Are your Production mags vertical, forward cant, or rearward? Why?

[Jeanjacket]

I was the recent victim of generosity by a fellow shooter, who is letting me borrow some of his CR Versa mag pouches.

Coming from my previous double mag pouches shown here:

These sweet single mag holders offer me flexibility in the way of mounting angle, or cant, which I didn't really have to deal with on the doubles.

I've been told that most people mount their mags with a rearward cant, and whenever I see pictures of race gear and whatnot, it does seem to be the case. I haven't paid much attention to the people I shoot with, but I imagine most people that have the option, would also be doing the same.

I've mounted the holders with both a rearward and a forward cant and here are a few things I have noticed, let me know what you guys think:

Keep in mind that this will be for a PRODUCTION setup, so everything behind the hip. Also I may have some things flat out wrong; feel free to correct.

Forward cant:

(Ignore that the mags sit real high, being a newbie to the CR system, I mounted the spacers a little funny when I took this picture)

-- PRO: Mags are closer to centerline of shooter meaning the hand does not have to travel as far from the gun to reach a mag in a position respective to an alternative cant.

-- PRO: Rear mags are relatively easy to reach, and become (respective to other cant angles) easier to reach.

-- CON: Angle of mag is away from gun, meaning after shooting, shooter must drastically change wrist position downward to grab mag and return the wrist to original position to feed magazine into gun. Greater wrist movement when compared to alternative cants.

Rearward cant:

(Perhaps I've made the angle a little to extreme, so if I'm convinced I may go back and try with a more slight rearward cant, vs such an extreme one.)

-- PRO: Now this is just a guess, but I think the idea behind the rearward cant is such that when you reach down for the magazine, the angle with which your hand grabs the mag is closer to the angle at which you feed it to your gun in comparison to other cant options.

-- CON: Must reach farther back for every mag respective to alternative cants.

-- CON: Rear mags are pretty dang hard to reach. The fourth mag is already a pretty good stretch to get to, the fifth is downright uncomfortable. Though I imagine the further back you go, the more upright I'd have to orient the mag holders for that reason.

Vertical cant:

-- PRO: Exact same mag angle for every grab, though this may somewhat irrelevant since your arm angle will change the further back you go.

Regarding grabbing angles, with a rearward cant, it also seems that you're having to change momentum a little more drastically to achieve a mag change... or rather it's just a different type of momentum change maybe. Explanation:

Rearward cant - arm swings downward, grab mag, jerk backward to pull mag from holder, jerk forward and upward towards gun.

Forward cant - arm swings downward, grab mag, jerk upward/forward to pull mag and towards gun.

It just seems like there's an extra step with the rearward cant, BUT perhaps the savings of not having to turn the mag/wrist as much makes it worth it? Don't know... my thinking is all over the place. Someone sort it for me lol.

I'll note further that the rearward cant might make more sense in Lim/L10/Open, since you can get the holders at your centerline, which would make grabbing mags from directly in front of you a little bit more natural, but I'm struggling to see the benefit in Production division. Right now I feel that a slight forward, or even vertical cant has the advantage over the rearward, but that may just be my style of play. I don't know if any "pros" do that at all, and if no one at all uses a forward cant, it would lead me to question why it seems to feel better to me.

I know we should generally always "do what is comfortable for YOU", but maybe I'm missing something, hence the reason for the thread.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jeanjacket

[John Tuley]

When I shot L10, I had four pouches, starting around where the belt buckle would have been. Those first couple were angled back, but the last two were angled forward.

Basically, I loosened the cant adjustment on each one and positioned it to the most natural angle, to keep my wrist as straight and "comfortable" as possible. So they kind of reverse-fanned, like / / | \.

With production, of course, you have to start behind the hip line -- but I suggest the same process. Start by loosening the screws that hold the pouches at a certain cant, position according to what feels right, tighten, and move to next one. Don't start by assuming that they should all be canted at the same angle, or even in the same direction.

-- John.

[HoMiE]

I can't find a post but I thought the magazines had to be vertical for Production like the picture in appendix E3 of USPSA rule book as well as being behind the hip bone.

[steel1212]

I can't find a post but I thought the magazines had to be vertical for Production like the picture in appendix E3 of USPSA rule book as well as being behind the hip bone.

As long as they are behind the hip bone you can have them upside down if you want.

Allen, if you want to bring them back to me I'll set them up for you lol. I angle the first mag a little rearward, actually my dryfire did it for me. After that the other 4 are straight up. Us your body's natural positioning to set up your gear.

[jdphotoguy]

Mine are nearly vertical with a very slight rearward cant

[sirveyr]

Allan,

IMO, you may be over thinking this.

I believe that most PRD and SS shooters have their pouches vertical. This is how I and all of my buddies run ours. Also, since I play both games, I like to keep things as similar as possible.

[Jeanjacket]

Allen, if you want to bring them back to me I'll set them up for you lol. I angle the first mag a little rearward, actually my dryfire did it for me. After that the other 4 are straight up. Us your body's natural positioning to set up your gear.

Hahah no I'll do this on my own!! And make all my own mistakes! hahah. Yeah I've been leaning more towards staying mostly vertical.. As I continually readjust for different angles, closer to vertical seems to come out better...

IMO, you may be over thinking this.

I get that a lot... lol

[blaster113]

all Prod. mag pouches are vertical, just feels more natural since pouches cant be past the hip bone and there are four of them on the belt. plus it keeps the mags in roughly the same alignment when I shoot Limited/Open. 1st two pouches on the Limited/Open rig are in front of the hipbone in close; about a 45 deg cant backwards roughly were the pouche on the work rig is. 3rd pouch is right on the hipbone vertical like the 1st one is on the Prod. rig

[TimMTP]

Mine are vertical now after some trial and error. I tried angled back but found that the rear ones were hard to reach because they were back further and also that sometimes the base of the mag I was pulling would snag the lip of the mag behind it causing me to lose a mag during a course of fire.

[LexTalionis]

I have five mag pouches:

First one - rearward cant

Second - slight rearward cant

Third - vertical

Fourth - slight forward cant

Fifth - forward cant

[MoNsTeR]

Vertical, mainly because I don't have (or want) adjustable mag pouches on my Production rig.

[Steve RA]

Always mounted mine (5) with rearward cant at front - ending up with vertical at rearmost mag.

[bigfish]

Mine are all vertical just because I like them all as far forward as possible while still being production legal. With 6 mags takes up alot of space

[Outsydlooknin75]

This brings up an idea......mag holder has to be behind the hip bone......but mag can lean forward of the hip can it not?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

[Shokr21]

All of mine are vertical. 4 in a comptac belt feed and 2 in an uncle mike's double pouch

[Nik Habicht]

All of mine are vertical. 4 in a comptac belt feed and 2 in an uncle mike's double pouch

+1. Except that my last two are in Comp-Tac and Blade-Tech single mag pouches.....

[kevin c]

I have five vertical. They're up and down because, reaching that far back, it most closely matches the drawing motion I use. As I understand the rules, all parts of the gear have to be behind the hip bone, so canting them forward would mean all the mags would have to be moved further to the rear, making it more awkward (for me) to get to the 2nd or 3rd mag. Upright, they are more foward on the belt and more accessible.

If there were a style of pouch that was really narrow and could be rotated, I might try it, but all the Limited/Open style pouches I tested were too bulky to space close and cant at the same time.

I used to have an upside down mounted Safariland holder as my 5th, way back near the small of the back. It was a "horizontal draw". I would occasionally snag it on the backs of chairs/props in start positions, so I switched to a 5th regular pouch.

Edited November 16, 2012 by kevin c

[DerrickJ]

With the mags having to be behind the hip, I have found that canted mags put them too far back to be usable. Verticals have their draw backs, but they are the lesser of the evils IMO.

[JimmyZip]

Three double pouches, but I cant see going canted like my ltd rig as to the limited space. I'm leaning on changing to the holders on edge though. Think my index finger would like that the best from the vertical.

JZ

[jualdeaux]

I use a progressive cant system..The first is straight, the second is just very slightly canted and 3, 4 and 5 are canted a bit more each. By the time I get to #5 I am reaching back quite a bit and I've found out that, for me, it is easier to draw them out of the pouch.

When they were all vertical, I had to reach back, grab the mag, pull up and then start moving it forward. This way I grab the mag and pull forward, one less motion.

But that is just my way.

[claycrusher]

I use vertical mag holders, mostly because that's what I've trained with and used as a LEO for years. I really like having the exact same may position every time and it seems more comfortable of a grip as I draw it.