StealthyBlagga Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I've tried a few options - various iron sight configurations, Prismatic etc. - but I keep coming back to my Aimpoint ML3 2MOA red dot. I have a slight astigmatism, but in bright sunlight with the dot brightness turned down a click or two I get an acceptably crisp dot for hits out to 500+. No BUIS/cowitnessed irons on my match rifle. Oh, and I am 47 years old if that gives some context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Heading further off the track (maybe) does anyone offer a 1X sight similar to the Prismatic, but in a lower price range? I love iron sights, but at 53 my eyes refuse to cooperate. I like the idea of a 1X that does not need an illuminated reticle,but the Leupold price is discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Bushnell has a few that some people have liked ($90 to $140) as does Burris ($100 to $200) for close range stuff. Problem with most of them is that the dot is 3 MOA or larger so out at 500 yards, you have a 15" dancing red blob on top of a 12" target. My eyes are not great, but I can barely see the tiny little dot in James Pris, but is is WAY better than a red blob. I am in the process of putting together a lightweight Limited rifle for my boys and I am going to try out a Sightron 1x scope. About $140 in a 1" tube so if/when they want to go magnified, just get a MTAC and take the 1" adapters out of the mount and there you go. If James or Kelly kick me in the shins for being stupid, you will see me limping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Blueridge does not allow 1X and offset irons, neither does Ozark...so we're not completely out of the loop!!! I guess JP RM3G, Blueridge and Ozark just kind of want the limited class to choose 1X or irons, not both. In my mind, 1X AND irons is just tac scope watered down a little. (That's not derogatory.) Before about 2 years ago, a 1X and offset irons was Tac-Scope for people with good eyes that liked glass. Then with the proliferation of the new 1X's, well the division changed due to shooter input and most matches now allow 1X in "irons". Kurt and Kelly have been going back and forth a bit on wins and losses...the irons vs. 1X debate happens at every match. I don't see a clear winner yet! Not sure why you would not allow 1x optics and irons. Meaning the reasoning. For better or for worse a lot of leo rifles and military rifles are set up this way as well as those types who emulate these groups. That is the guns they have. Why not let them shoot. So long as the rules are the same for everyone I don't see the issue. Co-witnessed red dots with irons is a very common set up. I guess I just wonder the reasoning to some of the rule variances I see. Not that it would stop me from shooting a match. Pat All these matches allow cowitnessed...just not offset. I can't speak for anyone else, but when the 1X first started, many of the iron people were concerned about dot going down etc, but we wanted them to choose. Cowitnessed, same line of sight, you can put the irons down until you need them. As far as I know, no one was running two sets of irons on the same gun. Just wanted the shooter to decide whether they wanted the glass or "old fashioned" irons. Other matches let you put as many iron sights on your gun in addition to glass as you want. Ok I missunderstood earlier. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Kurt and Kelly have been going back and forth a bit on wins and losses...the irons vs. 1X debate happens at every match. I don't see a clear winner yet! I just went through and looked at the major match wins in Limited/Tac Iron at the majors...actually pretty hard to find an Irons win. Lots of 1, 2 with the Pris. Looking at 1-4 in the 3GN Divisional series, we have Pris in 1, 2, and 4 with an EOTech in 3rd. Looks like total domination of the 1x Optics over the Irons in 2012 no matter if you use new math or not. Edited September 21, 2012 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) The Prismatic is on its way to GALACTIC DOMINATION!!!!! That is until we have an IPSC World Rifle Match and the U.S won't be able to field any shooters that can compete in Standard division because no one has even looked though iron sights in 5 years. Edited October 9, 2012 by kellyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I think the winner of this years MG Nats used a prismatic in Limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJPLEO Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 A question for those who mount a 1x red dot on your Limited/Tac Irons rifle... Do you use the 1x red dot scope for up close shots, shots at distances past 80/100 yards or do you co-witness the dot and use it for everything ? If you would...please share why do do such. Thank you for your input ! Chuck I have learned (through lots of trial and error) that if I can put the dot of my XPS2-2 on it, I can hit it. The trick is knowing your ammo and figuring your drops at different yardages. You'll have to put it over a chrono and then punch your numbers into one of the many ballistic programs to see where to zero your rifle so that you will have the flattest trajectory from 0-?. I also have an Eotech on my duty rifle so it makes sense for me to run it this way. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullpup Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Bushnell has a few that some people have liked ($90 to $140) as does Burris ($100 to $200) for close range stuff. Problem with most of them is that the dot is 3 MOA or larger so out at 500 yards, you have a 15" dancing red blob on top of a 12" target. My eyes are not great, but I can barely see the tiny little dot in James Pris, but is is WAY better than a red blob.I am in the process of putting together a lightweight Limited rifle for my boys and I am going to try out a Sightron 1x scope. About $140 in a 1" tube so if/when they want to go magnified, just get a MTAC and take the 1" adapters out of the mount and there you go. If James or Kelly kick me in the shins for being stupid, you will see me limping. Mark, post how you like the set up with the Sightron. I have often wondered how well it would work. BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Oh I think we will be able to fine "one" don't you Kelly. Just because I am taking a break from competing with irons doesn't mean I am not shooting irons! Mark might I point out that no one is shooting real iron sights in tac-iron this season so the results will be skewed towards optics. I wouldn't go as far as to say they dominate until a true iron sight shooter shows up/back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Snap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Kurt, I am hoping to help you sway the results to the Iron side in 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Oh I think we will be able to fine "one" don't you Kelly. Just because I am taking a break from competing with irons doesn't mean I am not shooting irons! Mark might I point out that no one is shooting real iron sights in tac-iron this season so the results will be skewed towards optics. I wouldn't go as far as to say they dominate until a true iron sight shooter shows up/back up. An accurate point Kurt. So I guess you and Patrick are saying James and Kelly better keep practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyD Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hey Mr. Kelley or anyone else who can answer...what is that front mounting base called that you have? Edited October 9, 2012 by TommyD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 There are still a few true tac-irons shooters out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hey Mr. Kelley or anyone else who can answer...what is that front mounting base called that you have? looks like a Lipski barrel band front sight base with a globe sight mounted on it, not sure what brand the actual sight is. Mike http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=20081/pid=7919/Product/COMPETITION-BARREL-BAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Sharp eye Lad! Hey Mr. Kelley or anyone else who can answer...what is that front mounting base called that you have? looks like a Lipski barrel band front sight base with a globe sight mounted on it, not sure what brand the actual sight is. Mike http://www.brownells...ION-BARREL-BAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Pat you posted a picture of my secret weapon for next year! Blurr that thing out so no one gets any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Pat you posted a picture of my secret weapon for next year! Blurr that thing out so no one gets any ideas. It is a very cool tool and I have some trick shot video to prove it….coming to Shooting Illustrated December and January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Oh I think we will be able to fine "one" don't you Kelly. Just because I am taking a break from competing with irons doesn't mean I am not shooting irons! Mark might I point out that no one is shooting real iron sights in tac-iron this season so the results will be skewed towards optics. I wouldn't go as far as to say they dominate until a true iron sight shooter shows up/back up. An accurate point Kurt. So I guess you and Patrick are saying James and Kelly better keep practicing. James was a hard act to follow this past weekend. Kuan said it best, "We just wanted to grab hold of that mountain man beard and hang on!" However I did pick up a Prismatic off of the prize table, so I might have to drink that kool-aid myself. Kurt, I shot irons long before anyone even knew me. I shoulda never got curious about dots, guess it's like that first hit of crack or something. ha ha ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casman Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) I shoulda never got curious about dots, guess it's like that first hit of crack or something. ha ha ha. That is about the perfect analogy alright! This is the first I have seen of this string and I have to say, Thanks for the great chuckles! There are some great lines, and points in all of this. As Kelly said earlier, there are some of us who are finding the Pris to be the ticket and others who are still being very successful with true irons. If you ask me, and I know no one actually did, but it all comes down to what you feel like practicing with. In my experience the Pris is every bit as fast as any red dot on close targets and very accurate on long shots, but that's with my eyes. As the warning labels all say; "Results will vary." The best thing you can do is try out as many options as you can and find the one that works for you. As for co-witnessing; why the heck would you want to complicate things that way for this game? Same goes for 45 offset dots. 1x is 1x wherever it is mounted on the rifle. One last thing, Denise was right when she said that we Love getting new people in the Limited division. Whatever sight system you choose, please come play in our little sandbox! It's a total riot! Oh yah, don't forget facial hair is required for long term involvement in this division! James Edited October 10, 2012 by Casman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 SNIP It's a total riot! Oh yah, don't forget facial hair is required for long term involvement in this division! James Hmm...high lady goes to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I only said I was >hoping to help (Kurt) sway the results to the Iron side in 2013< I didn't say I could do it…James's Fu is very strong! I would even suggest he will find himself in the 4 in Las Vegas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casman Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 (edited) SNIP It's a total riot! Oh yah, don't forget facial hair is required for long term involvement in this division! James Hmm...high lady goes to... I suppose we could wave that facial hair requirment if there were some ladies that wanted to play too! I only said I was >hoping to help (Kurt) sway the results to the Iron side in 2013< I didn't say I could do it…James's Fu is very strong! I would even suggest he will find himself in the 4 in Las Vegas! It will be great to get both you and Kurt back next year Pat! Its going to be a great year! Thanks for the boost! I will definitly try to make all the 1x shooters proud in Vegas! Edited October 10, 2012 by Casman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usp45ss Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All this talk makes me want to go knock the dust off my Prismatic and shoot a little limited again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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