dcloudy777 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Now is the time where MDs and other stage designers are planning their evil shenanigans for the year. Now is also the time of ridiculous ammo and component shortages, and conservative of 4-6 months for supplies to even begin to stabilize. Are you taking dwindling ammo supplies into consideration when designing major match stages? Are we going to see more shotgun? Fewer but tougher rifle/handgun shots? More no-shoots? Just opening up a topic for conversation. DanO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm not going to a match if they advertise a reduced round count. I've ordered 28lbs of powder and 4000 projectiles this week. All at normal prices. It's out there, you just have to look around and be ready with your $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 so, you can't share where it is out there??? Powder isn't too bad but .223 projectiles and primers seem a little tough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I bought from powder valley, grafs, and Montana gold. I bought 75000 primers three months ago. I just bought a few thousand large rifle primers at my LGS just because. They had plenty. The only thing I am in a bind for is .22. It's funny that I can't afford to practice because I'm out of practice ammo, but match ammo - I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishop414 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm sure our MD will be around and post, but can say our last match was reduced round count. Made up for it by moving to different positons more frequently and having tougher shots. This went for both rifle and shotgun. They have also allowed .22s for the rifle hose stages as an option if you choose for the time being. Personally do not mind the lower counts right now considering I am not a reloader and craziness will die down. If you want to shoot more rounds, no one is stopping you for double taps, or paying a second entry and run it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedale Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 There is a fairly local 3 gun I am planning to attend this weekend. Great club, great folks. They posted the rifle round count to be 40 total. It is normally about 100. Is it worth a 5 hour round trip? Sadly, probably not. If I am going to commit 5 hours of gas, the round count needs to be a bit higher. I shot that much .308 in the pasture, Sunday, just having fun. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I am not dropping round count for the Noveske match, but I am also working on trying to find solutions for those who may be short on ammo. You can always shoot 1 A on the paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmccrock Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If a local match does not reduce round counts, expect new shooters to stay away. It is expensive enough to get into this sport then add skyrocketing ammo prices. Big matches will probably not change much. There have been some noises around here about adding a rimfire rifle division, but nothing announced yet. I bought from powder valley, grafs, and Montana gold. I bought 75000 primers three months ago. I just bought a few thousand large rifle primers at my LGS just because. They had plenty. Three months ago, not a problem. And primers seem to be the hard thing to get, although I believe Powder Valley accepts backorders. Grafs has primers...oops, those are Berdan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I agree local matches need to consider...running a .22 2 gun Feb 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark K Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I sent a survey to the shooters on my mailing list asking about such things. 25 to 1 they responded they did not want round counts changed. They were not going to drive 2-3 hours to a match with reduced round counts. If they did anything, they might cut the number of matches they attend, but did not want the matches to change. Mark K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I sent a survey to the shooters on my mailing list asking about such things. 25 to 1 they responded they did not want round counts changed. They were not going to drive 2-3 hours to a match with reduced round counts. If they did anything, they might cut the number of matches they attend, but did not want the matches to change. Mark K. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If a local match does not reduce round counts, expect new shooters to stay away. It is expensive enough to get into this sport then add skyrocketing ammo prices. Big matches will probably not change much. There have been some noises around here about adding a rimfire rifle division, but nothing announced yet. I bought from powder valley, grafs, and Montana gold. I bought 75000 primers three months ago. I just bought a few thousand large rifle primers at my LGS just because. They had plenty. Three months ago, not a problem. And primers seem to be the hard thing to get, although I believe Powder Valley accepts backorders. Grafs has primers...oops, those are Berdan. I bought powder and bullets this week and as I said, primers are available locally for me anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airedale Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I sent a survey to the shooters on my mailing list asking about such things. 25 to 1 they responded they did not want round counts changed. They were not going to drive 2-3 hours to a match with reduced round counts. If they did anything, they might cut the number of matches they attend, but did not want the matches to change. Mark K. Agree. There are many other costs to 3 gun than just the rifle ammo. I would hate to cut the number of matches but there must be bang for the buck. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I sent a survey to the shooters on my mailing list asking about such things. 25 to 1 they responded they did not want round counts changed. They were not going to drive 2-3 hours to a match with reduced round counts. If they did anything, they might cut the number of matches they attend, but did not want the matches to change. Mark K. Agree. There are many other costs to 3 gun than just the rifle ammo. I would hate to cut the number of matches but there must be bang for the buck. Dave I have a minimum 2 hr drive to shoot any match. I am shooting more 22 and 308 since I have a good stockpile. Changing stage designs would make me lean towards skipping those matches. I am shooting more pistol only matches, since I keep a years supply on hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGibe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I agree with most of the posts here and am not in favor of reduced round counts. The time commitment of 3-gun is huge and I like to shoot as much as possible at matches... Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A6Gator Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 The match we put together in Memphis for last Saturday had a (comparatively) reduced round count, basically 50 rifle/50 handgun and 30 shotgun w/bonus slug targets thrown in. I polled my shooters and also had a big discussion before walk-thru. Our poll responses were all over the board, which is why I thought I'd discuss it w/the guys who actually showed up that morning. The response was that most guys liked the reduced round count that we had set up, using 1/2 size USPSA targets and some challenging target positioning. That being said, we're going to include a Tactical Economy class for the rimfire AR guys. We have a bunch of shooters here who have rimfire AR's since we started shooting rifles as a second gun in Steel Challenge. As I envision it, we'll squad the rimfire guys separately and they'll be scored separately. We're looking at a revision to neutralizing target scoring, too. For now, we'll make their longest shots 100yds or so. With our range here, we're pretty much restricted to 300yds max anyway, so the .223 guys will shoot out to that distance on flash targets. The shotgun/handgun side will remain the same. While we realize, nobody got into 3 Gun because it was cheap, access to rifle ammo, given the current level of idiocy, is a real challenge for some of our guys. I've heard some guys are having problems getting buckshot and slugs, too. So we'll dial it back a bit on that front, too. No more 32 round slug/buckshot stages for awhile... We shoot the third Saturday of every month, so we'll see how it works out. I think keeping up the level of participation is important too. It'll be a balancing act, trying to create challenging stages and keep round counts within some degree of normalcy, but then I don't think it's any greater challenge than trying to keep it interesting for the master-level guys and not so hard that the FNG's quit after their first match. That's why MD's get those big bucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppa Bear Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 When possible we will reduce the round count, but it is more a matter of a 32 round course being reduced to say 24 to 26 rounds. It is also looking at the total round count. Factory ammo is in boxes of 20, 25, or 50 depending on the type of gun used etc. I will try to keep the total round count to a mid range numbers. Pistol might be 75 rounds so that two boxes of 50 is sufficient. Rifle will be 30, 50, or 70 so that boxes of 20 allow 10 spares. Shotgun will be around 15 rounds, or 30 to 35 rounds. Again to leave room for a couple of misses, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) In our monthly match we will be allowing folks to shoot rifles in any caliber they want (including .22LR and pistol calibers) on the close-range hoser stages where the highest round counts are encountered. Of course they will still have to bring a centerfire rifle/ammo for the one long-range stage we will have, but that is typically less than 30 rounds required. For most of our competitors, pistol and shotgun ammo is much less of a concern - most reload for pistol, and shotgun ammo still seems available (though puzzlingly it is also getting thin on the ground). Edited January 23, 2013 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjs Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Would it be possible for the match directors and the major bullet manufacturers to come together to develop a policy where by shooters would be given priority to purchase bullets at the respective matches? Many posts in the past have shown a concern by competitors limiting the matches they attend because of ammo shortage concerns. The "dream" program I am thinking of would allow shooters to purchase a relatively modest amount of bullets that would allow for some practice and match ammo. The prepaid ammo would be shipped to the match site and picked up during registration. I am only thinking of say a 1000 rounds or so per shooter. I dont think in this political climate that match attendance should fall off for any reason- last of all bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGibe Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 In our monthly match we will be allowing folks to shoot rifles in any caliber they want (including .22LR and pistol calibers) on the close-range hoser stages where the highest round counts are encountered. Of course they will still have to bring a centerfire rifle/ammo for the one long-range stage we will have, but that is typically less than 30 rounds required. For most of our competitors, pistol and shotgun ammo is much less of a concern - most reload for pistol, and shotgun ammo still seems available (though puzzlingly it is also getting thin on the ground). I like this approach - especially for local matches. I certainly understand that rifle ammo is scarce right now. Because of my location and no real regular 3-gun matches close by, when I travel to a match I want to make sure it is worth it to me. All told I may only get 7 or 8 3-gun matches in all year... Pistol matches are plentiful... Would love a monthly match close enough to attend :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miker Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 We have a small 3 gun monthly match and opted to try shooting .22 rifle on a couple of stages everyone really enjoyed it, we got to shoot steel falling targets at way closer range and shot hanging clays that exploded better than when shot with .223. We got to hang on to our stash of highly collectible .223 rounds and still had a awesome match. Try it you might be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I hope the MDs for Majors don't change a thing. Each Major has it's own special "flavor" and that's what draws me back year after year. I can see allowing .22 at local matches, but really hope round counts don't decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Went to my match sponsors with this issue and they stepped up. Working on a way to have .223 and 9mm pre-purchased and delivered at the 2013 Noveske match. Where there is a will, there is a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Went to my match sponsors with this issue and they stepped up. Working on a way to have .223 and 9mm pre-purchased and delivered at the 2013 Noveske match. Where there is a will, there is a way. Mark - great initiative buddy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark R Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) As a match director, I have begun allowing 22 rimfire pistol shooters to participate in USPSA matches, but I score centerfire guns on Nooks (electronic scoring) and rimfire shooters on paper score sheets. Our range has a multi-gun rimfire match and we are getting some of those folks over and introducing them to "run-n-gun" USPSA matches...and they have enjoyed it. So I end up scoring 2 matches that run simultaneously. We're getting more interest in this as we proceeed...plus it brings in the same $15-20 entry fee. I only send in classifier results and fees to USPSA from the centerfire group. Oh...and I haven't reduced round count...if you are coming out to shoot, then come out and shoot.Build it and they will come! Edited January 24, 2013 by Mark R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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