RO's taking phone calls

[jdt]

I"m shooting the local match this weekend and I'm watching the action, the next thing I see is the RO during the COF stop to answer his phone. He completely turned his back to the shooter to to better see the screen/caller id then he answers it and starts to walk away leaving a very inexperienced shooter blasting away. WTF! Another squad member ran up and took the timer from him and was able to finish the COF. These guys always put on a quality match and are very safety conscience. Never shot with this RO before but it seemed his mind was elsewhere that day.

[Dead Buff]

Without knowing the details of the call and going on what is stated, it makes my opinion a bit biased.

If that call was a real life-and-death situation he could have stopped the shooter and let him re-shoot later. I think no one will be cheesed off if the call was that bad. Safety first though!

ANY other reason for that call he should loose his RO status with immediate effect for life. H**l if the RO's act like that what is next?

[Vince Pinto]

I don't need any more details, and I don't care if his house was on fire. You never, ever, not in a million years, leave a competitor unattended with a loaded gun.

If the Timer Holder was expecting an urgent, life-or-death call, he should score or patch. If he wants to be an RO, then nothing else matters. You focus 100% on the competitor for 100% of the time that he has a loaded gun.

Even if the actual clubhouse catches fire, you deal with the loaded gun first, then call the fire department, then run. No excuses. Zero tolerance.

This type of story, although few and far between, makes me see red.

[Larry White]

At the very least a active phone at a match is rude and distracting(anyones phone), at the other end that is one of the stupidest things I ever heard. DQ the RO( if we dont have a rule for it make one up right then). Larry

[jdt]

I'm assuming it wasn't life or death he did continue with the match.

[A33435]

jdt, did it never came in your mind just to have a small talk with this man?

Did he RO your squad too on that match? Before or after this " incident" ?

Was there really nobody that asked questions like CRO?RM?

Greetings

Adrie

[IPSCDRL]

I"m shooting the local match this weekend and I'm watching the action, the next thing I see is the RO during the COF stop to answer his phone. He completely turned his back to the shooter to to better see the screen/caller id then he answers it and starts to walk away leaving a very inexperienced shooter blasting away.

Hard to imagine such a thing happening.

[jdt]

Adrie, He was the primary RO of my squad for the match. He is one of the main people involved with putting on the match each month. At the time I did not say anything to him but I did talk with other shooters in the squad about it. We just shrugged it off. A few things happened during the match that could have really gone bad. One the first stage we had multiple strings of fire with scoring between each string. Shooter stays hot in box. I'm down range taping, I hear a commotion behind me and I turn around and the shooter dropped his loaded pistol. DQ. Couple stages later, the phone call incident. The next stage giant 180 violation, visable to entire squad, no DQ, because compared to dropping a loaded handgun was not that big a deal seemed to be the verdict. After I thought about the match the more it started to bother me.

[TriggerT]

DAMN! Sounds like a match I would avoid in the future. Let me guess, the MD was Moe, the RM was Larry, and the CRO was Currly? Yikes!! When a match is unorganized that is bad enough, but if they have "Trained" people running the match it should NEVER, EVER be that unsafe.

[dv8]

Ouch! The guy needs a wake up call.

[.40AET]

One of the dedicated RO's at the local match took a phone call once right before the LAMR. It didn't happen to me, but I was told that it was damn distracting. I couldn't imagine it happening durring a COF.

[rtr]

Given what you described I'd stay the hell away from matches at this place.

[Jim Norman]

I think that we need to be a bit more serious than Larry Moe & Curly references here. This person needs to realize what he did and allowed to happen is/was and will be wrong!

The shooter that dropped his gun while you were down range, How did this happen? If the RO had him holster, was he screwing around with the gun? Does he have a crappy holster? Is it a good holster that is just the wrong one for the gun in use?

Just because there is a safety incident on one stage does not mean you can ignore one on the next stage!

May I ask, what range was this on? Or at least what state the match was in? I won't ask you here to ID the perps since there is always the chance of a He said, she said situation and I don't want to start that.

Jim Norman

[warpspeed]

Holy Crap! That's uncalled for. I put my cell phone on silent in the range bag and check it from time to time. Not to get off on acell phone ettiquite rant but 15 years ago almost no one had a handheld and now everybody has two!

As for the DQ's - please tell us where this was so we can stay away!

[LPatterson]

jdt,

You are far braver than I to go done range taping while someone behind you had a hot gun, even in a holster. As you discovered they can fall out.

Rule 8.3.8 "RANGE IS CLEAR" Once the declaration is made, officials and competitors MAY (my emphasis) move forward to score, patch,reset targets etc.

Rule 9.6.1 says "After the Range Officer has declared "Range is Clear", the competitor or their delegate will be allowed to accompany the official responsible for scoring to verify the scoring."

I can not find anything in the rules to suggest that anyone is allowed in front of a loaded firearm of any sort.

I am a firm believer that Mr. Murphy is always beside me inside my shadow and if it is possible for something to go wrong then it probably will.

I love to shoot but I think I would have told the Match Director that his match was too unsafe to shoot and give him the particulars, just before I left.

[davidwiz]

There was a classifier I shot on Sunday (CM 99-18 You Snooze, You Loose) that had 4 paper targets and 2 pepper poppers in the middle of the paper. COF was String 1: engage T1, T2 and PP1 and PP2. String 2: repeat string 1 procedure. So, someone had to go down and reset the steel in between strings. In my squad, whoever was the RO watched the shooter like a hawk and made him put his hands on his head while the perso went downrange. In the setup notes for the stage (see file below), it says, "If only one target array is setup, you must score the targets between strings."

CM 99-18

-David

[jdt]

Greywolf,

I believe that all squads scored with a hot shooter in the box. At the time I didn't think to much about it. But after adding up all things that went wrong at the match (at least in my squad )it's a little scary now.

Jim, I didn't see how the pistol fell out but I think the holster was a Hogue set-up for a Glock with a 1911 in it and the shooter bent down for whatever reason and it fell out.

[Nik Habicht]

As a relatively new match director (just finished my first year) I would really like to hear from shooters who identify safety problems, whether imminent, or remotely possible. I want everyone who shoots my match to be safe, to feel safe and to have a good time. I'm learning this job as I go along --- and would like all the help I can get.

I'm still amazed that no one tells me when a shooter is DQ'd at the match and I have to find out by reading the scores.....

[Neil Beverley]

Nik

Please note that the rule below:

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident, on the competitor's score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

Rule 7.1.5 says the same thing.

All match disqualifications and appeals to arbitration must be brought to his attention. The Range Master is usually appointed by and works with the Match Director

While there is no requirement for an RO to inform the MD, it is polite if possible. However, as the RM I would take this on myself to keep the MD up to date. Once the RO has told me they should feel that they have satisfied their responsibility.

As for the phone thing ............ words fail me!

[short_round]

In the setup notes for the stage (see file below), it says, "If only one target array is setup, you must score the targets between strings."

I doesn't say not to unload and show clear between strings though.

[short_round]

I don't need any more details, and I don't care if his house was on fire. You never, ever, not in a million years, leave a competitor unattended with a loaded gun.

Sounds like a good time to try out those RO disciplinary action items I was reading about in the last Front Sight.

[Jim Norman]

David,

I was also at the same match. It is my policy that when we send a person downrange to score or set, or reset a piece of steel that fell before starting the shooter, I have him stand easy with his arms hanging at his sides. I do not allow myself to get as far away as an arms length from him. That is me and I feel safe with that. I do not have the shooter put his hands over his head as it will drain the blood (Yeah, iknow, there is stil blood in his arms) from his arms and caause weakness in more than a few people. That to me presents a greater risk, since he may lose control of his gun after drawing. As to ULSC between strings, not necessary in my book.

Nik,

I agree, I can't understand that either, If there is a DQ, why have you not come to tell me? As MD, Assistant MD, HMFIC or what ever my current title is, I need to know. What really gets me is when the shooter or someone else tosses out a scoresheet for a DQ'd shooter. I have spent hours looking for a scoresheet so i could finish the scores only to find out that "OH! Him, he DQ'd so we tossed his sheet!" Thanks a lot!

Jim

Jim Norman

[kimel]

Ya know, stuff like answering a cellphone call during a match, let alone the RO doing it, is enough to make me support a rule against "active" cell phones on the range. If I was the MD/RM I would have a local rule against the damn things.

Your cell rings and it just became a 10 point bonus target during the next COF.

That RO needs to have their certifcation lifted...are they even certified? Either way, they need remedial training.

I feel lucky that at least one of the ranges I shoot at lacks cell service unless you stand at the top of a particular berm facing just so or have a car kit with an external antenna and park in just the right spot.

[jdt]

As serious as a dropped loaded pistol and 180 violations are, to me they pale in comparison to an RO leaving a shooter unattended during a COF for any reason let alone to answer the phone. It seems like a whole other level. I go to matches aware of the fact that someone (or myself for that matter) may break the 180, have an AD, or drop a firearm at anytime and I accept that risk. S**t happens. But to watch an RO stop to answer his phone, turn his back to the shooter and start to leave the COF just seems like such a blatant disregard of the rules and a callused attitude for the safety of the squad.

[davidwiz]

Jim - Good point about arms over head, I hadn't thought of that. The end result is the same - RO watch hot IPSC'er like hawk while person downrange resets the props.

As for the person who suggested unloading the shooter in between strings, you could do that. But the stage would take at least 2x as long, and who wants to stand in the hot sun all day. As long as the shooter w/ the loaded, holstered gun and the RO are aware that someone has to go downrange to reset a prop, there shouldn't be a problem.

-David