How necessary is a free float tube for 3 Gun?

[Ted Murphy]

My 3 Gun AR has a free float tube.

I was watching footage of Marines shooting M16A4 rifles at something like 500 Meters. Those rifles had a rail handguard a which were not free float.

I would think the pressure they placed on the handguard while shooting prone (no sling) could not be any less than the pressure a 3 gun shooter places on the fore end in a similar shooting situation, or even if the fore end is rested on a surface.

It got me wondering.. Does a three gun shooter who does not use a bipod or shooting sling, really need a free float tube on rifle with a standard weight barrel?

[reptoid]

Was the video of the marine shooting team?

Military shooting teams use an internal free-float tube which fits inside a standard looking handguard.

A good quality free-float handguard is one of the single most productive accuracy improvements you can make to a std AR for shooting off of the bench/barricade/bipod or sling, etc.

[Ted Murphy]

Regular Marines qualifying. No slings.

I was curious what the USMC was issuing and googled the subject.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Ted Murphy

[tacticalCOWBOY]

I'm on the Colorado army national marksmanship team and we shoot GI M16A2 out to 400m with irons at man size targets all the time. It can and has been done out to 600m. You will get more accuracy out off free float hand guard any day of the week. Just food for thought.

[openclassterror]

For military use, just about any hit on a humanoid target is a good hit. In a 3 gun match with 6 inch round flashers at 400 yards, you must get 1.5 MOA groups to consistently hit them. For Service rifle, Standard military MR-1 600 yard target has a 12 inch diameter "10" ring, and an 18 inch "9" ring. That is 2 MOA for a perfect score, which most qualification scores don't even approach. Qualifying expert with a service rifle only requires 80% score, and they have a pretty liberal time allotted to accomplish that. The Marines use a 40" x 20" black zone B-MOD target (5 points per hit) at 500 yards, and expert requires 40+ points on a 10 shot, 10 minute string. While not every local 3gun match will require even this level of accuracy, most major matches have some challenging long range stuff. My free-floated AR averages under 1 MOA from the bench, and I (knock on wood) haven't needed a second shot on any target under 450 yards since last October. Put together a rifle you have confidence in, and then all you have to worry about is getting your breathing and hold under control. Can you hit a 600 yard target without free floating? YES. Will you have to work for it? ALSO YES.

Edited April 12, 2014 by openclassterror

[steviesterno]

When I switched to a free float tube, I went from almost 12" groups at 200 yards to under 6" with the same ammo, scope, and trigger. It made that much difference for me. Went from missing the far stuff, to pegging it. Was totally worth the money!

[Rob01]

Regular Marines qualifying. No slings.

I was curious what the USMC was issuing and googled the subject.

No slings qualifying? We used slings at every yard line when I was in shooting M16A2s. Had no problem hitting the man sized silhouettes at 500 yards but would much rather have had my Seekins AR I have now LOL

[striped1]

Shooting on props and barricades can also cause deflection to a non-freefloat barrel. It is amazing how little pressure can result in deflection. You can move point of impact a few inches or more just from changing where on the handguard you are resting and the amount of pressure.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I wouldn't shoot a major match without one.

[Ted Murphy]

Thank you for the information. I wasn't trying to troll or cheap out on my next rifle, but the curiosity got to me.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Ted Murphy

[SinistralRifleman]

I deliberately shot SMM3G without one this year, using a basic M4ish configuration in Tac Limited. At that match I don't think it was a limiting factor, but they do of course help. I think the carbine gas system cycling more violently slowed me down more than not having a free float tube.

If your budget is limited: order of priorities should be match trigger, then brake/comp, then free float tube.

Edited April 24, 2014 by SinistralRifleman

[Jesse Tischauser]

They are never needed if you don't put pressure on your barrel. Too frequently that pressure is applied because you're not thinking about not applying pressure. I know anybody that's run a timer for any amount of time has watched the new shooter with his M4 miss high and time out because he was putting pressure on the barrel during support.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Jesse Tischauser

[MarkCO]

I can deal with a mil spec trigger, flash hider, etc., but would not go without a fft.

[SinistralRifleman]

They are never needed if you don't put pressure on your barrel. Too frequently that pressure is applied because you're not thinking about not applying pressure. I know anybody that's run a timer for any amount of time has watched the new shooter with his M4 miss high and time out because he was putting pressure on the barrel during support.

The big thing I see is noobs resting on exposed bare barrel and deflecting by as much as 10" at 100 yards. The effect seems less on hand guards, but it is still there if they crank down on them.

[Doug H.]

I used to run a 12" tube and at Ironman a couple of years ago I ended up resting my barrel on a prop. At about 250 yards I was hitting about a foot high. I didn't realize what was happening until the RO told me after I finished. I bought a Carbon Arms 15" fft and have not regretted it at all. If you are starting from scratch and want to go cheap you can get a fft for close to $50. Not as spiffy as the cool ones but completely functional.

Doug

[StealthyBlagga]

Many factors feed into accuracy - bear in mind that military M855 ammo, which the Marines were likely using, is typically only 3-4MOA ammo. A FF handguard certainly helps, and for the modest cost (basic tubes start under $50) it should be a no-brainer upgrade. However I would not characterize them as absolutely "necessary"... I recommend newbies run whatever they have and enjoy the sport, then upgrade as funds allow. Sinistral has the order of upgrades right IMHO.

[kellyn]

I'd say the answer is yes, it's an essential component to a 3 gun rifle. Free floating certainly helps accuracy but more importantly it allows the rifle to interface with props without causing point of impact shifts.

[isto]

Hi,

I agree with Kellyn. FF tubes are necessary for shooting using props as support. When I was still competing with a SIG 551, I lost places in national level matches due to this. Kept missing far away plates due to the POI change, even though they were not huge. FF tubes are relatively cheap option and would be my next upgrade to a new rifle after match trigger set and a comp. Only fourth on the list would then be low mass bolt and adjustable gas block, if the rifle came with milspec ones. To avoid all this upgrading, I buy have bought my AR-rifles custom built to have all of this form day 1.

/isto

[JBOT5000]

Another thing to look at is the heat issue. My non free float knights armament tubes get hot as hell when I start getting on them hard at work. Its not fun to burn your hand in the middle of a stage. The free floats are more accurate, run cooler and have a lot more options on the market.

[Wild Gene]

I do not know that much on the subject, so bear with me.

Can I put any standard FFT on an LWRC M6 A3? It is a piston gun. It is very very accurate, but sort of heavy for 3Gun.

If I can, which one would you suggest?

Thank you!

[troupe]

A cheap $40 tube will increase your accuracy.

[MarkCO]

The free float tube should be rigid and light, but don't go cheap as that usually means a cheap barrel nut, which is more important than most people think.

[Wild Gene]

Thanks. I should clear this up, the LWRC comes as a free floating barrel, it is just covered with 1913 rail on all four sides rather than a smooth carbon type tube. In all actuality, I probably am not really going to gain much in weight reduction, as the quadrail is aluminum.