot minor? Then face the facts and quit gripping the gun like a wimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 alright... grrrr. lets walk lightly on the toes of others. recoil is a little hard to 'manage' if you don't hold onto the ... place where your hand is supposed to hold. we agree. a revolver will advance with even the lightest of grips touching the... handle. if you are looking for 'speed' ... AND accuracy... some consideration has to be given one is that you have to be able to lift the pistol and hold on after you fire. you must be strong enough to control the pistol. This is not a "Wimp" issue. Women do not like heavy pistols because they find them hard to lift. men do not like like heavy pistols because they find them hard to lift. another item you may want to add to this is as simple as the weight of the person driving the pistol can make a lot of difference. even your arm weight makes the recoil easier to control. the recoil energy has a more mass to move. save the insults for your competition... :-) the lightweight weaklings need all the help they can get. believe me, insulting them... may backfire. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I don't buy the "Guns are too heavy to lift" argument. In the worst extreme a fully loaded "Chubby" open/limited gun is MAYBE 5lbs in total weight, with most Production guns weighting half of that. If you find lifting a 5lb object with two hands "Heavy" then you are playing in the wrong sport/hobby. People keep avoiding the fact that you actually need to put effort into gripping the gun HARD with real pounds of gripping force in order to properly manage the recoil. If you choose to use a weak grip on the gun then you don't get to whine about not being able to manage the recoil. If people shooting production shooting mouse fart minor PF ammo can't manage the recoil properly then they are obviously not gripping the gun hard enough. Edited March 28, 2016 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 No matter what your current grip strength is, you can improve it fairly easily by just doing some grip exercises. Working on your grip strength and technique is a great way to improve your shooting without having to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) alright... grrrr. lets walk lightly on the toes of others. recoil is a little hard to 'manage' if you don't hold onto the ... place where your hand is supposed to hold. we agree. a revolver will advance with even the lightest of grips touching the... handle. if you are looking for 'speed' ... AND accuracy... some consideration has to be given one is that you have to be able to lift the pistol and hold on after you fire. you must be strong enough to control the pistol. This is not a "Wimp" issue. Women do not like heavy pistols because they find them hard to lift. men do not like like heavy pistols because they find them hard to lift. another item you may want to add to this is as simple as the weight of the person driving the pistol can make a lot of difference. even your arm weight makes the recoil easier to control. the recoil energy has a more mass to move. save the insults for your competition... :-) the lightweight weaklings need all the help they can get. believe me, insulting them... may backfire. miranda Yeah I don't agree with much of anything said here. Your formatting makes it a little hard to decipher what actual point you are trying to get across though. My full size open gun with fully loaded big stick weighs 3.7 pounds. If any male or female who isn't a child finds that too heavy to shoot, the term wimp is applicable and is probably a gross understatement. I've said it in other places, but being extremely strong is not a huge advantage. Being extremely weak is a gigantic disadvantage. The amount of strength required to control recoil effectively is substantially lower than what I would say someone needs to be considered strong. If I were to give levels of strength classifications like USPSA, I would say you don't need to have much more strength than C class to control your gun well. You certainly don't need to be the Hulk. If you're too skinny to control recoil, start eating like an adult and get your ass in the gym. Edited March 28, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 don't insult people. the rest is me pointing out that this competition does require strength and hand-eye coordination. if you have those abilities, show some grace and forgo the insulting of the folks who find it a high wall. it is ok to not agree with me, Jake. Good clear writing is quite hard to do. From all I can tell, Good clear reading is even harder. especially when a writer is being unclear. I will try harder to be more clear in future posts. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I don't buy the "Guns are too heavy to lift" argument. In the worst extreme a fully loaded "Chubby" open/limited gun is MAYBE 5lbs in total weight, with most Production guns weighting half of that. If you find lifting a 5lb object with two hands "Heavy" then you are playing in the wrong sport/hobby. People keep avoiding the fact that you actually need to put effort into gripping the gun HARD with real pounds of gripping force in order to properly manage the recoil. If you choose to use a weak grip on the gun then you don't get to whine about not being able to manage the recoil. If people shooting production shooting mouse fart minor PF ammo can't manage the recoil properly then they are obviously not gripping the gun hard enough. Hi Cha-lee I agree that running a semiauto 45 at 165 PF at competition speed and accuracy requires a whole lot of effort and practice. BTW I think it is a lot of fun... You may want to consider that what people want to avoid is needless effort. ... and they will not be your competition in these ...(games?) or sport. Avoid being condescending... it is insulting too... That someone might have any other choice but a weak grip is headed toward being condescending. Out and out calling a lightweight or weak person a wimp is definitely that. toothguy has the right idea... this hobby/sport needs strength... "Working on your grip strength and technique is a great way to improve your shooting without having to shoot." miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Miranda, I don't think CHA-LEE was insulting anyone, at least I didn't take it that way. More like a Coach's comment that goes right to the point. "Quit gripping the gun like a wimp" doesn't mean you are one. And if someone is a wimp then they can improve. I have also noticed that most recoil sensitive shooters prefer a heavier gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi Toothguy, well, ok... I would like to point out that the ones who grip 'like a wimp' are going to hear the insult... A proposal; how about skipping the wimpy insult (or implicataion) and state recoil control is definitely help with a strong grip. take the steps to grow stronger. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Whatever you say man. Coaching sensitive people is just about an art form in it's own right. I don't consider anything that has been said here to be even remotely insulting, nor do I see it as a "high wall". I've trained people with cerebral palsy who are plenty strong enough to control the recoil of a pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 IMHO it's about applying whatever strength you have in an effective way. Raw grip strength can be improved but it still has to be employed effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 (edited) Well yeah. There absolutely is a difference between raw strength and productive application of force. Technique is what bridges the two. But no amount of technique will make up for pitiful levels of strength. Edited March 29, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I personally like the straightforward manner that cha-lee and jake use, and I'm not insulted at all. Thanks to both of them for sharing their experience here for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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