2-Gun: Here to stay or Fad?

[Lee King]

I shot the USCA Nationals. I liked it. It was different from a lot of 3 gun in that it was more run n gun with the rifle. It was their first attempt at any match of this size. There was some weirdness as explained above. Hopefully they will learn, tweak, and grow that match. I would definitely do it again.

[Finbox]

I thought the weirdest stage at the USCA was the stage that had a mandatory use of the sling on the rifle. (forgot the stage #)

You shot 5 rounds at a close target with a pistol with the rifle on a table. Sling the rifle and shoot rifle targets, then have a dump bucket for the rifle to shoot pistol targets without a slung rifle....but the sling is mandatory????

Basicly you had a sling on the rifle when you shot rifle...but never had to use the sling..???

[Jman]

Shotguns are for the birds Rifle, pistol all day!

[Alaskapopo]

I shot the USCA Nationals. I liked it. It was different from a lot of 3 gun in that it was more run n gun with the rifle. It was their first attempt at any match of this size. There was some weirdness as explained above. Hopefully they will learn, tweak, and grow that match. I would definitely do it again.

Sounds like a bad mix of IDPA and two gun.

pat

[Lee King]

I shot the USCA Nationals. I liked it. It was different from a lot of 3 gun in that it was more run n gun with the rifle. It was their first attempt at any match of this size. There was some weirdness as explained above. Hopefully they will learn, tweak, and grow that match. I would definitely do it again.

Sounds like a bad mix of IDPA and two gun.

pat

There was definitely a lot of IDPA-ish kind of stuff for sure. But this was their first venture into this. They teamed up with Noveske as a title sponsor. I think they will learn from it and use the Noveske experience to make it better.

[kellyn]

I can't predict the future of 2 gun or comment on the USCA Nationals but I can say this, a LOT more people have an M4-ish AR15 and a Glock 19 than have an M4-ish AR15, Glock 19 and a Benelli M2/Versamax/Beretta1301.

[mike4045]

I didn't go to the match. After going over the rules and seeing some of the videos I made the decision to skip it. It looked to be different just to be different. I would love to shoot more 2 gun matches but not under these rules. I watched some of the match videos and parts looked like fun. Didn't see much reason for a sling if you are not using it as a sling. Just having it on to shoot. Didn't see much point in the holstering a pistol after use. Hopefully they make some changes to the rules.

[Alaskapopo]

I can't predict the future of 2 gun or comment on the USCA Nationals but I can say this, a LOT more people have an M4-ish AR15 and a Glock 19 than have an M4-ish AR15, Glock 19 and a Benelli M2/Versamax/Beretta1301.

True but I would bet a lot of shooters have an 870 or Mossberg 500 kicking around in their gun safe.

Pat

[orangeman711]

I agree with Sterling. Whatever will bring more people into competition shooting ,and the shooting sports in general I'm all for. I compete in USPSA handgun and any 3-gun. I don't do USCA only because I don't know of an affiliated club around my area.

[Jman]

I can't predict the future of 2 gun or comment on the USCA Nationals but I can say this, a LOT more people have an M4-ish AR15 and a Glock 19 than have an M4-ish AR15, Glock 19 and a Benelli M2/Versamax/Beretta1301.

[JeffWard]

1 gun, 2 gun, 3 gun, tomahawk, throwing knives, and blow darts. It's all good! And good to have options. For the 98% of us that will never win a gun off the prize table, this is our passion and entertainment. I think there is room for everything.

Tomahawk? Cool... I'm in!

[Paul-the new guy]

I shoot quite a bit of IDPA and some USPSA and I shot this carbine match on a whim. They said the round count would be 250 rifle and 200 pistol. It was more like 250 rifle and 80 pistol. It centered around the rifle for sure. I get the rules, because it seems the intention is for you to have your pistol to finish the stage in the event of a malfunction with your rifle. I heard that the dump buckets were added to accomodate the more traditional 3 gun shooters. The rules are kind of IDPAish. It is common to engage the first target with multiple rounds but that is usually done with a down loaded gun. I don't really have anything to compare this match to because this was my first real multi gun match other than a couple of 2 gun fun matches that a local IDPA club used to run. I don't have a shot gun that I could even hope to be competitive with so this worked out good for me.

This match did give me the bug and I have already signed up for Task Force Dagger so I guess I will be shopping for a shot gun

[MarkCO]

Wow Paul. That is like kiddie pool to shark infested waters in one step. You will certainly see a divergence.

[mpeltier]

I shot the USCA Nationals. I liked it. It was different from a lot of 3 gun in that it was more run n gun with the rifle. It was their first attempt at any match of this size. There was some weirdness as explained above. Hopefully they will learn, tweak, and grow that match. I would definitely do it again.

Sounds like a bad mix of IDPA and two gun.

pat

I agree with Lee. I did not find much in common with IDPA. There were a few stipulations here and there that were an attempt to force the competitor to perform things the way the stage designer envisioned it, and with an eye towards bieng more tactical. Most of it was related to sling use and tactical mag changes. The two gun format that USCA has now shows a lot of promis. I don't feel it needs any major tweaking. Just ironing out a few things to applying rules more uniformly and maybee some stage designing rules to allow stage design to dictate certain aspects rather than having to spell it out. I hope it's here to stay, it won't replace 3-gun but will be a nice addition.

[Paul-the new guy]

Wow Paul. That is like kiddie pool to shark infested waters in one step. You will certainly see a divergence.

I have a couple of months to figure it out... I am going to shoot some local 3 gun matches between now and then and hope I don't make too poor of a showing

[kellyn]

I can't predict the future of 2 gun or comment on the USCA Nationals but I can say this, a LOT more people have an M4-ish AR15 and a Glock 19 than have an M4-ish AR15, Glock 19 and a Benelli M2/Versamax/Beretta1301.

True but I would bet a lot of shooters have an 870 or Mossberg 500 kicking around in their gun safe.

Pat

True +1 BUT I think shotgun scares off the new shooter more than any other gun. If they have mil experience, they have some T & E with the rifle. If they have LEO experience, they have some T&E with the pistol (maybe some minimal with the shotgun). They probably have a few spare mags and mag pouches for their AR and pistol.

What the potential new practical shooter doesn't have is any real T&E with shotgun or the gear. Another thing they don't have is the loading skill set which is of uber importance in 3 gun. They don't have a TWinS kit laying around. There is a 2 Gun match in AZ and it get a WHOLE seperate group than the 3 gun matches do. I'm glad they have a place ot shoot.

It is also a lot easier to show up at a match with an M4-ish AR with an Aimpoint and be competitive than it is with your standard "tactical" 870.

[Finbox]

PAUL shoot the Universal shooting acadmy match in Frostproof on Dec 28...and or the Hernado shooting club match on Dec 29 both are great local Florida 3 gun matches.

[chevyoneton]

Forgive me but what I am hearing is: Have to have THREE guns, wah, wah ,wah. Have to carry THREE guns, wah, wah ,wah. Have to have gear for THREE guns, wah, wah ,wah. Have to learn to shoot THREE guns, wah, wah ,wah. Have to learn to load THREE guns, wah, wah ,wah. That about sum it up?

Seriously, some people will never move beyond 2-Gun (pistol/carbine), and that is O.K. Some will use it as a stepping stone to 3-Gun, and that is better. Some 3-Gunners will do it because we like 2-Guns more than just 1-Gun and there may not be a 3-Gun match that weekend or one close enough to realistically get to. What I would not like to see is what I fear, people put on a 2-Gun match INSTEAD of a 3-Gun match because they don’t want to deal with 3-Guns for whatever reason.

[theKenny]

PAUL shoot the Universal shooting acadmy match in Frostproof on Dec 28...and or the Hernado shooting club match on Dec 29 both are great local Florida 3 gun matches.

Finbox, if you do not already you should shoot the Malabar 3 gun on the 3rd Sat of every month. stages are very challenging.

[Mike P]

I wonder what kind of participation 3-gun would get over 2-gun if full powered SG loads were required, either by rules or steel settings? I mean a whole 2 day match with SD loads and slugs.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, the ammo would be expensive, sure, but the Chiropractor would probably be even more.

[AustinT]

I wonder what kind of participation 3-gun would get over 2-gun if full powered SG loads were required, either by rules or steel settings? I mean a whole 2 day match with SD loads and slugs.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, the ammo would be expensive, sure, but the Chiropractor would probably be even more.

Er....why?

That's equivalent to what I use 50%+ of the time anyway, heavy AAs. Full power buck has a little more oomph, but not much. Reduced recoil buck and slugs have less recoil than my birdshot.

[Sterling White]

Seriously, some people will never move beyond 2-Gun (pistol/carbine), and that is O.K.

I agree with this statement.

Last month Norco Run'n Gun hosted a rifles only (carbine match) with all divisions recognized including CA-Legal. The match was set up in the same fashion that weekly IPSC pistol matches - basically same stage designs with the addition of one 80 yard stage with a couple of shooting positions. Over 100 competitors came out to play of which many were not weekly pistolaro's or local 3gnr's. Match rules were similar to 3g - time plus including 1alpha or 2 on; clays must be broken; and steel must fall or be called as a hit.

And it looks like the carbine matches will become part of the norm as a club match. Plans are in the works to host another one.

Here is a link to Jojo's combined 2 stages vid: http://youtu.be/g7wxjN9m1_4

Edited November 22, 2013 by Sterling White

[Hi-Power Jack]

Put me in the column of not wanting to shoot shotguns.

We have a local Multigun match (tomorrow, as a matter of fact:)) where I have

shot either all open pistol, or open pistol and my AR15 on 1-2 stages.

Shots are never over 40-50 yards.

I get to shoot the shotgun stages with the pistol - while everyone is trying to

stuff more shotgun shells in their shotguns, I'm already back on the bench

reloading my mags:))

[TroyB]

I like shooting the rifle, but I could really go for some pistol and shotgun. Actually haven't had either one within two hours drive here besides pistol for a while now, just give me something...

[MetropolisLake]

I like shotguns more than anything but to be honest it's not real practical, it's only a bunch of fun to blast stuff. Seriously, how on earth is wearing some funky vest with stacks of two shells so you can stuff bird shot in your gun 12 shells at a time actually practical and testing some kind of usable skill? It's just not. The things that ARE practical, such as skeet, nobody really wants to do in 3-gun. Otherwise, the rifle and pistol spills over into the tactical world but shotguns are really only used for blowing hinges off doors nowadays so there's really no reason for anybody to practice many of these shotgun skills outside of 3-gun. 2-gun should theoretically be much more realistic.