kabutyok Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There's no mention in Brian's book about how to shoot/engage swinging targets, is there a procedure on how to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 try the "search" button kabayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 on the swinging target its usually best to pick the shot where it "stops" before returning the other direction and shoot it there and dont try and chase it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfchorn Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Try to think of having the fewest number of things moving. Try not to have both the gun and the target moving at the same time (chasing the target) Watch the swinger in action. You can determine the timing (how fast it swings in an arc) and where it pauses before moving in the opposite direction. Aim for that spot and let the swinger move into your aiming point. That pause is your sweet spot. The same theory goes for Texas Stars. Don't chase the plates. Pick a spot and let the plates come to you. The running man may require a very slight lead, depending on distance from you and speed at which it is moving. But the theory is still the same. Don't chase it. Let it come into your aiming point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landeeno Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 I just watched a video of my last match and I counted about 7-8 shots on two hidden swingers I actually hit each one 3-4 times each but I couldnt see the holes in the target so I kept shooting Did it look embarrasing? sure! Did I end up getting all A's? well after 8 shots I sure did, Did it cost me more in time? It sure did. I'm literally just getting started in this sport and swingers are still scaring me, each event I go to I'm seeing new stuff to me, In the past month in 2 matches ive seen a slap runner, a step engaging double swinger, a step engadged double clam shell, a popper engadged clamshell/swinger combo, a hand pull swinger,a popper engaded spinner, and the dreaded texas star, It's all still very much a mind game to me but boy is it fun. If it wasnt then I wouldnt have baked last weekend in 110 degrees to sling some lead sorry this doesnt answer your question at all, I just got to writing and got caught up in all this fun. I dont know the "proper procedure" but yes id have to say i agree with letting it hit its stopping point then take it, I shot all those extra shots because I was chasing it up and down. Hope you get it all figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reichebrown Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 The swinging target is the same cardboard target as a stationary target dont make it out to more than it is. Minimizing motion and "ambushing" the target is the way to go but don't make moving targets any harder then they need to be. If you tell yourself you will need 8 shots to end up with two A's you more than likely will. Of course if you have never shot a swinger before its going to take a little bit more than positive thought to make your hits. At the match, watch the swinger as much as you can before you shoot to develop a sense of its rhythm and how it slows. Try to get it a practice session with a friend who has a swinger or most clubs have weekly practice nights. These are very valuable opportunities for many reasons. The club has props you dont have to buy and best of all chances are you will be shooting with people that are at a higher skill level and they might be willing to work with you. Getting out a practicing is a big help. I know many people that the match is their "practice." Shooting a match is a great opportunity but having the expectation that your skills will be developed under the stress of the timer is not the best way to make progress. In the end if you can make it to some live fire practice you could always throw together a mock up scaled down swinger to use for dry fire? In the end it all comes down to it trusting your sight picture and controlling the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Is Manny the only GM that tracks swingers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Is Manny the only GM that tracks swingers? I participated in the Vet's clinic prior to this year's area 1. Manny did a lesson on swingers. Having been told not to track swingers all these years, I was almost resistant to trying his tracking technique. But since he is the GM and I ain't, I decided to keep an open mind (for a change ) and try it his way. I had interesting results in the clinic so I figured what the hell, carry it over to the match. There were 7 or so swingers in the match and I think my worst score was A-C and 2A was typical with zero stress. His main point against ambush is that you tend to shoot the second shot at a much faster split than you do on a stationary target and tend to loose accuracy. Have you ever seen A-M on a swinger? I have... Just one point of view from one GM and one padawan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Is Manny the only GM that tracks swingers? Here is Nills tracking a swinger... I can tell you just based from my observation that a lot of GM-M-and some A shooters can consistently track swingers...specially if it's less than 12 yards... I think this one is a lot more tougher than conventional swingers and running mans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 In the Manny Bragg Class after the Area 1 match we worked on tracking swingers. Like most, I had always trapped them. I was amazed that I was not only hitting and getting A's, one time when I just kept shooting the swinger I was actually getting a solid group on the target. I know it feels dfferent/wrong but if more shooters actually took the time to try it they might be surprised. Whish I had taken the class before the Area 1 Match as I had a M on two different swingers during the match by trapping them. Neal in AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Tracking moving targets will ALWAYS yield better hits than trying to ambush or trap targets in a specific location within their movement. When you track the moving target your window of shooting opportunity is HUGE. When you ambush/trap a moving target your window of shooting opportunity is very narrow and usually not long enough to support two shots. This is why you see "Ambushers" with an Alpha/Mike or Alpha/Delta hits on most swingers or moving targets. The key in effectively tracking moving targets is to continue tracking WHILE you are shooting. When most people first try the "Tracking" method they have no problem tracking the target when they are not shooting but stop tracking when they want to break a shot. If you stop tracking the target when you fire the shot you are reverting back to the "Ambush" method of shooting. If you don't have a swinger to practice the "Tracking" method with an easy way to replicate the same tracking type of shooting is to use a stationary target but instead move yourself back and forth as you shoot the stationary target. This is best done by taking a wide/lower crouched stance and swaying left to right at your knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinSC Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm another Manny class alumni. And yes, when he first taught us to track the swinger, it went against what I had been told already. Like others have said, it started working right there in class, so I've kept it going since then. My results are very good. I hardly miss at all on swingers now, and I'm more comfortable shooting at them. I used to have a tendency to trap the target, and when I did, shoot three times at. Because three is better than two right? Needless to say, I used to have a lot of A-M, or C-M. Not anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie j Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I'm a B shooter and track them , hardly ever do I try to ambush them, you will almost always wind up waiting on them far too long. I don't stress over them either i shoot twice get my aa or ac and get the hell on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I don't have a swinger to practice on and I've been racking my brain on coming up with something to substitue. I'm going to try the stationary target / move myself method. Thanks for the idea Charlie. Tracking moving targets will ALWAYS yield better hits than trying to ambush or trap targets in a specific location within their movement. When you track the moving target your window of shooting opportunity is HUGE. When you ambush/trap a moving target your window of shooting opportunity is very narrow and usually not long enough to support two shots. This is why you see "Ambushers" with an Alpha/Mike or Alpha/Delta hits on most swingers or moving targets. The key in effectively tracking moving targets is to continue tracking WHILE you are shooting. When most people first try the "Tracking" method they have no problem tracking the target when they are not shooting but stop tracking when they want to break a shot. If you stop tracking the target when you fire the shot you are reverting back to the "Ambush" method of shooting. If you don't have a swinger to practice the "Tracking" method with an easy way to replicate the same tracking type of shooting is to use a stationary target but instead move yourself back and forth as you shoot the stationary target. This is best done by taking a wide/lower crouched stance and swaying left to right at your knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 (edited) Here's the Burkett Dry Fire link for swingers. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. Burkett the Swinger I like the fact that you can move the barricade with this app... So many times there's a swinger that peeks from behind a barricade. When a swinger peeks from behind a barricade it makes the swinger into a flasher. (I love these target terms!) I think trapping would work best to pop a swinger that's flashing. If you've got more exposure to establish a swing definitely track. This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's even a tracking target app. Burkett Dry Fires I wonder if Matt might read this...dry-firing swinger! DNH Edited July 12, 2012 by daves_not_here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reichebrown Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Here's the Burkett Dry Fire link for swingers. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. Burkett the Swinger This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's even a tracking target app. Burkett Dry Fires I wonder if Matt might read this...dry-firing swinger! DNH That link is awesome!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrt4me Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Here's the Burkett Dry Fire link for swingers. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. Burkett the Swinger I like the fact that you can move the barricade with this app... So many times there's a swinger that peeks from behind a barricade. When a swinger peeks from behind a barricade it makes the swinger into a flasher. (I love these target terms!) I think trapping would work best to pop a swinger that's flashing. If you've got more exposure to establish a swing definitely track. This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's even a tracking target app. Burkett Dry Fires nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If you have a chance to live fire practice with a swinger its best to put it out at a distance where you can't easily see the holes appear as you shoot. This pretty much forces you to track the target and call your shots. If its too close its very easy to get sucked into shooting then looking for holes to confirm your hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If next year's Florida Open is anything like this year, be ready for swingers! And not just your everyday full size ones either. This year most of the swingers were partial Classic targets and often there were 2 separate ones on the swinger I was still giving the swingers more attention than I should though, costs me elsewhere. On 2 stages I got the hits on the swinger and mikes on nearby open stationary targets. When tracking, do you continue to track the target when it goes behind a barrel/wall/NS/etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 If next year's Florida Open is anything like this year, be ready for swingers!... When tracking, do you continue to track the target when it goes behind a barrel/wall/NS/etc? I keep tracking and pick up the A zone when it appears. Runners For runners after finding a tracking speed, like with shooting clays, it's as easy as a stationary. Eye tracking exercise Sitting at a stop light I look at the hub of the wheels of cars passing by. Acquire the front wheel, track, then transition to the rear wheel. It's harder if you're not the first one in line which is more like dealing with cover or NS. DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabutyok Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Here's the Burkett Dry Fire link for swingers. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade. I like the fact that you can move the barricade with this app... So many times there's a swinger that peeks from behind a barricade. When a swinger peeks from behind a barricade it makes the swinger into a flasher. (I love these target terms!) I think trapping would work best to pop a swinger that's flashing. If you've got more exposure to establish a swing definitely track. This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's even a tracking target app. I wonder if Matt might read this...dry-firing swinger! DNH Great link. Thanks for sharing this, this would help me a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I don't have a swinger to practice on and I've been racking my brain on coming up with something to substitue. I'm going to try the stationary target / move myself method. Thanks for the idea Charlie. Tracking moving targets will ALWAYS yield better hits than trying to ambush or trap targets in a specific location within their movement. When you track the moving target your window of shooting opportunity is HUGE. When you ambush/trap a moving target your window of shooting opportunity is very narrow and usually not long enough to support two shots. This is why you see "Ambushers" with an Alpha/Mike or Alpha/Delta hits on most swingers or moving targets. The key in effectively tracking moving targets is to continue tracking WHILE you are shooting. When most people first try the "Tracking" method they have no problem tracking the target when they are not shooting but stop tracking when they want to break a shot. If you stop tracking the target when you fire the shot you are reverting back to the "Ambush" method of shooting. If you don't have a swinger to practice the "Tracking" method with an easy way to replicate the same tracking type of shooting is to use a stationary target but instead move yourself back and forth as you shoot the stationary target. This is best done by taking a wide/lower crouched stance and swaying left to right at your knees. Hang a tennis ball from a string at your local range.. Shoot it to get it moving and then track it.. Star at 7 yards and and move it farther as you get better.. That teaches you to track preaty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiegunks Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I just watched a video of my last match and I counted about 7-8 shots on two hidden swingers I actually hit each one 3-4 times each but I couldnt see the holes in the target so I kept shooting Did it look embarrasing? sure! Did I end up getting all A's? well after 8 shots I sure did, Did it cost me more in time? It sure did. I'm literally just getting started in this sport and swingers are still scaring me, each event I go to I'm seeing new stuff to me, In the past month in 2 matches ive seen a slap runner, a step engaging double swinger, a step engadged double clam shell, a popper engadged clamshell/swinger combo, a hand pull swinger,a popper engaded spinner, and the dreaded texas star, It's all still very much a mind game to me but boy is it fun. If it wasnt then I wouldnt have baked last weekend in 110 degrees to sling some lead sorry this doesnt answer your question at all, I just got to writing and got caught up in all this fun. I dont know the "proper procedure" but yes id have to say i agree with letting it hit its stopping point then take it, I shot all those extra shots because I was chasing it up and down. Hope you get it all figured out. man, i can not wait to see that many different target possibilities. sounds great Burkett the Swinger.Burkett Dry Fires excellent! thanks again. Edited July 13, 2012 by eddiegunks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I tried the "moving the body if you don't have a swinger" method CHA-LEE recommended. I struggled doing it smoothly at first but it didn't take long to start getting good hits even moving very fast. Hope it translates to the real movers. I'll try the tennis ball method next practice session. Thanks. I don't have a swinger to practice on and I've been racking my brain on coming up with something to substitue. I'm going to try the stationary target / move myself method. Thanks for the idea Charlie. Tracking moving targets will ALWAYS yield better hits than trying to ambush or trap targets in a specific location within their movement. When you track the moving target your window of shooting opportunity is HUGE. When you ambush/trap a moving target your window of shooting opportunity is very narrow and usually not long enough to support two shots. This is why you see "Ambushers" with an Alpha/Mike or Alpha/Delta hits on most swingers or moving targets. The key in effectively tracking moving targets is to continue tracking WHILE you are shooting. When most people first try the "Tracking" method they have no problem tracking the target when they are not shooting but stop tracking when they want to break a shot. If you stop tracking the target when you fire the shot you are reverting back to the "Ambush" method of shooting. If you don't have a swinger to practice the "Tracking" method with an easy way to replicate the same tracking type of shooting is to use a stationary target but instead move yourself back and forth as you shoot the stationary target. This is best done by taking a wide/lower crouched stance and swaying left to right at your knees. Hang a tennis ball from a string at your local range.. Shoot it to get it moving and then track it.. Star at 7 yards and and move it farther as you get better.. That teaches you to track preaty good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Ah, tennis balls and .22's. Every kid should grow up with these! The childhood memories flood my brain. I even remember an article that talked about tennis balls and coat hangar wire resetting targets. However, I'm too grown up now and only shoot at cardboard. Going to "Play It Again Sports" and pick up some used tennis balls this weekend. Thanks, DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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