Cy Soto Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Summer in Colorado can be at times really hot. This past Sunday was one of those days when the temperature peaked at the mid-90's. We had one male shooter who showed up early to help with the setup and took his shirt off while he was doing this. As soon as the match begun he was told to put his shirt back on. He initially refused and he was told that, if he didn't, he would be DQ'd under Rule 10.6.1 (Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike). Since I was not in this squad I don't know the details of the word exchange but I don't see how a DQ for Unsportsmanlike Conduct could be applied. However, another shooter pointed out that Rule 5.3.1 could be invoked in this situation. I notice that it talks about what you can wear but nothing about what you cannot wear. What do you say... Rule 5.3.1 The use of offensive or objectionable garments is not allowed. The Match Director will have final authority in respect of what garments competitors are allowed to wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 5.3.1 should cover it even if he did not want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 5.3.1 is also the rule I would apply. Is the range privately owned? Do they have a dress policy? Most ranges I've been to have some sort of dress requirements. I know it can get hot, but shooting in 100+ degree temperatures down here in the summer, I've never seen anyone shoot without a shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) saw the FB exchange, was wondering what was going on. MD should be able to use 5.3.1 Edited July 9, 2013 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I have never seen anybody with no shirt in Florida. It is as hot and humid as it gets here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rboyes Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I notice that it talks about what you can wear but nothing about what you cannot wear. Rule 5.3.1 The use of offensive or objectionable garments is not allowed. The Match Director will have final authority in respect of what garments competitors are allowed to wear. Rule also doesn't state what garments you must wear. What if the shooter was wearing a see through shirt, fishnet or otherwise lacey? Great, now I have an image of that shooter wearing fishnetting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I notice that it talks about what you can wear but nothing about what you cannot wear. Rule 5.3.1 The use of offensive or objectionable garments is not allowed. The Match Director will have final authority in respect of what garments competitors are allowed to wear. Rule also doesn't state what garments you must wear. What if the shooter was wearing a see through shirt, fishnet or otherwise lacey? Great, now I have an image of (A)shooter wearing fishnetting. Meeeee tooooo and she looks great Edited July 9, 2013 by Round_Gun_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Set the match up so brass bounces back at the shooter. I bet it's never a problem again. PS this is texas. We shoot in 108 and wear pants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifeislarge Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 That's it. I'm shooting my next match in nothing but a holster, shoes, and a bright red banana hammock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Then how come Cliff Walsh didn't get DQed for shooting in a thong? Maybe it was his black evening thong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I saw a video of a shoot one time, with a hot tub start....shooter stands up out of the tub....and is wearing nothing but a thong and his gear. The thread is here on the forum, but I think the video has been deleted. Cliff Walsh needs to be asked about this, as he was the shooter in the thong. Edited July 9, 2013 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 tank top & tevas out in the left coast...ain't more than 113. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 IMO, there is no specific rule that states minimum dress requirements. 5.3.1. clearly deals with what you can't wear, not that you must wear something. 10.6.1 is a real stretch. 10.6.2 is close, but if the competitor says 10.6.2 is not applicable to competitors, yes, that is a legit point. 10.6.2Other persons may be expelled from the range for conduct which aRange Officer deems to be unacceptable. Examples of unacceptableconduct include, but are not limited to, failing to comply with the rea-sonable directions of a Match Official, Bottomline, this is something that should not need a rule. I guess common decency is not very common. Not to mention a t-shirt isn't adding anymore heat retention than a hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I don't know that 10.6.1 is a real stretch. The language about "failure to comply with the reasonable direction of a match official" is in there as well.... What would be unreasonable about such a request by the RO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I shot one match with one shooter in mid to upper 50's took his shirt off,it was 95 deg.but guys remember you are nor 18 and things are not what they once were.Please wear a shirt of some kind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Guy wants to shoot without a shirt? Let him. He'll probably end up with a nasty sunburn and never do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I dont thik this would raise my eyebrow, at work in the summer nobody wheres a shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I don't know that 10.6.1 is a real stretch. The language about "failure to comply with the reasonable direction of a match official" is in there as well.... What would be unreasonable about such a request by the RO? I didn't read past the 3rd line of 10.6.1. I agree with Nik that 10.6.1 is a good rule to invoke. Not wearing a shirt is a far cry from lying or cheating, but if the RO says put on a shirt and a competitor refuses, 10.6.1 fills the need to DQ. IIRC, there was a letter or 2 in FS a few years ago commenting negatively about female competitors wearing short-shorts at matches. I'd much rather see ladies in short shorts than see some sweaty guy with no shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Egan Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Unfortunately, i watched some of the facebook drama....I cant ever get that three minutes of my life back. How come no one has touched on the safety issue? We do get fragged, pieces of jacket coming back off of steel or rocks... I would consider a shirt to help guard against an injury. Albeit a minor injury.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) Why would anyone care if a dude doesn't wear a shirt? If shirts protect against injury, why don't we have to wear long sleeves? What about our exposed knees? cheeks? oh, the horror!! Edited July 10, 2013 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 How about just a modicum of decorum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hot brass bouncing off my chest would keep me wearing a shirt. Or going prone? On gravel or rough dirt? Plan a standing stage where they have to shoot some targets, with a wall on the right to bounce the brass back, then finish on a prone lo ,port. ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Once you have to start looking for somewhere broad to hammer your opinion into the rulebook, you have to realize you are wrong. You may not like it. You may not think it is in good taste. It may not look good. It may not be a good idea. But none of that makes it a proscribed action that can be penalized under 10.becauseIsayso. Experienced ROs, RMs and MDs promote fidelity to the rulebook. It is not up to us to decide WHAT the rules should be. That's up to the BOD and NROI. Our job is to fairly and consistently apply the rules - not look for loopholes in which to make others do our bidding. Our sport is freestyle. With some notable exceptions (production equipment rules that say what you can have), if the rulebook doesn't say you can't do it, then go ahead. Sorry - rant off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 When did they let middle school girls run USPSA matches ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
424D57 Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Not at all sure I have a real opinion about this, but were I of the opinion that the competitor's behavior was unacceptable in this matter I think 6.4.4 would be the go-to. -424D57 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now