motosapiens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I've posted this before (maybe even earlier in this thread now that I think about it). Rock climbing once or twice a week will strengthen your hands and fingers in ways you didn't know were possible. also if you already do some kind of weight routine, it's often easy to just start using the free weights with the chubby grips, and grip hard when you lift. it's like free bonus grip workouts, and much safer than racing motorcycles in the desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tha1000 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 There are a ton of ways to increase grip strength without CoC's, they all take work. Pick up heavy stuff and carry it around, farmers walks, push wheel barrows, carry sand bags, swing a bfh. Hang from a tree, dead lift, fat bar work, opening and closing your hands in a bucket of sand, etc. The list goes on and on. CHA-LEE gave his opinion on what is required, where he is, how he obtained it, and how to figure out whether you measure up. If you aren't happy with where you are at, get stronger. It can be done with stuff you likely have laying around the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I've posted this before (maybe even earlier in this thread now that I think about it). Rock climbing once or twice a week will strengthen your hands and fingers in ways you didn't know were possible. I was closing the 2.5 CoC with both hands and my first time climbing left my hands and forearms trashed in a way I have never experienced otherwise. It also happens to be a hell of a lot of fun. I would second this. I'd also suggest bouldering instead of harness climbing. You will build strength faster and get a better core workout as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) does it make me a bad person that I snicker a little when I imagine the average supersquad shooter rock climbing? Edited January 7, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Kind of. Everyone starts somewhere man. I've coached a hell of a lot of people that started in a really bad place. I don't care how weak or out of shape someone is, I just care that they want to be better and will put in the work to get there. I'll never snicker at an out of shape dude trying to change his life that wants to give rock climbing a try. My primary climbing partner is 6'5 and about 260 pounds. No it is not fun belaying for him being 5'8 and 190. I don't see anyone his size on the wall, but I wish there were more people his size there. Edited January 7, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Now I feel bad. I would not make fun of anyone actually making an effort, but without naming names, there are still some funny scenes in my imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 does it make me a bad person that I snicker a little when I imagine the average supersquad shooter rock climbing? I bet Vogel would be pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 does it make me a bad person that I snicker a little when I imagine the average supersquad shooter rock climbing? I bet Vogel would be pretty good. no doubt. there are a few supersquad guys like max, vogel, sevigny, maybe tilley that appear to be in much better than average shape. There are also some guys in pretty average shape. There are also some guys in a pretty round shape. NTTIAWWT, lol. Maybe I should stop imagining things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The interesting thing about rock climbing is that it's a lot more dependent on technique and on contact strength than it is "grip" strength per se. Obviously both are pretty beneficial but it's possible to climb at quite a high level without boatloads of "squeezing" power. I've bouldered V7/V8 and red pointed well into the 5.13 range and I can only manage single reps of a #2 COC and only with my "strong hand". FWIW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) That's absolutely true, but I intentionally use climbing to train for grip strength so I end up campusing up a lot of easier overhanging bouldering routes which is obviously more grip and strength intensive than skill. I'm also a good bit heavier than the average climber so there is that added stress to my hands. Even if you climb with great skill, the positions your hands are put in by the different types of holds does something for your grip that I don't know if you can really attain easily elsewhere. Ultimately there aren't alot of hands free rests so even though you aren't really trying to squeeze hard per se, the sheer stamina that is gained just makes the act of gripping the gun well and consistently a lot less challenging for me. Edited January 7, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Those are good points, Sir. I get it. Just figured I'd add the perspective. I suppose I just wish I saw more direct skill transfer between the two activities. I find myself exerting more effort than is ideal trying to keep my (minor) pistols cycling as flat as possible. The comments about little girls shooting 9mm flat in high heels hurt my feelers. t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 It is also way more grip dependant the heavier you are. I'm 6'0" 220lbs and at 15% bf that's not going to change much. It takes a lot more grip strength for me to do the same routes as my ~150lbs friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The comments about little girls shooting 9mm flat in high heels hurt my feelers. lol, maybe you are wearing the wrong shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taadski Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 But they're slimming… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jroback Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 does it make me a bad person that I snicker a little when I imagine the average supersquad shooter rock climbing? I bet Vogel would be pretty good. no doubt. there are a few supersquad guys like max, vogel, sevigny, maybe tilley that appear to be in much better than average shape. There are also some guys in pretty average shape. There are also some guys in a pretty round shape. NTTIAWWT, lol. Maybe I should stop imagining things. I took a class with Ben a year ago, and my grip needed a lot of work. He told me to drop my weak hand off the gun, and he put his weak hand in its place, saying "you should be gripping this hard". You know, it was a strong grip, but not like a vise. He definitely has a lot of skills that make him such an outstanding shooter, but being a better pure athlete than the other competitors is not one of his advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) does it make me a bad person that I snicker a little when I imagine the average supersquad shooter rock climbing? I bet Vogel would be pretty good. no doubt. there are a few supersquad guys like max, vogel, sevigny, maybe tilley that appear to be in much better than average shape. There are also some guys in pretty average shape. There are also some guys in a pretty round shape. NTTIAWWT, lol. Maybe I should stop imagining things. I took a class with Ben a year ago, and my grip needed a lot of work. He told me to drop my weak hand off the gun, and he put his weak hand in its place, saying "you should be gripping this hard". You know, it was a strong grip, but not like a vise. He definitely has a lot of skills that make him such an outstanding shooter, but being a better pure athlete than the other competitors is not one of his advantages. heh heh. I have taken two classes with ben and I would certainly agree with you. But in uspsa you don't have to be a great athlete in the traditional sense of run faster, jump higher, throw stuff further. I like his thought processes and problem-solving ability, and the way he encourages shooters to experiment a bit and figure some things out for yourself. It is interesting to just experiment with a piece of static steel at 10 yards or so (12" plate is what I have used), and see how your grip affects your ability to see the sights and get the next shot off quickly and accurately. saving .05 on every split doesn't sound like much, but it does add up. Whether it's fruit that is hanging low enough to really work on it depends on the rest of your skills. For me it's something I see becoming more important as I get better at shooting what I see. I'm not so much interested in speeding up my hoser splits from .22 to .17, but i think my splits on difficult shots (headshots at 7-10 yards) have more than .05 worth of improvement that is readily available with better grip and vision. Edited January 8, 2016 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jroback Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 "I like his thought processes and problem-solving ability, and the way he encourages shooters to experiment a bit and figure some things out for yourself." I agree that these are among the most important things that separate him from the majority of shooters. He doesn't seem to accept conventional wisdom, but rather thoroughly tests out different approaches to every aspect of his game to find the way that's best for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perttime Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Strength? What happened to "relaxed and neutral"? (I've been out of touch with shooting, so might have missed some developments since 'Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals') Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) I always got more out of Brian's book when I viewed the term "relaxed" from only a mental perspective. Being relaxed physically just doesn't work for me in theory or practice. That being said, it's not surprising to see innovations as our collective knowledge, experience, and general access to information improves. We've learned a lot in the 25 years since Brian published his book (which I still love by the way). Edited January 8, 2016 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 where do you guys find all this extra time to do all this non-shooting stuff as well as your shooting stuff so you can get better at shooting? Do any of you have jobs or anything ... ? With live fire 3x/week & dry fire 6x/week & reloading so I can shoot and 2 matches/month I don't have time to do all that other stuff ... I have to get better at shooting by well, shooting .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 where do you guys find all this extra time to do all this non-shooting stuff as well as your shooting stuff so you can get better at shooting? Do any of you have jobs or anything ... ? With live fire 3x/week & dry fire 6x/week & reloading so I can shoot and 2 matches/month I don't have time to do all that other stuff ... I have to get better at shooting by well, shooting .... imho live fire 3x/week is more than I can sustain. once a week is plenty. I dryfire every day, play hockey 2-3x/week on the way to work, lift a couple times a week at lunch, and reload for 15 mins every day while relaxing. leaves plenty of time for wine tasting, homebrewing, dirtbiking, hiking and running with the dogs, gourmet cooking, camping, reading and a few other things. Of course i was smart enough to move somewhere that all those things are conveniently located nearby (and has no humidity or cockroaches). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssanders224 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just read through this page... the climbing comments are spot on. Your hands/forearms will gain strength that you didnt know was possible. I climbed pretty seriously for a few years, and I was 6'5" 240ish. I'm not built for climbing, but became pretty decent. I got to the point that I could lead 5.10 b/c and also competed in 24hr of Horseshoe Hell, redpointing over 50 routes in a 24hr period. Point is, you don't have to be a tiny ripped guy to climb. Especially just for a workout. A little indoor or outdoor bouldering would do WONDERS for a lot of shooters grip and gun control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 where do you guys find all this extra time to do all this non-shooting stuff as well as your shooting stuff so you can get better at shooting? Do any of you have jobs or anything ... ? With live fire 3x/week & dry fire 6x/week & reloading so I can shoot and 2 matches/month I don't have time to do all that other stuff ... I have to get better at shooting by well, shooting .... I'm working or training while most people are sleeping, spending time with friends, or relaxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 where do you guys find all this extra time to do all this non-shooting stuff as well as your shooting stuff so you can get better at shooting? Do any of you have jobs or anything ... ? With live fire 3x/week & dry fire 6x/week & reloading so I can shoot and 2 matches/month I don't have time to do all that other stuff ... I have to get better at shooting by well, shooting .... I'm working or training while most people are sleeping, spending time with friends, or relaxing. Hmmmm ..... I have no friends, don't even know what that word ... What did you call it? ... 'Relaxing' is and sleep 8 hrs a day ... However, since recently buying the entire 8-season DVD boxed set of Dr Who I do have to watch 2 episodes of that every night ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 where do you guys find all this extra time to do all this non-shooting stuff as well as your shooting stuff so you can get better at shooting? Do any of you have jobs or anything ... ? With live fire 3x/week & dry fire 6x/week & reloading so I can shoot and 2 matches/month I don't have time to do all that other stuff ... I have to get better at shooting by well, shooting ....imho live fire 3x/week is more than I can sustain. once a week is plenty.I dryfire every day, play hockey 2-3x/week on the way to work, lift a couple times a week at lunch, and reload for 15 mins every day while relaxing. leaves plenty of time for wine tasting, homebrewing, dirtbiking, hiking and running with the dogs, gourmet cooking, camping, reading and a few other things. Of course i was smart enough to move somewhere that all those things are conveniently located nearby (and has no humidity or cockroaches). As you well know, unlike the rest of you, I have absolutely no natural shooting talent. If I only shot once/week I'd of quit a long time ago because I'd never have shown any progress ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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