pwalker Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 IMO, in the case oif the RO answering the phone, the shooter should have: a. been offered a reshoot, b. should have received an apology from the RO, and c. reported it to the MD, RM and the head of the NROI. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Personally, I don't like to include multi-string stages in a match because of the slow-down that occurs. The whole Get-your-Zen-together-on-multiple-strings thing eats up way too much time. By eliminating multi-string starts, you can run an extra stage with a single start on another bay (if available). When these stages that require multiple starts are included, I usually tell the shooter, "If you are finished, reload if necessary and holster a hot, safe weapon". Then, I stand directly in front of, or to the immediate side of the shooter and watch 'em like a Hawk. Where they put their hands isn't important as long as they leave their gun alone. Back to the original thread: If I ever saw someone acting as RO do what has been described because of a cell phone call, and making the decision to abandon their responsiblity for the loaded shooter on the range, I would at least, by any means necessary, see to it they didn't officiate any more stages for my squad that day. I would prefer to see that they didn't again officiate a stage for a minimum of 6 months (from what I understand the rules allow for such an exclusion, but I can dream, can't I?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 So, not to hijack the thread but if the RO's phone rang during the COF and he didn't answer it would the shooter get a re-shoot on the basis of RO interferrence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I'm not so sure I'd hear the phone if I was shooting. Unless the RO is in my back pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 So, not to hijack the thread but if the RO's phone rang during the COF and he didn't answer it would the shooter get a re-shoot on the basis of RO interferrence? To answer your question, no, probably not unless the ringing visibly distracted the competitor. With all due respect though, please let's keep this important topic on track. I've been around the traps for a long while now, and I honestly can't recall a more disgraceful incident of dereliction of duty. If, heaven forbid, that individual was an IROA Member, he'd be expelled from the corps before he finished the call. I only hope that whoever knows the identity of the culprit promptly files a report with John Amidon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Another great reason for USPSA to institute The Dreaded Tunnel of Wedgie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Would it be unethical to post that RO's name here on this forum, so that if he isn't reported/expelled, his little RO life becomes a slight nightmare when BE-forum members/visitors spot him at a shoot? Just a thought.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Well, I refrained to post comments on this b/c I'd like to have witnessed the whole situation, before expressing my opinion, but now I'd like throw in my 2c. If the facts were exactly as described (there might be something that people not present on the range are unaware of), I'd suggest, if said RO is a certified one, competitors witnessing the incident file a detailed report to NROI USA President (but I believe Troy could take care of him as well... ), and maybe to IROA, if he is an IROA certified official too. I don't like the idea of posting names, mainly because I prefer to have competent authority to take care of such misbehaviour rather than having folks making rough justice of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 If I am the CRO and target reset is done between strings while the competitor stays hot, I will call for the shooter to place their hands on top of their head and I will stand right by them and watch them like a hawk until all the tapers/setters are up-range safely. If it is a practice day at our range and I am on the RO duty crew, I will leave my cell phone on and carry it around. If I am running a training stage, the phone stays in my bag, not on me and if it rings at any time I am dealing with a hot or, potentially hot range, I just let it ring. You do not have to answer it. At a match it also stays in the bag, but on silent and I just check it once in a while. Anyone who leaves a shooter unsupervised within a COF to take a call, should be asked to take a walk too! -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Would it be unethical to post that RO's name here on this forum, so that if he isn't reported/expelled, his little RO life becomes a slight nightmare when BE-forum members/visitors spot him at a shoot? Yes. Please let's not resort to forming a posse, then finding a high tree and a short rope. There are official procedures in place to deal with such matters, and we should allow the relevant officials to deal with this issue accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I must apologise - my question was probably a bit harsh. I do however feel very strongly about this and really hope that this guy gets what is coming to him via the official routes with a official enquiry into what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I don't need any more details, and I don't care if his house was on fire. You never, ever, not in a million years, leave a competitor unattended with a loaded gun. I didn't need to read responses to this thread, but DID read up to the above paragraph from VP's quote... and with that.... there is nothing I can add... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 My thought was something along the lines of: "dead man walking." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 really poor judgement on the ro's part. even poorer if it gets reported and the md does nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 No way would I ever shoot that match. Sounds like the ultimate doofi running the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnL Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 An RO has as their primary responsibility the safety of the shooter, other competitors and any spectators. You can't meet that responsibility unless your full attention is focused on the gun. It still amazes me just how fast things happen during a competiors run on a COF. We only have one side of the incident but if it happened as told here then maybe this individual should find another sport to officiate; maybe chess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Johnson Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Unbelievable. I had to check the Calendar to make sure it isn't 01 April. I can't imagine anyone who went through NROI level 1 walking away from a hot shooter. Anybody know if this guy is (was) NROI certified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdt Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 I believe he was assigned by the MD to be the RO for our squad so based on that I can only assume the he is certified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 jdt - I hope that you filed a report with the NROI about this incident. Did you notify the president of the host club too? There could be liability issues if this person ROs again at that club and something happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdt Posted July 16, 2004 Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 David, I have not done anything but put it out on this forum. I guess I'm still trying to decide what to do. I know what the right thing is to do. But I enjoy the match that they put on and the people that shoot there. I also wanted to become a member of the range. I'm not a finger pointer or a tattle tail type of person. I mind my own business and live and let live so to speak. I'm not the guy (right or wrong) who yells foot fault, no shoot , proc. etc. at a match. I try to keep my opinions to myself. Since the RO is one of the main crew that help with the matches, I don't know what kind of response I would receive from the MD. My word as an outsider vs. his buddy type of thing. Typical I would normally not do anything to rock the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 jdt, I do not know you (at least I don't think I do ), nor do I know the club or the RO involved. This sounds like an unfortunate incident, but I also realize that there are two (or more) sides to every story. I will admit that I did not read through the entire thread but my advise would be.... try to talk it out locally.... if that is not successful, work through your SC and AD.... and if this really was a big problem, report the RO though the appropriate channels (see that latest Front Sight). Hopefully, he can be coached appropriately, but if not.... then you are doing all of us a favor......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 jdt, I can only say...YEAH, WHAT BDH SAID!!! Sometimes in life we have to make difficult decisions, and the right answer is not always the popular one even if it is in the best interests of the whole (friend or no friend). Whether certified or not...this guy should not be holding a timer - even at a local match!!! Think of how you would feel if at the next monthly match, somebody (the first ever in USPSA history) was KILLED because this type of incident was repeated by this individual. Somebodies mommy or daddy wouldn't be coming home, or worse, a junior shooter would not be going home to his loving parents. Would you then feel that not rocking the boat so you could keep the peace and maybe become a member would hold any significance??? IPSC is the safest sport out there for a reason. It is because we have protocals that are followed, and SEVERAL things have to go wrong on SEVERAL levels before any kind of accident could ever take place. This "stacking" of safety measures is what makes our sport the safest thing going...and with guns no less!!! I have a 6 year old son that I look forward to introducing to this sport (if he wants), but only because of this "safety factor", that has been established, and will fiercely defend its integrity regardless of who is violating the rules. I can only hope and pray that you find the strength to do what you say you know is the right thing. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Well said Jeff, well said. Those of us that hold the timer and the clipboard take on an awesome responsibility. I often wonder if many of "us" bother to remember this on a regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Thank you Kimel, and thank God for that other squad member who had his wits about him, and grabbed the timer and finished the RO's job!!! This is why I prefer to have 2 RO's at local matches (a primary and an assistant (assistant not necessarily certified)), and a 3 RO rotation (CRO, RO, Asst RO) at major matches. It gives you an added level of protection against brain fade. Although, in this circumstance it was more like total meltdown!!! Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Ok, lets dial the rhetoric down a bit. We regularly DQ competitors for their brain farts --- many of which could have serious consequences. We don't know the history of this R.O. He could be a total newbie who needs retraining. He could be someone who should never hold a timer again. He could also be a seasoned RO, who has never done anything like this --- and who never would again. If it happened at my match, I don't know what I would do with the RO in question, but I know where I'd start --- with a frank discussion of exactly what happened and why. Odds are, the attitude coming through between the lines would heavily influence my decision --- probably more so than the words flowing out of his mouth. If the guy is contrite, realizes the seriousness of the mistake, and has a history of responsibility and learning from mistakes, there a good chance I'd let him RO again in the future --- possibly under supervision to start. If any of those elements were missing ---- odds of him ROing again would be slim..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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