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Running The stage during the walk through


a matt

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In my vocation I do a lot of work with the brain and neuronic connections and such. Brain research has shown that actually doing an activity, and thinking about doing the activity but just in your mind, fire almost the exact same parts of the brain. Thus, visualization is almost as effective. Now that I have a year's experience in USPSA, I've noticed that visualization seems to work just fine for me.

I walk a stage just to check sight lines and shooting order and such. I might run a very particular transition or entrance or exit. But then I just "shoot" the stage in my brain several times before I'm on deck. I've never had more than just a minor brain fart. It always seems to feel like I am shooting the stage the same way like I have many times before, even though it is technically the first time.

Plus, my two clubs always seem to have a lot of people brassing and walking about. I would never be able to get in a full run even I wanted to.

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  • 4 months later...
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Lots of good stuff here.

The most important thing I see from all of these is visualization.

I will walk the stage, look for all of the targets(no fun to miss one), make sure all my counted shots equal the stage description. Find the spot(s) where I'll need to be ready to engage targets, plan my reloads and the next move. Once I have been through it, found all the targets and have a plan.

Run it again and again in my mind. I agree with CHLChris, you're body and mind won't know the difference between actually having run it and running through it in your mind.

I do like to go through once at match speed, making sure to take the time needed to see what I need to see for each shot.

Then, when you actually run the stage it's like you've done it before. You don't have to think about what you are going to do, you just do it.

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In my vocation I do a lot of work with the brain and neuronic connections and such. Brain research has shown that actually doing an activity, and thinking about doing the activity but just in your mind, fire almost the exact same parts of the brain. Thus, visualization is almost as effective. Now that I have a year's experience in USPSA, I've noticed that visualization seems to work just fine for me.

I walk a stage just to check sight lines and shooting order and such. I might run a very particular transition or entrance or exit. But then I just "shoot" the stage in my brain several times before I'm on deck. I've never had more than just a minor brain fart. It always seems to feel like I am shooting the stage the same way like I have many times before, even though it is technically the first time.

Plus, my two clubs always seem to have a lot of people brassing and walking about. I would never be able to get in a full run even I wanted to.

That brassing thing woud have to stop, with the quickness. I shoot SuperComp at .15 cent each I want mine back too but I'm not going get in the way of other shooters or not paste just to get my brass back. That should be done after the match on my own time. Thank you.
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I remember eric grafell's take on this (I'm paraphrasing here, just the basic idea of what he was saying). but he said basically he walks through the stage, figures out his stage plan then runs it in his mind. he is very, very good at the visualization thing. he can run some pretty complex stages in his mind without having shot them and tell to a pretty small margin what his time is going to be and what hit factor the stage will be if his run goes as planned.

running the stage at full tilt is not so important I think. getting a good plan of the way to shoot it and then visualizing it over and over is the way to go. That's my opinion anyway. :)

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  • 2 months later...

Your walkthrough is your program. Program it EXACTLY as you will shoot it. That's what's going to happen anyways. Hold your hands the same as they sit on the gun. Move only your finger when firing each shot, and move through the stage at the same speed you are going to shoot it. This includes transitions and aiming time. It's very hard to get a decent walkthrough, but try to politely ask people to move when they are in your way (when on deck) and even with a pause or two try to get at least one full speed run in. It will help a LOT. If everyone did this, they would realize how important it is to let the on deck shooter have right of way because they would feel how important a full speed program is.

I agree completely. The motion and momentum/timing aspects of a good performance require FEELING each transition real time, for each stage.

Another thing to mention here is, if you do a walkthru like 99% of the people do, you will have a 100% target focus the whole time. Do you shoot like that? Nope, except on a few very close targets. So if you rehearse that way, using a target focus only, then you are training yourself to do exactly that when you actually shoot it - and then wonder why all the bad hits and mikes and N/S's. All because you programmed yourself to shoot the stage WITHOUT AIMING!! You can remedy this by using an aiming device to form sight pictures with, such as your thumb, or preferably a writing pen, shell casing, or as I do, the top of a writing pen held in your hand simulating a front sight, and see each sight picture on each target with it as you walk thru. That is exactly how you WILL see it while shooting it, so makes the walkthru much more realistic and useful. (note I have studied the rules on this and even spoken with Troy McMannus specifically about it, and as long as you are not using a replica gun, as the rules say, you are not violating the rules = Lots of misinformation abounds about this, such as that using a water bottle is prohibited. All is BS!).

8.7.2 Competitors are prohibited from using any guns or gun replicas as sighting aids while conducting their inspection (“walkthrough”) of a course of fire. Violations will incur one procedural penalty per occurrence (also see Rule 10.5.1).

Just because it is "hard" to get a proper walkthru due to crowds of often inconsiderate shooters in the way, does not mean it is not the proper way to perform the walkthru.

I usually come to big matches a full day early so that I can do this, for sure. And I video my walkthru of each stage with my cell phone, narrating the salient points as I do it, and can then study and memorize the stage, from first person viewpoint, back in my hotel while resting.

At many large matches, the shooters in a squad will line up obediently and considerately for the 5 minute period, and this gives a better chance at getting thru one at actual speed, without interruption. But no likely. Waiting to initially walkthru a stage when your squad comes to shoot it, is to me, completely unacceptable. Unless it is an extremely simple stage, or you are far more intelligent than me, there is no way you are going to be ready to shoot it well fighting with 10 others in a 5 minute period.

Same thing for making ready process. Me and Eddie Garcia taped and ran the clock for 20 shooters on one stage today, waiting for our chance to shoot it. I ran the clock on Eddie's run. He took 3 minutes after the make ready command and I applauded him. Of course he could not walk thru after the make ready, but he could mentally rehearse it many times. And he did. So, for that stage alone, we spent a full hour there pasting, why would you NOT take 3 minutes to get your head together before shooting it? People rush all the wrong stuff and then screw off when they should be rushing or hurrying.

Anyway, my attitude is, do it right, or stay at home and don't waste your time. If you cannot mentally go thru each stage in great detail, real time, with your eyes closed, then you are NOT READY TO SHOOT IT. period. So you decide what it takes for you to be able to do that, and then do it. For me, it is often studying every stage in advance, and on the most difficult memory types, I will spend OVER an hour learning it sufficiently to be able to put up an M class performance on it. The more experienced and skilled you are, the faster you can do this. But you have to do it.

Edited by Robco
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absolutely true. I ran a poll a year or so ago here posing the question: how many times do you rehearse a stage before you shoot it and how many times do think the top shooters rehearse the same stage before they shoot it. I had already had a long discussion with several top shooters I had trained with and they all said the same thing ... continually until its my turn to shoot. the answers from the rank & file were all over the map with lots of heavy rationalization as to why it was ok to do it that way. Of course they also admitted to making mistakes on stages that were a direct result to not being able to close your eyes and run the entire stage (every target, every position, every transition ,etc) in your head. As you said, if you can't do this this then you are simply not ready to shoot - period.

I do like you a big matches and spend the day before walking every stage and making a solid plan for each one. I don't go to my hotel until I have a plan for every stage. I also watch how others shoot it if is is particularly complex the day before I shoot it as well. When I walk up to a stage at the match I'm already ready to shoot it because I already have my stage plan memorized - a quick check to ensure nothing has changed and then I'm ready to start visualization again.

I hardly ever talk at those matches ... when there are 2 shooters in front of me I go off to the side and just visualize, no more helping with the stage until after I'm done shooting & prepping for the next stage. Just like most rank & file shooters don't really have any idea what it takes to make GM, they don't realize how important the ability to visualize a stage is.

hadn't really thought about the target vs sight focus thing on walk thru but that's a get point ... I'll be getting out the pen in my range pack for the next match ...!

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I hardly ever talk at those matches ... when there are 2 shooters in front of me I go off to the side and just visualize, no more helping with the stage until after I'm done shooting & prepping for the next stage. Just like most rank & file shooters don't really have any idea what it takes to make GM, they don't realize how important the ability to visualize a stage is.

hadn't really thought about the target vs sight focus thing on walk thru but that's a get point ... I'll be getting out the pen in my range pack for the next match ...!

nimitz: I agree. I do talk at matches when I am not coming up any time soon as shooter, and I find it makes me perform better simply because (apparently) it forces me to lighten up a little and not be so serious. I am obviously balls deep into this game (In case you have not noticed HA! :bow: ) But I do not let anyone interfere with my own game. That takes a lot of diligence and some diplomacy but is a social skill I possess.

In example, I am good friends with Travis Tomasie (T), and know how to respect top performers' on match day. The superstars get hounded to death by well - meaning but inconsiderate aspiring shooters so badly that it is worse than paparazzi!T has learned to trust my stage strategy/analysis so much that when he arrives at a big match, if we run into each other walking the stages or shooting, he asks me if, for example, there are any "memory" stages or tough ones he needs to look at. Usually, I have already learned them all so I give him my rundown. He then can spend only 2 minutes on the stage and either use mine or alter it, without having to spend a half hour he does not have available to scout it or all of them out. As most know, T is so damn nice and polite, that he gets taken advantage of and imposed on often (my observation not any whining from T). At the Florida open 2 weeks ago, we met and he asked about the stages as usual, and I said let's go walk them. Well the morning squads were all shooting already and the afternoon squads had already arrived, so there were 400 shooters up and down the range. He said, could we just go over them there, where we were standing, out of the main path and visibility, because if we walk the stages he will end up talking to folks the whole time and of course, he would never be rude or hurt anyone's feelings telling them to FO, he is busy! So I drew them in the sand, literally and explained the cruxes and choices on the several stages he could not instantly internalize. Now I am not bragging or name dropping here, as you should know with me by now. Just making a few points. 1) I am pretty good at stage analysis, 2) I am trusted by T - he has always shot every stage exactly as I did or one of the alternatives I identified to him (only a lot better than I shot them !!) 3) T still rehearsed each stage MANY times after confirming he liked my plan.

If the top shooters have to do this, then who the hell do all the rest of the pack think they are NOT doing this themselves?

Another point of view, and a very valid one and relevant to me, is that if you are investing the time and money to shoot a big match, presumably having to travel and stay in hotels to do so, then why wouldn't you do everything you could to make the few minutes you will actually be shooting the match, optimized and maximized! Spend a month training for a big match, spend 4 days at the match itself, with all the travel and ammo costs, and then you will spend 3 or 4 MINUTES actually performing. Hmm. I think it is just plain stupid not to leverage your investment by learning the stages a bit. Even the GREAT shooters have brain farts when they don't. My good friend Manny Bragg, forgot a whole 3 target array in the Florida State in January. He won almost every stage in the match but that one stage cost him the win. I bet he was too busy to spend the time learning the stages, because these top guys can analyze a stage WAY faster than we can. Even though they arrive at the exact same plan I do, they do it in 3 minutes where it took me 15 minutes (to decide on plan, NOT including memorizing it).

It is the same as a shooter not checking to see that his mag is fully loaded before stepping to the line. We all laugh when they run dry after 5 rounds during a stage, but what is the difference in that or forgetting targets? None, they are the same - lack of preparation and process.

Watch Todd Jarrett during his make ready process. He drives the RO's crazy. Todd will load and then drop every mag on his belt during make ready period, always, even if it is a 12 round stage and he has 4 20 round mags on his belt! I love it. And I do the same, at least for the mag I am starting with. Learned it from him. Some fat ass might have stepped on that mag while pasting and it could be deformed and not drop out. Only one way to know!

Or my favorite, after seeing a guy have 3 gun malfunctions on one stage, say that they have not cleaned their guns in 6 months, as if bragging about that! Hmmmm. Stay happy then................ like this was "unavoidable" and not the shooter's fault!

Anyway, it just amazes me the gap between talking the talk, about being "serious" about competing in our sport, and the relative few who Walk the Walk. Cleaning your gun or making sure your mags are fully loaded and KNOWING the stage completely are not "skill" issues, they are attitude and process issues. Don't do them at the cost of your competitiveness. Wonder what their carry guns will do if they ever need them?

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^ Great post as always Rob, my wife's been pissed about all the time I spend reading your short novels lately.

HAHA! Take her out to the range and burn some rounds with her! She might get hooked!

Finally got my wife shooting 3 months ago, after she has done our club stats and admin and website for 3 years in Cody, without participating! It can be done! :cheers:

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^ Great post as always Rob, my wife's been pissed about all the time I spend reading your short novels lately.

HAHA! Take her out to the range and burn some rounds with her! She might get hooked!

Finally got my wife shooting 3 months ago, after she has done our club stats and admin and website for 3 years in Cody, without participating! It can be done! :cheers:

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this above. When I learn the stages so well ahead of my match day, I get to see all the squad members in AWE of me like I am some kind of genius prodigy who just does not even once walk the stage during the 5 minutes, walks up when on deck, walks thru perfectly and smoothly the first time and I am ready to shoot! HA! Really screws with their minds when they are still trying to verify even where all the targets are when the 5 minutes is up. No different than the kid in school who always appears smart, simply because they actually DID their homework. Duh...... paying the dues and price to be as ready as possible on game day is not rocket science.

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our local club here in central Fl has a reputation for putting on some of the toughest matches so from my very first match I had to learn to develop the ability to visualize ... like you, while everyone else is rying to figure out the stage just take one walkthru to verify everything and I'm good to go ...

when you take a class from Ben Stoeger the first thing he usually does is set up a stage, then look at everyoen and say "you have 5 mins" and we start shooting. The first time we did this I told him after my run after performing an extra reload that I wasn't very good at only getting 5 mins to figure out a stage plan and he said "nobody is any good at doing that". His point being you need to figure out stages ahead of time & learn to visualize .... never truer words were ever spoken ...

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I'm not sure it needs to be a big deal whether you walk or run, as long as you visualize running. I don't get to shoot my gun during walkthrough, but I know what shooting a gun feels like. Likewise, I know what running and slowing/stopping feels like, and what stepping out as I fire the last shot at a position feels like. It seems that for me it helps quite a bit to add those extra bits to the visualization. If i visualize stepping out hard after the last shot, then reaching for the reload that seems to be what actually happens when I shoot the stage. Yeah, rocket surgery, I know.

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I'm not sure it needs to be a big deal whether you walk or run, as long as you visualize running. I don't get to shoot my gun during walkthrough, but I know what shooting a gun feels like. Likewise, I know what running and slowing/stopping feels like, and what stepping out as I fire the last shot at a position feels like. It seems that for me it helps quite a bit to add those extra bits to the visualization. If i visualize stepping out hard after the last shot, then reaching for the reload that seems to be what actually happens when I shoot the stage. Yeah, rocket surgery, I know.

Yes, actually running in a walkthru is "icing on the cake," compared to the vast majority of other aspects that can be gained simply by walking the stage. Unusual or awkward positions should be felt though during the walkthru, whether it is a wicked lean, or kneeling/prone, or a climb to a perch etc. As those are not things you would normally be able to effectively visualize otherwise.And if you RUN thru a full energy walkthru, 20 times, you will literally be worn out. Especially doing so on 15 different stages, 20 times each! I actually do that the day before a match, and it is one heck of a workout. So I would NOT waste that explosive energy needed, doing more than one full speed walkthru when readying to shoot the stage.

By the way, if we COULD use a gun replica in a walkthru it would be twice as effective, no doubt about it. I do it in practice at my own private range and it is much more effective when compared to an "air-gun" walkthru.

Which brings up the general point, that the more real a simulation can be, the more valuable and effective the learning value of the rehearsal. Clearly this encompasses the FEEL aspect and learning process/pathway to our minds. It is one thing to imagine a dynamic, movement event, and quite another to actually experience it. I want my walkthru of a stage to be as close as possible to the real run, including the temporal aspect of it. I see many less experienced shooters (like myself until Charlie Perez taught me otherwise at the 2013 Nationals) running through a stage walkthru at least TWICE as fast as the match winner could possibly shoot it. That is training to do the same thing in the actual live performance. And a B class shooter rehearsing to shoot at 2X GM speed is not going to work out well.

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Some great stuff in this thread....

I have shot in less than 10 matches so far but the stages I have "run thru" when I was on deck went much better when I was on the clock. People have been pretty good about letting the "on deck" shooter have the course of fire in the matches I have shot so far. Moving thru the course at the speed I plan on taking when I'm on the clock has really seemed to help me.

Thank you for spending the time to post the information about your prep in detail. The matches I have shot have been local matches and I get to the range early to help set-up, but there is often not enough time to walk and learn each stage fully set-up before its time to start the match.

Thanks again for the tips.

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Some great stuff in this thread....

I have shot in less than 10 matches so far but the stages I have "run thru" when I was on deck went much better when I was on the clock. People have been pretty good about letting the "on deck" shooter have the course of fire in the matches I have shot so far. Moving thru the course at the speed I plan on taking when I'm on the clock has really seemed to help me.

Thank you for spending the time to post the information about your prep in detail. The matches I have shot have been local matches and I get to the range early to help set-up, but there is often not enough time to walk and learn each stage fully set-up before its time to start the match.

Thanks again for the tips.

Malcom31- One thing I am learning from my own experience and working with lots of shooters at differing levels of skill and experience is that "one size does NOT fit all on most techniques, processes, etc." And the follow up on that statement is that at any given TIME and POINT in a shooter's development, a particular technique may or may NOT be appropriate for them personally. Later, maybe, but not now. Even similarly classified shooters will have many differences in their skill levels on any given component of our sport. Add to this individual personality, physical, conditioning, body type and mental differences and there is a huge spectrum of capacities brought to each component by each shooter.

In the present discussion, it has to be considered that for any given shooter, moving through a stage walkthrough at full speed may or may not be best for them. For one thing, the more advanced and skilled a shooter is on movement skills, the more they will benefit from a full speed walkthrough rehearsal, because they have learned to rely on FEEL and momentum development and stopping to a high degree. You cannot simulate such momentum and the resultant timings of the entries and exits, without a full speed movement sequence. On the other hand, the REALLY top shooters are so familiar with all of these metrics having done them so many times, that they can accurately imagine/visualize these aspects in a walkthrough, without having to waste the energy simulating them.

Same thing applies to dry fire work, generally. The very new beginners can benefit a lot from dry fire practice, mostly for gun handling and not sight picture purposes. And the Very Highly experienced shooters know enough from lots of actual live fire to honestly simulate the actual trigger control and visual sight work while dry firing. While Mid-level shooters (or ANY level if they are not careful) can really do damage to their shooting by dry firing improperly IF they do not keep it realistic.

At my level, low M class starting 5th year now, I prefer to use full speed walkthroughs for at least the last few of my 10- 20 runs while learning the stage. Mostly because I am still a rookie at working on and learning the advance movement skills. I also work hard at obtaining proper and realistic sight pictures for each shot and good (air) trigger control for each shot during a walkthrough. I used to race through a 18 second (for a GM) course of fire, in 8 seconds in my walkthrough until Charlie Perez pointed out that error to me in the 2013 Nationals. That is worse than not walking through at all, in my opinion. Do that type of memory work standing still with your eyes closed- but not air gunning through the course of fire. Keep the two separate. I.e., if you are doing an actual walkthrough, air-gunning to simulate the actual stage performance you plan to do, then MAKE IT REALISTIC in the most minute details, not "kind of like" what you intend to do. Even the very TOP shooters do this. Yesterday I watched Sevigny, Nils, and Krogh shoot two stages at Area 2, after I finished my own shooting for the day. They do their walkthroughs like I do, which is no coincidence. I learned HOW by watching and training with them! Imitate until you master it and only then can you consider bettering it.

Edited by Robco
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I'm of the opinion now I only "run" during the walk through to either check 1. and awkward entry or exit of a shooting position or primarily 2. to check the available traction or lack there of in the bay's surface.

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Running, Walking, Crawling, or Visualizing..... Do whatever it takes for YOU to get the job done properly. The number one mistake I see shooters make on a regular basis is to dry fire the stage at a speed that is 2 - 3 times faster than reality. If your practice of the actions to perform during the stage are unrealistically fast then you are "Burning In" the wrong expectation of performance once the buzzer goes off. When your programmed plan gets derailed because you are going 2 - 3 times slower than what you practiced then the wheels come off the wagon because you mentally feel like you are behind schedule. Mentally feeling behind schedule usually results in you trying to rush things to get back on schedule. This is usually when the whole stage run implodes and you revert to blasting at any target you see while frantically scampering around the stage in an uncoordinated fashion.

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I love running the stage in the walk through, assuming there is available space to do so and I am not interfering with other competitors. It helps me figure out markers and decelerating into the proper positions. It is just one step closer to rehearsing the stage execution than walking for me. The only problem is it burns up the SpeedCrosses much, much faster!

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I love running the stage in the walk through, assuming there is available space to do so and I am not interfering with other competitors. It helps me figure out markers and decelerating into the proper positions. It is just one step closer to rehearsing the stage execution than walking for me. The only problem is it burns up the SpeedCrosses much, much faster!

I am with you on this. BUT I am also learning some alternatives now. Doing so COULD be causing me problems of "rushing" my actual stage performance.

Check out this post for example.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=211644#entry2353504

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i will do this prior to match day when I'm learning a stage but on match day during the 5 min walkthrough I don't. Becuase I've figured out my satgae plan long before the 5 min walkthrough I just use that time to walk and confirm stage markers and stop markers and I'm good to go ...

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Same thing applies to dry fire work, generally. The very new beginners can benefit a lot from dry fire practice, mostly for gun handling and not sight picture purposes. And the Very Highly experienced shooters know enough from lots of actual live fire to honestly simulate the actual trigger control and visual sight work while dry firing. While Mid-level shooters (or ANY level if they are not careful) can really do damage to their shooting by dry firing improperly IF they do not keep it realistic.

Great stuff. Thank you for the tips and in depth explanations. Can you go into more detail about dry fire and keeping it realistic? And what specifically can damage your shooting during dry fire and therefore should be avoided?

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Same thing applies to dry fire work, generally. The very new beginners can benefit a lot from dry fire practice, mostly for gun handling and not sight picture purposes. And the Very Highly experienced shooters know enough from lots of actual live fire to honestly simulate the actual trigger control and visual sight work while dry firing. While Mid-level shooters (or ANY level if they are not careful) can really do damage to their shooting by dry firing improperly IF they do not keep it realistic.

Great stuff. Thank you for the tips and in depth explanations. Can you go into more detail about dry fire and keeping it realistic? And what specifically can damage your shooting during dry fire and therefore should be avoided?

First I would recommend some books from which I learned whatever I may know about dry firing. Steve Anderson - his latest and third book is highly recommended. And look into Ben Stoeger books too.

Basically, three main things are not present in Dry fire and can be the source of problems. 1) no actual hole in the paper as positive feedback and 2) no recoil and 3)no trigger control feedback usually.

It would be easy to unintentionally, and even unwittingly be cheating on all of the above while dry firing. You have to pay a lot more attention to executing a proper sight picture and trigger control, essentially SIMULATING realistically, since there will be NO actual feedback outside of your own SEEING and shot calling, etc. E.g., you could pull the trigger to make your par time, without having a sight picture at all in Dry fire and fool yourself into thinking it was properly executed. No miss to prove otherwise. Or you could jerk the trigger and similarly not realize it absent the resulting miss evidence.

So, dry firing, counter-intuitively, requires MORE focus and Attention than live fire demands, because not only must you actually execute all of the actions properly, just as in live fire, but in Dry fire you must ALSO monitor your simulation accuracy too. Therefore it could be said that Dry fire is HARDER and requires MORE mental intensity than does Live fire. I.e., NOT something to "play around with" while watching TV, etc. That is how bad habits could develop and creep in while not giving dry fire your full attention.

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Once I have my stage plan during the walk through (know where all the targets are, my positions/marks, reload positions, etc.) I will walk the conga line a few times until I will walk through a few times to ensure that I am hitting all the positions and that I have no hesitations about which target locations and target order. I identify trouble positions where I seem to be having difficulty stopping in the right spot or with target order. I will repeat small sections as needed and will may do short bursts of speed testing ability to get into and out if particular positions if other shooters are clear. Overall you are looking for smoothness and efficiency while moving through the stage.

When on deck I will try a couple of runs through the course at as much of full speed as I can do to ensure my plan is programmed and that I am hitting all of my positions and that there is no hesitation with finding the right targets. I think going full speed is important because it will likely be much more difficult to hit a tight position if you are only looking at it while going at a casual pace. Again, I repeat smaller sections of possible but like to run the whole thing start to finish executing perfectly if possible. The fast pace gets the adrenaline going more as well and helps me to know where my focus should be.
The only real drawback of this approach is that sometimes I am already out of breath and the mouth breathing comes over loud, clear, and obnoxious through the first person camera.
For example:

Edited by alma
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