Andreas Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Shot my first sectional match on Friday and got completely demolished. This video is fairly representative. I got 142 out of 150 points but shot it in 27.24 s vs. 18.13 s for the stage winner. What should I be doing in practice beyond trying to shoot like what little hair I have is on fire? I'm good at Steel Challenge, and a classifier match last month landed me an A for my initial classification, but I'm not turning that into respectable field course performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dover0020 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Stage planning. You never should have shot the forward position last. You had to cover half the distance of the course an extra time. That just eats up seconds. Just keep shooting matches and experience will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 Stage planning. You never should have shot the forward position last. You had to cover half the distance of the course an extra time. That just eats up seconds. Just keep shooting matches and experience will come. How would you have shot it? I considered shooting the forward position in the middle, but then I would have had to retreat back to the main area to complete the COF. Maybe I missed something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Uh lots of M & GM's shot that position last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabbermurph Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Stage planning. You never should have shot the forward position last. You had to cover half the distance of the course an extra time. That just eats up seconds. Just keep shooting matches and experience will come. How would you have shot it? I considered shooting the forward position in the middle, but then I would have had to retreat back to the main area to complete the COF. Maybe I missed something? I am very new at this, so take it with a grain.... But the two arrays left and right of center look as if they could have been taken from the same spot. Instead of a full side step over, maybe a hard lean. And if they did need a change in position, you should have made it much more explosive. Movement from spot to spot could be faster, and like dover said, it will come with practice and experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 the whole rear center position should have been shot on the move 1st pos to the left extreme amount of time before your first shot. shooting on the move will take seconds off your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 you should have shot the entire center on the move. The targets were close. On stacked targets always shoot the lower targets first. so you are not blocking your eyes from snapping to the next target. The front target was best shot last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Shot my first sectional match on Friday and got completely demolished. This video is fairly representative. I got 142 out of 150 points but shot it in 27.24 s vs. 18.13 s for the stage winner. What should I be doing in practice beyond trying to shoot like what little hair I have is on fire? I'm good at Steel Challenge, and a classifier match last month landed me an A for my initial classification, but I'm not turning that into respectable field course performances. Andreas, You shot that stage fine, just very slow. I shot it the same way you did, just about 8 seconds faster. I never stopped moving. Get the gun up and start shooting sooner. The speed will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Congrats on A class as your initial class. Your shooting is not in question and that is great. From what I saw you looked as if you could have gained lots of time just moving more. CHA-LEE has said that it takes about 3 seconds to get into/out of a shooting position when we "stop". Judging by the # of steps to the middle box from the 1st shooting area, 4, all those targets should be easily taken on the move by most B class and above shooters. They just arent that far, 6-8 yards, tops I'm guessing? You stopped, completely, for every array. This cost at least 9 seconds, possibly more. Practice shooting partials from 3 to 10 yards while moving. Also, not sure, but I'd would have walked it under a stop watch several different ways. I'm not sure but I'm thinking I would have shot it straight across, going to middle then back out. Again, I would have let the watch tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Go to Ben Stoeger's range diary and watch any of the videos of him shooting stages in a match. It looks likes he's being chased by a 500 lb gorilla while making sure he shoots every target as he's running for his life ... As an A class shooter I would think you can be shooting any target inside of 10 yds on the move. I took a class fom Steve Anderson and in less than 1 day I was shooting steel on the move and I'm only a C shooter. Also, there is no req't to get in front of a target to shoot it. It looks like you could have taken more than just the targets directly in front of you to save time. As a shooter with A classification shooting skills you should have lots of options on a stage that lower skilled shooters don't ; shooting on the move and taking longer range shots avoid having to go to positions at all come to mind .... Good stage planning is an acquired skill that takes time develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm grateful for the excellent feedback and suspect you all nailed it suggesting that I should have taken the majority of these targets on the move. It didn't even enter my mind to do so! Doing so wouldn't have been a problem—I took the mini popper on stage 9 (Long Way Up) without issue and shot several other targets on the move. Guess it's no surprise that I finished that stage at 77.91%, my best score of the match. I have to step outside my Steel Challenge mindset of planting my feet and murdering targets from one spot. Good idea as well about using a stopwatch during my walkthrough to compare times. Funny about the Ben Stoeger comment: I'm taking his class later this year and already requested that he chase me through the practice field courses with an axe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I'm taking his class on 5-6 Oct so I expect pretty much the same thing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfish Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 A couple times it looked like you were looking at you targets to see if you had you hits. If that's whats happening you need to learn to call you shots and get moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter.860 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 If it was allowed, I would have shot both the 2 left and 2 right arrays tight against the barrels. This would emlinate two positions in the video. Shoot everything in the middle on the move then go forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadyscott999 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 If it was allowed, I would have shot both the 2 left and 2 right arrays tight against the barrels. This would emlinate two positions in the video. Shoot everything in the middle on the move then go forward. You couldn't see both arrays from any one position. You had to go outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskinsler83 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Stage planning. You never should have shot the forward position last. You had to cover half the distance of the course an extra time. That just eats up seconds. Just keep shooting matches and experience will come. How odd lol the stage winner and all the GMs shot it the same way left to right then busted ass to the front to finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 A couple times it looked like you were looking at you targets to see if you had you hits. If that's whats happening you need to learn to call you shots and get moving. I fortunately wasn't looking for my hits, but visually processing the tight, vertically stacked targets did slow me down. Paul's advice on shooting the lower target first so that my slide doesn't block the next target should help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck s Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Andreas, I shot it similar to you. I did take the arrays on the left and then ran to the far right and then took the right middle targets as I moved to the center. Probably nothing really gained over your strategy. I did it in 25 with 136 points , but clipped a no shoot on the left. I suspect that your shots were really well grouped in the A zone judging by your splits. I bet you could speed up your splits and transitions and still have lots of As. Judging by the top performers, 22-23 seconds is pretty good and you could find that 4-5 seconds easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Start/Stop/Start/Stop/Start/Stop............. That is what cost you the most time. Slow reloads cost you time as well. Lastly, slow shooting and transitions also cost you time. Every little thing adds up and when you make the same mistake multiple times on the same stage it compounds the dificit. There is at least 10 seconds worh of wasted time on that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) I'm kind of a positive guy, so look on the bright side.... in your first big match (with 3 gm's in your division), you were around 67% of the winner? That doesn't seem like a bad showing, and based on the expert feedback, you should *easily* be able to improve pretty dramatically. I would also say that your classifier score may have been slightly inflated by 'times two' and 'can you count'. I've shot them both and they were a bit higher than my normal scores. I'd be willing to bet with a month of focused practice you'll be shooting 80% or more of the winner's score. Maybe better than that after ben is done with you. He is pretty good imho at teaching efficient movement, and teaching you how to practice it. One of the things you're doing that I've been working on fixing in my own shooting is you're done shooting the position before you seem to start moving your feet and thinking about going somewhere, and likewise, you come into a position, and get both feet settled firmly before you start shooting. If you watch a vid of a much faster shooter, there will be a lot less 'pause' going on between the last shot and the movement. You can often see them picking up a foot and starting to shift their weight while engaging the last target. Edited September 6, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 I like your style motosapiens. No doubt my initial classification posted ahead of my match performance, but I'm seeing that as encouragement to catch up quickly—winning Low A isn't a distinction to repeat I'm overhauling my dry-fire practice to focus on position entry/exit and shooting/reloading on the move and need to make some changes to live-fire as well. I understand what you're saying about shooting during the actual entry/exit and need to drill that into my subconscious so it just happens on match day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Start/Stop/Start/Stop/Start/Stop............. That is what cost you the most time. Slow reloads cost you time as well. Lastly, slow shooting and transitions also cost you time. Every little thing adds up and when you make the same mistake multiple times on the same stage it compounds the dificit. There is at least 10 seconds worh of wasted time on that stage. 100% what he said. With splits that, deliberate, your transitions should be much faster for A class. When you are moving and not shooting, it should be with some amount of urgency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckie45 Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Looking at the individual order that you shoot each array: looks like you shoot them all left to right/ top bottom, exept the array on the far right. I would reverse that order in conjunction with shooting on the move throught the middle section. This will allow you to shoot the target on the right of each array as it becomes visable first and the left target as it is visable second and hiden last during your continual movement to the right. +1 for shooting bottom to top as previously discussed. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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