Paul B Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The thread on moving hot from stage to stage in one bay started me thinking. Having been around this sport for 3 decades I have seen a lot of evolution - some good and some not so good. The really good is that there seems to be a lot more interest than in the past from a lot more competitors and the equipment choices are tremendous. One not so good part in my estimation are the huge expansion in the non-shooting time we all have to experience at matches. The size of squads has gone up from around 6-8 when I started (sometimes 4-5) to a normal of 10-15 and sometimes even 20. Also going up is the number of stages clubs want to run in matches. I understand clubs with physical limitations that have to double up stages in one pit but with a few exceptions these often result in exceptionally long wait times between stages and during stages. I also understand where there are two short stages in one pit they can run pretty fast, but not with props and more than 12 rounds per stage. If a club has only three bays they should probably limit themselves to 4 stages. If they have 5 bays try to have a match with 5 stages rather than 8. For me this reduces the boredom factor and the stand around time significantly. Maybe it just because I cannot relax at a match and really envy those who can actually take a nap - they will shoot better rested while I am tired from anticipation after taking 7 hours to shoot 6 stages. My apologies to those who enjoy the stand time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm not a good waiter .. er .. er either. Did one long range rifle match last year. Shooters were able to take all the timed they wanted to put three shots down range. My longest wait, between stages, was 1 hour and 10 minutes. Nope, that game is not for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I have found it best to not wear a watch during matches in recent years. It only adds to the frustration. ETA: But, on the bright side is you get a lot of practice on "first stages", since they all seem like the first of the day. Edited October 17, 2013 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 holy crap! 20 people on a squad? I think I would go home. Or get involved with putting on the match so it could be done right. Squad sizes of 8-12 seem to be optimal for local matches where the RO/scorekeeper are part of the squad. with a shooter, on-deck shooter, and up to 2 shooters who just shot and are cleaning mags and reloading, it still leaves you 2-6 people to paste and reset and pick up brass. Our club shoots for 10 as a squad size, and if we have 41 shooters, one squad gets 11, or if we have 38, 2 squads get 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkman Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) holy crap! 20 people on a squad? I think I would go home. Or get involved with putting on the match so it could be done right. Squad sizes of 8-12 seem to be optimal for local matches where the RO/scorekeeper are part of the squad. with a shooter, on-deck shooter, and up to 2 shooters who just shot and are cleaning mags and reloading, it still leaves you 2-6 people to paste and reset and pick up brass. Our club shoots for 10 as a squad size, and if we have 41 shooters, one squad gets 11, or if we have 38, 2 squads get 9. What do you do when 90 people show up? Turn em away? Do you have pre sign ups and a cut off? Down our way 18 per squad is a regular sunday match at most of the clubs in the bay area. Curious. Al Edited October 17, 2013 by Inkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 holy crap! 20 people on a squad? I think I would go home. Or get involved with putting on the match so it could be done right. Squad sizes of 8-12 seem to be optimal for local matches where the RO/scorekeeper are part of the squad. with a shooter, on-deck shooter, and up to 2 shooters who just shot and are cleaning mags and reloading, it still leaves you 2-6 people to paste and reset and pick up brass. Our club shoots for 10 as a squad size, and if we have 41 shooters, one squad gets 11, or if we have 38, 2 squads get 9. What do you do when 90 people show up? Turn em away? Do you have pre sign ups and a cut off? Down our way 18 per squad is a regular sunday match at most of the clubs in the bay area. Curious. Al We haven't had that problem yet, although we have had a similar issue in steel challenge, and we adapted our match to start accomodating larger fields. I think if you have 90 people showing up regularly, you have several options; increase entry fee, create more stages (if you have bays available), spread out and run a morning and an afternoon squadding.... Our matches normally only take 3-4 hrs, so during the summer, the split squadding would work. We have 7 central and easily accessible bays, so we could put up another speed shoot and another field course without too much trouble, and accomodate 80-ish shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Increase fees? To what end? To decrease shooters showing up? Lets double the USPSA membership while we are at it, it would make running things easier. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 (edited) Increase fees? To what end? To decrease shooters showing up? Lets double the USPSA membership while we are at it, it would make running things easier. Wow. To pay for construction of new bays or other club improvements to increase capacity? It's simple economics. Many shooters might rather pay $15 for a match they can shoot in 4 hrs vs $7 for a match that takes 7-8 hrs. Wouldn't you? Not sure why you jumped on that one item in a list of possibilities, but whatever. Edited October 18, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbinster Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Two of the three clubs I go to limit the number of people. Those two also have online sign ups, so if you plan ahead you don't risk showing up and being told its already full. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 There are a couple of matches in my area which do exactly this. 5 stages in 4 berms, with typically 20+ per squad. Most of the best shooters in the state attend, so the stages are pretty well designed, but in the interest of keeping 20 man squads moving the stages are low round count and the matches are usually sub 100 rd. Turn outs are huge, so I guess the venues are successful, but driving 2 hrs each way, just to spend 7 hrs shooting 80-90rds, just ain't my bag. Too many other matches in the area to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Because you did not state the point in raising the fee...was a solution given among a list of others. Match day is as much social as it is about shooting, fer me any way. About 5 hours is a good day at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Work time + wait time were a couple of the reasons I started shooting trap and 5 stand. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Work the stages more, limit signup either day off or via pre-sign up, add more stages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 I am not one who worries a lot about how long the match takes. If I don't have all day I stay home. I enjoy the range, the company the shooting, setting up, tearing down, waiting for stats. I enjoy it all. It is a fun time for me. I do not induce stress into the day by rushing. I have plenty of stress and rush and deadlines elsewhere in my life. There are people all over the world who wish they could spend all day with a gun strapped to their hip on a gun range. We are blessed. I don't get the dissatisfaction with a day at the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Lawboy...amen. Exactly what I tried to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 our match days are getting longer. but what befuddles me is , why are we still starting at ten am and we set up the day prior. first round should be 7 am Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I also enjoy the entire experience. A day at the range with the right people can be quite entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawboy Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) We start at 9 at the club's in our area. The reasons are that range rules prohibit shots before 9 a.m. due to good neighbor policies, and local noise ordinances also prohibit earlier shooting. Edited October 19, 2013 by lawboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'm from the opposite opinion. I like shooting and hanging out with my friends, but I also have a lot of other things I need to get done on the weekends. Spending all day driving/shooting/driving isn't my idea of fun. If a 5 stage match takes 5 hours to shoot and tear down, something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 If a 5 stage match takes 5 hours to shoot and tear down, something is wrong. Depends on a lot of things. Headcount for starters. Ours has been low this year but in the past we have pushed 100 shooters per match. You can't get 5 20 man squads done that fast unless you really like lame stages. Also, tear down is more involved unless of course, again, you like lame stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 And no one likes lame stages.... Rememember, only you can prevent lame stages. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Increase fees? To what end? To decrease shooters showing up? Lets double the USPSA membership while we are at it, it would make running things easier. Wow. To pay for construction of new bays or other club improvements to increase capacity? It's simple economics. Many shooters might rather pay $15 for a match they can shoot in 4 hrs vs $7 for a match that takes 7-8 hrs. Wouldn't you? Not sure why you jumped on that one item in a list of possibilities, but whatever. Absolutely. Match fee's are 20 bucks in area 7. Some of the more popular matches in the area got totally out of hand and outgrew there facilties and regular 6 stage 3 short, 3 long, in 3 bays was a 6-7 hour affair. with 50+ shooters coming out even in crap weather. This makes for very long periods of no shooting. The club saw the money, expanded to another bay, broke it to 5 stages, and clearance times were cut in half. Now its a 3 hours match. I would pay double for a match that was half the time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBQDawg Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Maybe it's because I'm new to the sport, but we usually have about 12 people per squad on 5 stages. I enjoy the camaraderie, helping paste the targets, talking with the more experienced shooters who are very helpful in telling me what to do; what not to do; how I could do it better; etc. I also hang around afterward, help tear down the stages, pick up and sort brass, wait for scores, and just have a good time with all of it. I, too, have plenty of stress during the week and really enjoy the day. Always looking forward to the next shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 our match days are getting longer. but what befuddles me is , why are we still starting at ten am and we set up the day prior. first round should be 7 am We start at 9 at the club's in our area. The reasons are that range rules prohibit shots before 9 a.m. due to good neighbor policies, and local noise ordinances also prohibit earlier shooting. It also gives us (out of towners) time to get to the match. I go to a routinely go to matches that take a 2-1/2 hour drive. I doubt I'll get up at 4 am to get to a 7 am start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Instead of having dedicated squads, why not just let people trickle in on their own and shoot with whomever they want? Have a window that starts at 8 AM and closes at 10AM. If there is a log jam at one stage, people, just like electricity will go the path of least resistance. "Oh, look stage 4 is empty! Let's go there. We'll do stage 3 later." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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