Sear help on Stock 3

[Torogi]

So I went to HF and bought me a set of diamond needle files. Also bought a 3/32" drill bit just to 'try' (but miserably failed). It took me a good 30 minutes of tender of love to open up a .080" hole to 0.101". I'll stop there tonight.

Ill shave off the top of the wing tomorrow night. It looks like more of a challenge on making it pretty. Hopefully by 3rd night ill be fitting it for assembly.

[AlphaSeeker]

Try mounting a strip of 1200 grit on a 1/16 drill bit, to finish the inside diameter of the hole. Diamond file leaves a rough surface. Wash the part in alcohol to remove any residue of the file and hardened steel dust.

Leave the vertical leg untouched until you finish with the wing.

Any reduction in sear facing surface of the vertical leg will lengthen pre travel.

The CGW disco has a flat face on the vertical leg - chamfering the corners will reduce contact area and friction with trigger bow.

Compare the distance from pivot hole to face of vertical leg of OEM to cgw. Do not go longer then OEM.

Best of luck.

Edited May 14, 2014 by AlphaSeeker

[Torogi]

I managed to do this. As advised, I used a grinding stone on dremel. Thinned to 0.052 then filed to 0.050 lto match OEM.

So i go so excited installed it to hammer =) obviously im not done yet. I didnt have time to do everything since i was just on my lunch break so on DA, hammer goes all the way back and no break, won't fall.

So at this time, i have to measure from the hole to the face of the ear of the disco and match that right? And from my understanding it should be angled too right? So if im looking at the ear side (right side), it should be forward slash?

[Torogi]

Follow up question, I believe the ear of the disconnector has two very important parts (from collective reading)

1. face

2. bottom corner of the face

Face, right now, it is oversized, so this part I need to go easy UNTIL hammer breaks on DA correct? If I go too much pre-travel lengthens?

Bottom corner- when I was working with CZ, this is the part that I was actually breaking or honing until I get a break on DA/SA.

[cpa5oh]

Take this for what it's worth...I'm not a gunsmith by any stretch.

When you say "face," I assume you mean the distance from the nose of the disconnector to the front edge of the wing that sticks out right when looked at from the top...I don't think you want to do anything with that. Yes the face of the wing is closer to the nose than on the stock piece...but I think that will allow the hammer to be drawn further back on the DA pull (one of the Stock 2's I just got was worked over by Matt Cheely supposedly and the hammer didn't travel very far in DA to where for the first shot I needed a federal primer otherwise it was not going bang reliably...a local Stock 2 owner told me "there's nothing you can do about the reduced hammer travel when you work on a Stock 2 trigger" - I think this disconnector, and it's distance from the nose, is the solution.)

I don't think the disconnector has any role in the SA trigger pull (as evidenced by the fact that the hammer doesn't move rearward at all during the SA trigger pull - the sear simply rotates off of the hammer hook, which it is forced to do by the trigger bar pushing on the lower leg of the sear.) So I don't think messing with the face of the wing has any effect on SA pre-travel...it's the inside face of the arm that hangs down vertically and the relationship of the sear leg and trigger bar engagement that determines the pre-travel distance.

Whether the hammer drops in the DA pull is all about the engagement of the trigger bar and the disconnector wing. If you get too much engagement the hammer won't drop or it'll feel like it sticks at the end of the DA pull...too little engagement and the disconnector won't stay engaged to the trigger bar long enough to force the hammer back. I've found, I think, that the leading face of the disconnector wing needs to be perfectly straight up and down when in the position it will be in at the point of the hammer dropping at the DA trigger pull...and I think one of the CGW disconnectors I bought actually had the face of the wing slanting slightly forward, in which case I had to square it up because I wasn't drawing the hammer back with the trigger pull. Then you need to try it in your gun and see if the hammer drops appropriately on the DA pull...if not, pull it and break the edge just slightly and try again...keep doing that, little by little, just until you get the disengagement you need for the hammer to drop. Then stop and get out and shoot the gun (thinks change a little bit after running some rounds through the gun, in my experience.)

If you ever do this again, I wouldn't worry about making the wing as thin as the stock disconnector - I think that stock wing being as thin as it is is part of the "stacking" problem so many talk about with the Stock 2.

Again, consider the above but do not take it as the final word. I'm an accountant that likes to tinker is all...

Edited May 15, 2014 by cpa5oh

[Torogi]

Thank you very much for the reply.

I was able to fix it. Turns out that I may have disassembled it wrong the first time. You are right, the ear/wing face, that determines how long the hammer will be pushed back when the trigger is pulled. I remember now, I had that mod in my CZ.

I did remove material slowly on the back of the disconnector leg when I had a problem getting a reset on SA.

I will be doing a test fire soon!

[bayougump]

I got my one piece sear in and course with the Eric hammer I have to remove material from the leg that allows safety to engage. Anyone have any measurements with calipers on how much material is needed to remove to make safety engage?

Sent from my flux capacitor

[BeerBaron]

there's no really set amount. you just need to remove a little at a time till you get the safety working as it should. it varies for each set of parts in each gun.

[dhf]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Edited July 12, 2014 by dhf

[BeerBaron]

given how many people are buying the CGW disco's for tanfogs someone should send back a modified one to CGW and have them make one in that pattern for a drop in tanfog part.

[CleverUsername]

^This. I was thinking the same thing.

[AlphaSeeker]

The disco experiment was a fun one and demonstrates the margin of improvement that can be gained. It also demonstrates the shortfall in design by the Tanfog factory.

Since I use my 3 in competition, I had to go back to stock disco. The longer travel does not really bother me since the polished internals make for smooth travel and the reduced hook height keeps the break relatively crisp.

Unfortunately Tanfoglio is following the typical Italian design philosophy - looks good, feels good, needs plenty of massaging to work good.

Edited July 16, 2014 by AlphaSeeker

[bayougump]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Ok fellas, I borrowed a buddy's dremel and I was able to get a decent amount of material removed from the leg to allow the safety to engage. I have been using 2 different sand papers by hand now. I can get the safety to engage if I pull hammer to half cock position but not when the hammer is fully back or fully forward. Are you removing almost the whole arch of the leg or focusing more of removing material under the leg so safety has clearance to get under it? Does that make sense what I'm trying to explain?

On a side note thru all this work on my own, my SA trigger is around the 2-2.25# and reset is super short. The DA is much smoother and lighter, still some stacking at the end but not near as much in the beginning. I think I like the SA weight and reset so much that I may not install a henning flat trigger, at least not in the immediate future. Hopefully my henning magwell will come soon and I'll be ready to shoot some Limited after Area 4

Sent from my flux capacitor

[Onagoth]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Ok fellas, I borrowed a buddy's dremel and I was able to get a decent amount of material removed from the leg to allow the safety to engage. I have been using 2 different sand papers by hand now. I can get the safety to engage if I pull hammer to half cock position but not when the hammer is fully back or fully forward. Are you removing almost the whole arch of the leg or focusing more of removing material under the leg so safety has clearance to get under it? Does that make sense what I'm trying to explain?

On a side note thru all this work on my own, my SA trigger is around the 2-2.25# and reset is super short. The DA is much smoother and lighter, still some stacking at the end but not near as much in the beginning. I think I like the SA weight and reset so much that I may not install a henning flat trigger, at least not in the immediate future. Hopefully my henning magwell will come soon and I'll be ready to shoot some Limited after Area 4

Sent from my flux capacitor

On mine, the arch on the under side of the leg had a curvature which would never allow the safety to engage...So, I didn't necessarily need to remove material from the whole underside of the leg, only near the tip to make it flatter.

I didn't use a dremel either, only files. I think if your safety is working at half-cock but not fully cocked then you are very close to having it working. Just need to flatten out the tip of the leg to ensure the sear can clear the tab on the safety. Go slow though, very easy to remove too much - ask me how I know

Edited July 18, 2014 by Onagoth

[bayougump]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Ok fellas, I borrowed a buddy's dremel and I was able to get a decent amount of material removed from the leg to allow the safety to engage. I have been using 2 different sand papers by hand now. I can get the safety to engage if I pull hammer to half cock position but not when the hammer is fully back or fully forward. Are you removing almost the whole arch of the leg or focusing more of removing material under the leg so safety has clearance to get under it? Does that make sense what I'm trying to explain?

On a side note thru all this work on my own, my SA trigger is around the 2-2.25# and reset is super short. The DA is much smoother and lighter, still some stacking at the end but not near as much in the beginning. I think I like the SA weight and reset so much that I may not install a henning flat trigger, at least not in the immediate future. Hopefully my henning magwell will come soon and I'll be ready to shoot some Limited after Area 4

Sent from my flux capacitor

On mine, the arch on the under side of the leg had a curvature which would never allow the safety to engage...So, I didn't necessarily need to remove material from the whole underside of the leg, only near the tip to make it flatter.

I didn't use a dremel either, only files. I think if your safety is working at half-cock but not fully cocked then you are very close to having it working. Just need to flatten out the tip of the leg to ensure the sear can clear the tab on the safety. Go slow though, very easy to remove too much - ask me how I know

Yea, before last night I couldn't even get to engage at half cock so I think it's close. That's why I'm just using two different sand papers by hand, one 1500 grit fine and another much rougher. It's a pain and time consuming but I don't wanna end up having spent hours of work and end up having removed a hair too much. Let me guess, you removed too much and it's no bueno?

Sent from my flux capacitor

[Onagoth]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Ok fellas, I borrowed a buddy's dremel and I was able to get a decent amount of material removed from the leg to allow the safety to engage. I have been using 2 different sand papers by hand now. I can get the safety to engage if I pull hammer to half cock position but not when the hammer is fully back or fully forward. Are you removing almost the whole arch of the leg or focusing more of removing material under the leg so safety has clearance to get under it? Does that make sense what I'm trying to explain?

On a side note thru all this work on my own, my SA trigger is around the 2-2.25# and reset is super short. The DA is much smoother and lighter, still some stacking at the end but not near as much in the beginning. I think I like the SA weight and reset so much that I may not install a henning flat trigger, at least not in the immediate future. Hopefully my henning magwell will come soon and I'll be ready to shoot some Limited after Area 4

Sent from my flux capacitor

On mine, the arch on the under side of the leg had a curvature which would never allow the safety to engage...So, I didn't necessarily need to remove material from the whole underside of the leg, only near the tip to make it flatter.

I didn't use a dremel either, only files. I think if your safety is working at half-cock but not fully cocked then you are very close to having it working. Just need to flatten out the tip of the leg to ensure the sear can clear the tab on the safety. Go slow though, very easy to remove too much - ask me how I know

Yea, before last night I couldn't even get to engage at half cock so I think it's close. That's why I'm just using two different sand papers by hand, one 1500 grit fine and another much rougher. It's a pain and time consuming but I don't wanna end up having spent hours of work and end up having removed a hair too much. Let me guess, you removed too much and it's no bueno?

Sent from my flux capacitor

Yes....I should have stopped because I was starting to get frustrated (rebuilding the sear 25x is very annoying) so I got more aggressive with the file....oops.

I had to do this on 2 different guns, the second gun is the one I screwed up and had to start over.

[bayougump]

Yeah Gump, just take your dremel with a small sanding wheel or coned one preferably and grid on the hook a little till it fits. I removed a little then tested it about 3 times before I had taken it down enough.

Ok fellas, I borrowed a buddy's dremel and I was able to get a decent amount of material removed from the leg to allow the safety to engage. I have been using 2 different sand papers by hand now. I can get the safety to engage if I pull hammer to half cock position but not when the hammer is fully back or fully forward. Are you removing almost the whole arch of the leg or focusing more of removing material under the leg so safety has clearance to get under it? Does that make sense what I'm trying to explain?

On a side note thru all this work on my own, my SA trigger is around the 2-2.25# and reset is super short. The DA is much smoother and lighter, still some stacking at the end but not near as much in the beginning. I think I like the SA weight and reset so much that I may not install a henning flat trigger, at least not in the immediate future. Hopefully my henning magwell will come soon and I'll be ready to shoot some Limited after Area 4

Sent from my flux capacitor

On mine, the arch on the under side of the leg had a curvature which would never allow the safety to engage...So, I didn't necessarily need to remove material from the whole underside of the leg, only near the tip to make it flatter.

I didn't use a dremel either, only files. I think if your safety is working at half-cock but not fully cocked then you are very close to having it working. Just need to flatten out the tip of the leg to ensure the sear can clear the tab on the safety. Go slow though, very easy to remove too much - ask me how I know

Yea, before last night I couldn't even get to engage at half cock so I think it's close. That's why I'm just using two different sand papers by hand, one 1500 grit fine and another much rougher. It's a pain and time consuming but I don't wanna end up having spent hours of work and end up having removed a hair too much. Let me guess, you removed too much and it's no bueno?

Sent from my flux capacitor

Yes....I should have stopped because I was starting to get frustrated (rebuilding the sear 25x is very annoying) so I got more aggressive with the file....oops.

I had to do this on 2 different guns, the second gun is the one I screwed up and had to start over.

Yea, I get ready to throw this sear against the wall every time I put it in and it doesn't work but last night getting it to engage at half cock was a plus. I think a little more off the tip will do it..........hopefully, lol

Sent from my flux capacitor

[bayougump]

Well, hours of sanding and polishing for naught. Finally got safety to engage after working on sear leg and now if I pull trigger hard enough in single action dry firing it goes off. Sumbitch. Since I've got a new stock II coming to backup my existing one, this Stock III is getting a henning trigger for sure now and become a dedicated Limited gun.

Sent from my flux capacitor

[Onagoth]

yeah...its a fine line that's for sure.

Sears aren't overly expensive though if you wanna give it a go again.

[bayougump]

Oh yeah, I think it's the pride and time that stings more than buying another sear, lol

Sent from my flux capacitor

[AlphaSeeker]

You forgot to work on the lower leg of the sear. If you remove a little material, it may provide enough clearance to prevent triggering when the safety is engaged.

[SISIG]

Will the CZ Pre B disconnector work as well?

[waktasz]

I grinded on the safety, not the sear, when I put in the new hammer. Didn't take much.

[Nealio]

Yeah don't grind on the safety cam.

When fitting the safety leg of the sear, you need to grind a the bottom edge of the leg at a forwards and upwards angle to allow the cam of the safety to rotate into place. If you make this angle too steep, then you can disengage the safety by pulling on the trigger hard.

[waktasz]

oops. Why not?