Chose a new Open Gun to buy.. any different suggestions?

[Sparky]

Chris,

I've been shooting IPSC since 1979. I shoot Limited and just starting

in Production.

But, I shoot with several Open shooters that shoot Bedell guns. I

have shot their Bedell Open Guns and if I ever have an Open gun built,

it will be by Dan Bedell. Especially since you are in New York as is

Bedell will make the process even better.

Sorry, but can't speak to JPL guns.

Ron

[ChrisG164]

I just had a Bedell build me a gun. The thing is great, plus being in New York you can go pick it up and ask him a ton of questions in person like I did! Plus, if you want anything changed or have some sort of problem, you can drop it off to him.

Unfortunately I'm a ways from Rochester, so I'll need to have it shipped either way. But it'll still be a LOT cheaper.

[OperationHitFactor]

Ok. First things first Bedell or JPL are fine. Either will make you an outstanding pistola.

Next, realize that performance in most of the major builders is marginal. I have shot many many many different open guns in my search for the holy grail stage. Know that the dot goes up and the dot goes down, you just need to learn the timing, which will come after 5-10,000 rounds. They will all be more accurate than you are at 50 yards and all will out shoot you until you are a high Master. Finding the right load can do wonders in adjusting the feel of the gun to your style.

Next, you don't need a brand new gun. Buy a used gun, the Nationals are this week and the season is coming to a close. There will be a surge of great Open guns on the used market in the next couple months. This is also the time of year many people choose to buy new guns so the builders will all be backed up in about 3 weeks pushing wait times even longer.

I promise some great guns will hit the market in the coming months. As long as you are buying a gun that was originally built buy a reputable builder it is going to be fine. Also call a few builders you are interested in and ask if any of the team shooters are getting new guns for 2013. If so ask if you can buy one of the used guns if a shooter does a trade in. Not all builders do this, but some may hear of a customer selling an older gun because they want a brand new toy. Used is really the way to go as it will save you money and give you time to decide and learn what is right for you.

Last, STI Trubor or MatchMaster are great first options on the used market. STI warranty's the gun not the original owner. While not the sexiest and not the top performing. They are solid choices for a beginner. They come with a warranty and the performance differance won't make a lick of difference to you. As a new open shooter I could give you a top of the line Limcat, Bedell, Infinity etc... on the timer, your results will be exactly the same.

Here is a list of guns to keep and eye out for the used market:

Bedell

JPL

Cheely Custom

Cameron's Custum

M2i Custom

Infinity

STI Factory Trubor or MatchMaster

Limcat

Dave Pruitt

Millennium Custom

Benny Hill Triangle Shooting

Those are just some of the greats. I'm sure more will be suggested, but if any of these pop up on the used market snatch it up.

[Rambo]

I bought a JPL gun last winter...got it about 4 months after ordering it. Couldn't be happier with it... I'll be shooting it at Nationals next week

[ChrisG164]

I bought a JPL gun last winter...got it about 4 months after ordering it. Couldn't be happier with it... I'll be shooting it at Nationals next week

What is the pound recoil spring on it out of curiosity? That's the only thing I forgot to ask John

Ok. First things first Bedell or JPL are fine. Either will make you an outstanding pistola.

Next, realize that performance in most of the major builders is marginal. I have shot many many many different open guns in my search for the holy grail stage. Know that the dot goes up and the dot goes down, you just need to learn the timing, which will come after 5-10,000 rounds. They will all be more accurate than you are at 50 yards and all will out shoot you until you are a high Master. Finding the right load can do wonders in adjusting the feel of the gun to your style.

Next, you don't need a brand new gun. Buy a used gun, the Nationals are this week and the season is coming to a close. There will be a surge of great Open guns on the used market in the next couple months. This is also the time of year many people choose to buy new guns so the builders will all be backed up in about 3 weeks pushing wait times even longer.

I promise some great guns will hit the market in the coming months. As long as you are buying a gun that was originally built buy a reputable builder it is going to be fine. Also call a few builders you are interested in and ask if any of the team shooters are getting new guns for 2013. If so ask if you can buy one of the used guns if a shooter does a trade in. Not all builders do this, but some may hear of a customer selling an older gun because they want a brand new toy. Used is really the way to go as it will save you money and give you time to decide and learn what is right for you.

Last, STI Trubor or MatchMaster are great first options on the used market. STI warranty's the gun not the original owner. While not the sexiest and not the top performing. They are solid choices for a beginner. They come with a warranty and the performance differance won't make a lick of difference to you. As a new open shooter I could give you a top of the line Limcat, Bedell, Infinity etc... on the timer, your results will be exactly the same.

Here is a list of guns to keep and eye out for the used market:

Bedell

JPL

Cheely Custom

Cameron's Custum

M2i Custom

Infinity

STI Factory Trubor or MatchMaster

Limcat

Dave Pruitt

Millennium Custom

Benny Hill Triangle Shooting

Those are just some of the greats. I'm sure more will be suggested, but if any of these pop up on the used market snatch it up.

Believe me, I've been contemplating the used route plenty, but my one concern was warranty and service.

[Rambo]

Wolff 9lb Variable... If you have questions I wouldn't hesitate to get ahold of him. He's always been very helpful to me.

[ChrisG164]

Wolff 9lb Variable... If you have questions I wouldn't hesitate to get ahold of him. He's always been very helpful to me.

Yes I spoke to him about the gun and adding a slide racker, flat trigger and horizontal c-more sight mount. Came to total about the same as the bedell with the same equipment.

[a matt]

I don't even shoot open (yet) and this has been some good 411. Thanks

[Chris iliff]

GAN'S

Buy your parts. Send them to Gary. You'll have a gun built by one of the best. Plus, just guessing here as I don't know his current workload, he will beat turn around time on any current smith. The guy is just amazing. His guns are incredibly accurate and run like sewing machines. His turn around time is unbelievable.

Do yourself a favor, vist his website. Gan's enterprise.

http://www.gansguns.com/

Here is Juju, 9mm, Dawson Magwell, Brazos thunder comp2 barrel. STI upper and lower, infinity flat long trigger, 2 1/4 pound trigger. GANS.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Chris iliff

[ChrisG164]

Will do. I'll call him tomorrow

[donnyglock]

A big +1 for Gary at Gans. His work is outstanding and his turn around times will make your head spin. I have had three open guns built by Gary and all run and run.

To the op. Don't take this the wrong way but you don't know what you want yet. Until you shoot open for a season or two its hard to judge what kind of open gun will be your ideal set up. Thats why buying a used gun makes sence. Shoot for awhile then order your custom gun exactly how you NEED it. My first open gun was a trubor. There are so many great builders and its hard to tell them exactly how you want the gun to act if you don't know how you need it to act.

[jpl]

Don't take this the wrong way but you don't know what you want yet. Until you shoot open for a season or two its hard to judge what kind of open gun will be your ideal set up. Thats why buying a used gun makes sence. Shoot for awhile then order your custom gun exactly how you NEED it. My first open gun was a trubor. There are so many great builders and its hard to tell them exactly how you want the gun to act if you don't know how you need it to act.

That is some really good advice!

Edited October 13, 2012 by jpl

[ChrisG164]

I called him out of curiosity, but the price to build a gun will be WAY over my budget. I'm going with Bedell or JPL. Unsure still. Bedell's site says they have one in stock, so if that's the case then i'll get it. Otherwise I might not have the patience to wait a year for it to be built.

EDIT: But again, if I can find it I'll get something used.

Edited October 13, 2012 by ChrisG164

[CocoBolo]

I have read some positive posts about his guns. $3400 is less than many others if not most cost. I personally had Matt Cheely build mine. It cost about $3800 but he builds an awesome gun and his loyalty and customer service to his clients is among the very best.

Don't sweat the wait. All the top builders have some type of wait involved. 4 months is short, all things considered. Some can get a gun to you much faster but not many.

There are a few threads on here about buying used Open guns. It seems to be hit or miss and it appears many just don't run without work being done. I would buy new every time unless a Glock comes up for sale cheap.

I would say to go with your gut. Make sure he will be there after the sale. Be advised that a good gun builder will fix problems with a new gun for free and pay for the shipping to do so. At least mine did.

$500 for 4 mags is about par for the course as well.

Other than that, get a 9MAJOR!

I'm going to second on Matt, while his guns are a bit rare here in TX, the ones I have encountered are awsome and they run which is #1. In 9 major there are a very select few I would get a gun from Matt, or Jim Anglin Sailors Custom Guns.

In these parts where Papa Rudy Project team leader lives the AKAI, is now shot by 80% of the top shooters. This is the result of Kevin's marketing however I will say having shot 3 of them they are very very nice shooting guns (38S). Have not seen one of his 9 majors.

The Amish is on, right now you know nothing about open guns, once you start shooting if you stick with the same gun you will still know very little. I've been thru 10 in 4 years and I'm starting to figure it out. So listen to the smith he knows way more about his guns.

My custom 9 Major is a HOGS, it was built by a guy from the Phillipines that built for a World Champ down there, now retired, took 4 weeks from the time I delivered all the parts, seemed like forever, Cost $2500 hard chromed. Repairs to gun in first 10k round None.

[TwoShot]

Dan Bedell has built me two open guns. They are of different configuration so I won't call one a backup. I have 2 because they are both a pleasure to shoot and there is pride of owning two finely tuned pieces of a gunsmiths work. Dan delivered my guns on time and kept me informed on build progress. He has answered numerous questions and has always been a pleasure to deal with. You can buy a Bedell with confidence!

[ChrisG164]

So I got some news recently. To sum it up.. my one local meeting spot for USPSA/IPSC matches claims they don't have the equipment to define minor/major rounds (what kind of sh** is that? all you need is a calculator and a chrony!?) So if I want to compete Major I'll have to shoot .38 Super or Super Comp.. Which is actually fine with me since all the top shooters seem to prefer that caliber. If I go with 9 Major I'll be stuck in minor (no good). So I guess .38 Super it is.

[Supermoto]

Get your own chrono, you will need one regardless of what caliber you shoot

[ChrisG164]

Get your own chrono, you will need one regardless of what caliber you shoot

Agreed. How else will I know what I'm loading. Either way, I think .38 Super or Super Comp is the way to go and will help utilize my comp better.

[a matt]

Plus one on the 38 over the 9. Mucho easier to make power, and take full advantage of the comp.

[amish_rabbi]

So I got some news recently. To sum it up.. my one local meeting spot for USPSA/IPSC matches claims they don't have the equipment to define minor/major rounds (what kind of sh** is that? all you need is a calculator and a chrony!?) So if I want to compete Major I'll have to shoot .38 Super or Super Comp.. Which is actually fine with me since all the top shooters seem to prefer that caliber. If I go with 9 Major I'll be stuck in minor (no good). So I guess .38 Super it is.

this is the weirdest thing i have ever heard

[ChrisG164]

So I got some news recently. To sum it up.. my one local meeting spot for USPSA/IPSC matches claims they don't have the equipment to define minor/major rounds (what kind of sh** is that? all you need is a calculator and a chrony!?) So if I want to compete Major I'll have to shoot .38 Super or Super Comp.. Which is actually fine with me since all the top shooters seem to prefer that caliber. If I go with 9 Major I'll be stuck in minor (no good). So I guess .38 Super it is.

this is the weirdest thing i have ever heard

It's the most FOOLISH thing I've ever heard. What range can't afford a hundred dollar chronograph!?

[Sarge]

So I got some news recently. To sum it up.. my one local meeting spot for USPSA/IPSC matches claims they don't have the equipment to define minor/major rounds (what kind of sh** is that? all you need is a calculator and a chrony!?) So if I want to compete Major I'll have to shoot .38 Super or Super Comp.. Which is actually fine with me since all the top shooters seem to prefer that caliber. If I go with 9 Major I'll be stuck in minor (no good). So I guess .38 Super it is.

this is the weirdest thing i have ever heard

It's the most FOOLISH thing I've ever heard. What range can't afford a hundred dollar chronograph!?

What range says you have to shoot 38 to make MAJOR? It's called 9MAJOR for a reason. You can declare power factor and as long as you are shooting a .354 bullet or bigger it's legal.

Sounds like you have more to worry about than what gun to buy!

Man I swear, even if I dug a pit and ran my own match I would still go by the rules. Sounds like a "good ole' boy" match to me. They probably all had 38 supers before 9MAJOR got recognized and don't want to see their guns become obsolete!

[Sarge]

Get your own chrono, you will need one regardless of what caliber you shoot

Agreed. How else will I know what I'm loading. Either way, I think .38 Super or Super Comp is the way to go and will help utilize my comp better.

Make sure to get a good chiropractor on speed dial. Every time your gun cycles you will spit out 15 cents worth of brass alone. And you most likely won't get all of it back no matter how long you bend over and look for it. I shoot with a few pretty good shooters who run 38 super and they are typically more worried about getting their brass back than how well they shot a stage. The talk during the day seems to revolve around how much brass costs and how they lose half of it after just one firing and if they had it to do all over again they would have went with 9MAJOR. As a matter of fact a shooting buddy switched all his 9MAJOR guns to 38 SC because he just felt 9 wasn't cutting it. After a year or two of throwing money away and getting lackluster results he is now going back to 9.

When is the last time you saw a medium flat rate box (3000) of 38SC once fired for $75-$1000?

Yes, most of the really big dawgs shoot 38 but then again most of them don't shoot with me every month.

Ask some of the gunsmiths that have been mentioned what the ratio of 9's to 38's is that they are building. Last I looked Matt Cheely builds Open guns that come standard in 9MAJOR due to the popularity and demand.

[ChrisG164]

Get your own chrono, you will need one regardless of what caliber you shoot

Agreed. How else will I know what I'm loading. Either way, I think .38 Super or Super Comp is the way to go and will help utilize my comp better.

Make sure to get a good chiropractor on speed dial. Every time your gun cycles you will spit out 15 cents worth of brass alone. And you most likely won't get all of it back no matter how long you bend over and look for it. I shoot with a few pretty good shooters who run 38 super and they are typically more worried about getting their brass back than how well they shot a stage. The talk during the day seems to revolve around how much brass costs and how they lose half of it after just one firing and if they had it to do all over again they would have went with 9MAJOR. As a matter of fact a shooting buddy switched all his 9MAJOR guns to 38 SC because he just felt 9 wasn't cutting it. After a year or two of throwing money away and getting lackluster results he is now going back to 9.

When is the last time you saw a medium flat rate box (3000) of 38SC once fired for $75-$1000?

Yes, most of the really big dawgs shoot 38 but then again most of them don't shoot with me every month.

Ask some of the gunsmiths that have been mentioned what the ratio of 9's to 38's is that they are building. Last I looked Matt Cheely builds Open guns that come standard in 9MAJOR due to the popularity and demand.

and THAT'S the thing. John Larson owner of JPL specializes in 9mm Open pistols. I just don't know at this point.

[ChrisG164]

QUESTION..

Is there someone I can call to complain/dispute that this club is NOT abiding by the rulebook when it comes to something as simple as major/minor cartridges? If so, whom?