bullpup

Thank you all for the information! I may actually decide to pursue this idea now. Loves2Shoot-Thank you and if I decide to go this route I will be contacting you. JMB-as much as I would like to move some days, I've spent my whole life in a small town in Colorado. Other than when I went to college, I have basically lived, coached, and been a teacher in the same town. It would be hard for me to pick up and leave even though I don't like what's going on in my state right now.

I am thinking about buying a double stack 1911 of some sort in 9mm. This is just an initial thought process, I don't know if I would start off very base with something like an RIA(if I can even find one) or go up to something like an STI. My problem is this, I live in Colorado so I can't purchase magazines that hold any more than fifteen rounds. Is there anyone that makes blocked magazines that would be legal for me to use? This will determine if I even stick with this idea, or just buy a single stack 1911. Thanks for any help. BP

If there is no Noveske, I would love to have a state match. Heck, if the Noveske match would have to move out of state, I would still like a state match but I also know that would be a ton of work and you already do a lot Mark. I would definately shoot the shotgun match. And I appreciate the fact that you are trying to keep the match fee at $150. I think it makes shooting a big match doable for a lot of people that otherwise might not have the chance. And if it can't be held in Colorado, Nebraska would get my vote.

Mark, is the match still on for this Saturday? Do you have an idea what the round count will be? Thanks!

Update: I got some Fiochii low recoil slugs. The gun runs them just fine. No carrier lift jams. So now at least I'll think I'll be able to shoot the Noveske match. I'm still thinking about sending it in after the match because I don't like being limited on slugs and buckshot. I'd like to be able to run full power slugs and buck in case I can't get any Low Recoil slugs and buck for a match. Anyways, thanks everyone for all the thoughts and ideas. I've cleaned the gun twice now, thoroughly, since I started this thread and I also took the shell stop out and polished it, but still no luck with regular slugs or buck. Love the gun but would definately like to get this fixed. If I send it back I'll let you all know how it comes back. I'm a little worried that Mossberg won't do anything with it though since I did have the lifter welded. Thanks again. BP

Yes, I am going to be shooting at the Noveske match. That's actually why I was trying to get this all worked out because this will be the first match that I'm going to use this gun at, hopefully. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! Also I took it out again yesterday. I tried two more types of full power slugs and it still causes the same type of jam. Even if I just load one shell in the chamber and shoot, it still jams just like I've shown in the pictures. It even does it with Estate handy cap loads. I finally ordered some low recoil slugs yesterday so I'm crossing my fingures that they will at least work for the Noveske match. What squad are you shooting on? I'm shooting the afternoons on squad 8. Thanks again! BP

I'm interested in this. Could you please post a pic of what you mean. Do you mean that the sides of the lifter would not be completely flat against a flat surface like a table. The gun runs like a top with birdshot and low recoil buckshot. I've been busy with wrestling so I have gotten a chance to shoot it with some slugs. Thanks again for all of the help. BP

All of the slugs and buck that I am having problems with are full power slugs and buck. They are what I had on had because they are what I run in my pump gun.

Cleaned the shotgun again and polished the shell stop. I also ordered some Rio Low Recoil buck and it came in the mail yesterday. I took the gun out this afternoon and shot it. It will run with the Rio LR buck and it will now also run with the Winchester green hull military buck. It will not run with the Remington buck or with Remington slugs. I only had two rounds of Winchester slugs left and it did run those. Not much of a test with the slugs, so I need to get a couple more brands to see if I can find one that will work. At least I found that it will run the Rio LR buck so I will just buy that from now on. Still have to do a little more work with the slugs. I'm not sure if it was the cleaning or the polishing or if either helped. My gut tells me that it would have run the LR buck anyway since it will run birdshot 100% of the time. Any other thoughts. I'm happy as of now. Just a little perplexed. I'll get some more slugs, maybe order some LR slugs, and hopefully find some that will run well. Thanks again for all of the help. BP

Well I put a new spring in it and cut it to 14 inches. Went and shot and it still does the same thing 80% of the time. Bird shot is still 100% I even mixed different types of birdshot, low recoil 8 shot and regular walmart federal. Still ran 100%. I mixed and matched slugs, buck and bird. Still had very little effect on working, especially with slugs. So now that I have eleminated the spring I will take it apart again and make sure I have thoroughly cleaned everything. Maybe there was something I missed last time. I may also polish the shell stop while I have the gun apart. I guess if the cleaning and polishing doesn't fix the problem, my only other theory is that the welded up lifter has added enough mass that it is interfering with the timing. Thanks again for all of the ideas and suggestions. BP

Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions. I've ordered a new mag spring, and I'll also take it apart again and make sure everything is really clean. I'm really thinking that it has to be the mag spring because it is the only thing that I've really changed besides the lifter. I've had it for about a year and it has been flawless until now.

I think it is definately too short. There is about 7-8 inches of free spring sticking out of the tube.

I did clean the shotgun and put it away before I sent the lifter off. By the way, the lifter turned out awesome! This would make me think it is the spring as well unless I put something back together wrong. I did load the magazine full of shells and shot it and it still had the malfunction pictured. Thanks again for all of the advice. I'll put the stock spring back in a try it out.

I got my lifter back from c-rums yesterday and put my gun back together. Took it out today and it will cycle birdshot but it won't cylce full power slugs or buckshot, both were remington. The shells aren't coming out of the magazine. The only other thing I have done is change the magazine spring out to a shortened Nordic spring. Before the spring and lifter were changed it would cycle everything. Any help would be appreciated. BP Update: Shot the gun again today and I noticed that the gun is actually jamming. It's like the lifter is getting above the shell catch latch. This only does this with buck or slugs. The shell ejects but a new one doesn't come out of the magazine and this is what it looks like when it happens. Also I'm getting a wierd wear mark on the front of the trigger group. It looks like the bolt catch is rubbing against it. Any ideas?

Mark, post how you like the set up with the Sightron. I have often wondered how well it would work. BP

The five division winners making the shoot offs I understand; however, what do you mean by the category winners? Just curious, this will be the first big match I've ever shot. Thanks. BP

I have a Bushmaster M17S that I would really like to try sometime for fun, but the competitor in me keeps me from doing it because I know I wouldn't shoot it as well as my AR. The M17 is heavier than my AR and the trigger is long and heavy. I do want to try it sometime though. Here is a picture of mine.

I've always used IMR 4064 with 150 and 165 grain bullets and always had very good luck. BP

I think a lot of shotgunning is planning the stage and reloading and if you can do that it can level the field a bit. The shotgun is my favorite part of three gun. I always look forward to shooting all shotgun stages because I know it is the one thing that I will be successful at. I'm decent with the rifle, ok with the pistol but I think I'm pretty good with the shotgun. I don't have all of the results from all the matches I've attended because some of them don't break them down by stage, but I did look at results from 6 matches that I've attended in the last year and half. On the all shotgun stage that we have at one of the places I shoot I've finished in the top 25% all but one time and that was the first match I attended. The best three have been 2 out of 19, 6 out of 34, and 6 out of 27. These results are for all divisions. Now again these are local matches at one venue and obviously there is a lot variation in skill sets from other shooters. I do shoot at one other range but I've never seen stage break downs for me to compare. Now that the USPSA scoring program supports time+ hopefully I'll be able to compare in the future for these matches as well. For me I feel an advantage when I go to an all shotgun stage because I enjoy it. I plan for the stage and how I'm going to reload and it helps. Now I just need to work on the pistol and rifle. Oh and by the way, I shoot in limited and run a pump gun, so planning, loading and efficiency play a role. I will be getting a Mossberg JM 930 Pro in the near future though! BP

Like others have said, shoot your 20 gauge until you know what you want. I shot my first 3 or 4 matches with my Mossberg 500 20 gauge. It was a little hard because I couldn't fit a mag extension to it so I was limited to 5+1. I practiced reloading and did just fine, and I shot some long, 36 round shotgun stages with that gun. Later I bought a Winchester 1300 for $100 from a buddy and have shot that since. I will be getting a Mossberg JM 930 very soon though. I've shot for two years in Limited division with a pump and never have really felt at a disadvantage, but I'm comfortable with the gun and run it fairly well. Shoot what you have and have fun! That's what it's about. BP

Cool! And back on topic, it does look like it would be a fun drill to run...humbling, but fun!

So for someone like me who can only load three shells at a time, what would be a good time. I have small hands and I've tried to load four at a time but it just doesn't work for me. Should I adapt the drill to loading six rounds at a time or should I practice the drill only loading three rounds? Mark, how will this work out at the match this month for those of us that don't load four at a time? BP

I also have a 16 inch barreled gun that I wanted to use for limited(I have been shooting limited with a red dot), so I bought an Armalite clamp-on front sight and mounted it about an inch behind my comp(mine is an HBAR barrel and it steps down right before the comp). Is it ideal, no. But I wanted to try irons without buying a new gun. I also put a National Match front sight post on. Haven't got to shoot it yet but I'm really excited. There's just something "pure" about shooting a gun with irons. BP

Me too. My wife just had our second daughter on Tuesday and we didn't get home from the hospital until Thursday. Just no time for it this year. Watching the videos of people shoot and reading the comments really makes me look forward to getting to shoot it next year though. BP

I would love to shoot heavy metal. There's nothing like running a pump 12 gauge in a match, but I like it because I run one fairly well(it's what I shoot in limited with right now), and I think it would be a big asset to me in shooting heavy metal division. The thing that keeps me from shooting in the division is the initial cost. I don't own a .45 or a .308 semi-auto rifle. The cost of buying those two pieces of equipment is above my pay grade right now(I'm a teacher and so is my wife, and my second baby will hopefully be born in the next few days). The cost of ammunition would be a little offset because I do relaod but I'm having a problem coming up with $2500+ to sink into a new rifle and pistol. So right now cost is the only thing keeping me out. Now if someone let me shoot the division with my .357 mag I might be able to scrounge money in a few months for a new rifle. BP