EmanP Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I understand what he was refering to, I just don't get why it's supposed to be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Next time I am charged by a pack of quadriplegic floating mexicans or a gang of pregnant midget albinos or have a stand off with a baby-head pinwheel. I know I will be "ready to rock" with my specialized Open gun. Will you be ready? Dunno why people didn't get this, I thought it was hilarious. Think paper targets, pepper poppers, and a texas star. Sheer genius that guy huh? Too bad he's not around here anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I've been carrying a Glock at work for over 20 years (cop for 30 years, started in 1982 with revolvers), every day, sometimes all night. I started shooting USPSA with a friend in July of 2010, and I started with a Glock 35 in Limited. I started in Limited because that's what my friend shoots (Brazos Custom 2011. I love Glocks. Then I shot his 2011, and bought one. I love it, and I shoot Limited because I've been trying to beat my friend at one sport or another for 25 or so years (the only thing I can best him at is long range precision rifle-guess which one I used to practice at the most?). I like buying new toys, and have a pnchant for expensive pistols, rifles, guitars and in younger days motorcycles. I am extremely mediocre at all of tehm, but I still like to race. I think the Limited Divison is fun, and have been thinking about a flashback to my early cop days and getting a 625 (becuase I can't find a 610). does that mean I will be competitive in the Revolver Division? Nope. As to who competes in which Division, with what, I could not care less. All the top level guys I have had a chance to talk to have been really friendly, and did not hesitate to talk with an "also ran." At the Alabama Sectional I spent about 10 minutes talking wtih KC while waiting on a slower squad. He was a really nice guy, and seemed to be a great ambassador for which ever sponsor hs is representing. So from an "also ran," I don't really care who shoots for who, but I still wanna watch them shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 .. I'd love to do what they do. Shoot for money... sweet!!!! To each his own, but no thanks. By getting paid to shoot that means it's your job. And by making it your job that means you have a boss. And a boss wants his employees to do what he wants, how he wants it and when he wants it. If a big company comes out with a new gun legal for production, SS, etc. there's a good chance you'll have to be competing with that gun whether you like it or not. There's a great story and quote by one of the greatest shooters ever about fully sponsored shooters: " I was greedy and I took their money. Not long after that a shooter approached me and thanked me for writing Practical Shooting, and then, with a twinkle in his eye said, "I’m happy for you that you are being paid to do what you love, but I couldn’t do it. I love shooting too much." He knew. Sponsorship is not what you think. As soon as you are being paid to do something you love, everything changes. If you haven’t been there I know it’s hard to believe. But trust me, it’s true. I clearly remember the determination and drive I used to have. I haven’t felt that in a long time. Not since I have been paid to shoot. " This! I've loved photography since before I was eight. Got my first camera, and a film/processing allowance when I was eight, my first SLR when I was 14. At age 25 I had my first image published in the newspaper, and that started an almost 15 year career as a newspaper photographer. I was bought out in 2006, sold my gear when I decided to go to nursing school, and haven't wanted to take a picture until very recently. It's great to have the drive back, to engage in one of my lifelong passions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I bought a gun and practiced with it to make sure I knew how to use it. I took classes and eventually I began to shot IDPA and then later USPSA to bring my skill level up. First time my friend, girlfriend and I went to a USPSA type indoor match to get a taste for it was ridiculous. We showed up off the street just as we where and they nearly had a heart attack to find that we were hot, concealed and ready to rock. There were nothing but Limited and Open guns. Not a single one of them carried their guns or even thought about it or could even if they wanted. All they could do was shoot some super duper space age raced out pistol that wouldn't do them any good in the real world and wouldn't know how to shoot a real gun to save their lives, literally. They tried to make us feel like we didn't know what we were doing and dangerous even though we out shot every one but one guy. Even my GF made them look like idiots and they tried to tell her she was going too fast. I felt sorry for them, I still do. I have no want to shoot some specialized gun. I want to shoot limited and open as much as drive an Indy or funny car to work and back every day. If it's not practical, it's worthless. You want to go fast but the only reason you can do it is because the equipment let's you, not because you're that good. An open gun might not be my first choice, since I don't shoot open with a "standard concept open gun." But I don't think I'd call it impractical, or turn my nose up at it, if it was the only thing available..... My limited gun? I've got an IWB holster for it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I bought a gun and practiced with it to make sure I knew how to use it. I took classes and eventually I began to shot IDPA and then later USPSA to bring my skill level up. First time my friend, girlfriend and I went to a USPSA type indoor match to get a taste for it was ridiculous. We showed up off the street just as we where and they nearly had a heart attack to find that we were hot, concealed and ready to rock. There were nothing but Limited and Open guns. Not a single one of them carried their guns or even thought about it or could even if they wanted. All they could do was shoot some super duper space age raced out pistol that wouldn't do them any good in the real world and wouldn't know how to shoot a real gun to save their lives, literally. They tried to make us feel like we didn't know what we were doing and dangerous even though we out shot every one but one guy. Even my GF made them look like idiots and they tried to tell her she was going too fast. I felt sorry for them, I still do. I have no want to shoot some specialized gun. I want to shoot limited and open as much as drive an Indy or funny car to work and back every day. If it's not practical, it's worthless. You want to go fast but the only reason you can do it is because the equipment let's you, not because you're that good. we wanna see videos!!!!! Yeah, those might be good for a chuckle..... I got my start at an indoor range's monthly IDPA match.... It was entertaining when the USPSA crowd discovered us and started showing up. So much so that they recruited me right outa there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I doubt many, if any USPSA folks will be swayed to switch divisions based upon who is shooting it. Gun brands yes, divisions no. There are usually very specific reasons why we choose the division(s) we shoot and rarely is it about there being a great shooter in that division. Every divisions Thundergods that we all admire. Taurus could go bonkers and offer full rides to all the top shooters to shoot revo and I would not bet on a huge shift to wheelguns at matches. Well, maybe...maybe not. Shooting a Glock and having made GM in Limited...where the competition was (still is)...I didn't switch over to Production until I saw that Sevigny was going to stay there. If he would have bailed, I would likely still be shooting Limited. To me, Dave made that division. It likely would have grown in numbers, but now it has also grown in really legit competition. As to the opening post...the shake up is that 3 of the very best Open shooters are likely going to be shooting something other than Open for most of the year. No doubt Dave Sevigny had a huge impact on the popularity of the division. Probably larger than most others, but there have been others..... Rob Leatham has been talking it up for years.... Todd Jarrett was pretty supportive when I took his class with a Glock, and unsurprisingly he knew how to shoot a Glock well.... Locally, two top sixteen finishers at the Nationals did a lot for the division early: Dave Olhasso -- first Production GM, IIRC -- and Dave Marques. They kept me shooting Production, because they were a constant benchmark to compare myself to. (Yes, we had J.J. shooting matches locally too, but infrequently at the time, making it harder to gauge progress.) Locally also, it kept being interesting because when I was a C class shooter I was regularly shooting against, and trashtalking with two friends who have since moved on to other pursuits. We used to battle it out for top C shooter. When I got my B card, I had that same experience with two others, who either are, or have already deserted me for A..... There were other surprises -- like at the '03 or '04 Production Nats when the burning question was "who the heck is Matt Mink?" All of those folks achievements, and dedication to keeping local matches running, have helped to make Production successful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I doubt many, if any USPSA folks will be swayed to switch divisions based upon who is shooting it. Gun brands yes, divisions no. There are usually very specific reasons why we choose the division(s) we shoot and rarely is it about there being a great shooter in that division. Every divisions Thundergods that we all admire. Taurus could go bonkers and offer full rides to all the top shooters to shoot revo and I would not bet on a huge shift to wheelguns at matches. Well, maybe...maybe not. Shooting a Glock and having made GM in Limited...where the competition was (still is)...I didn't switch over to Production until I saw that Sevigny was going to stay there. If he would have bailed, I would likely still be shooting Limited. To me, Dave made that division. It likely would have grown in numbers, but now it has also grown in really legit competition. As to the opening post...the shake up is that 3 of the very best Open shooters are likely going to be shooting something other than Open for most of the year. Good point. I am so used to shooting with Rob, Angus, and Nils (although he is basically shooting Limited now) out here that I forget they are not regularly seen on the Area circuit. I've always thought of Production as loaded with talent because of what I am exposed to locally. The same doesn't apply for the rest of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Production will never out do open at the highest levels because the open guys will still be posting the fastest stages and have the biggest fan appeal. It doesn't matter if the universal top 10 in open switch to production, they are all names the average shooter doesn't know and won't care about as soon as they're outpaced by a loud, fast, cool looking, open division shooter. Most of you are thinking about it too much, it's just a simple concept. The fastest = the most admired. Edited May 10, 2012 by Whoops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I could not disagree more. Open is not nearly king of the roost it use to be. It does not have the biggest fan base. Reality is SA/Glock/STI/SW etc sell more non-Open guns. Sales determine popularity. Oh and I am shooting an SV Open gun. It is not my favorite gun-my SS is now my favorite gun but Open is fun to shoot-for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think we're talking two different aspects here, I'm talking in terms of most admired, you're talking in terms of fan base. Most people who shoot don't justify the cost in open, thus they go with production making it the largest division. But, the most admired shooters all got most famous from shooting the fastest in open. Example, Racaza and Grauffel vs. Nils and Tyc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I believe the Original poster in this thread made the "assumption" that with KC Eusebio going to Glock that meant he would be shooting Production, like the other GMs mentioned (JJ & Grauffel). But I hate to tell you ... KC signed up to shoot the Ohio Section as an OPEN GM, shooting Major! What does THAT mean? An Open Glock that works??? Hmmmmmm ......... I have to see this! #1 Post: Grauffel is going to Production. KC Eusebio announced he is part of Team Glock (and said he may have shot his last match with a 2011). JJ is going with a Caracal for Production division. This doesn't seem like the normal course of action where a manufacturer simply pastes it's name on a 2011 built by someone else. Will these guys make their presence felt immediately, or will it take some time to make the transition? What does it mean for the sport? More major gun sponsors? Production becoming the dominant division (over time)? Other thoughts? Edited May 11, 2012 by Chris Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glefos Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I think we're talking two different aspects here, I'm talking in terms of most admired, you're talking in terms of fan base. Most people who shoot don't justify the cost in open, thus they go with production making it the largest division. But, the most admired shooters all got most famous from shooting the fastest in open. Example, Racaza and Grauffel vs. Nils and Tyc. Speak for yorself. Have you ever watched a Production National Champ? How about Jerry driving a revolver? Talent is talent. You can't be a part of this sport and not be in complete awe of the top shooter's skill level, regardless of Division. I do not admire Open shooters more than the Elite in any other Division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoops! Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 If I were apeaking for myself I would say no one impresses me, only gives me another goal to strive for. I'm speaking for what I believe is the impression of the majority. Certain people are more famous than others for a reason. In IPSC, that reason is overall fastest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 But, the most admired shooters all got most famous from shooting the fastest in open. Example, Racaza and Grauffel vs. Nils and Tyc. Who are those guys? I've heard of nils and adam tyc, because they shoot guns not all that far off from what I carry. I don't really follow the spaceman spiff division where the guns look they're from alpha-centauri. I've actually heard the most about sevigny and hobdell. Never heard of mr Racaza or Grauffel in my entire life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBoyle Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 (edited) Then you must not get Front Sight! Edited May 17, 2012 by BBoyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trini Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 But, the most admired shooters all got most famous from shooting the fastest in open. Example, Racaza and Grauffel vs. Nils and Tyc. Who are those guys? I've heard of nils and adam tyc, because they shoot guns not all that far off from what I carry. I don't really follow the spaceman spiff division where the guns look they're from alpha-centauri. I've actually heard the most about sevigny and hobdell. Never heard of mr Racaza or Grauffel in my entire life. The search part of this forum can be your friend..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 But, the most admired shooters all got most famous from shooting the fastest in open. Example, Racaza and Grauffel vs. Nils and Tyc. Who are those guys? I've heard of nils and adam tyc, because they shoot guns not all that far off from what I carry. I don't really follow the spaceman spiff division where the guns look they're from alpha-centauri. I've actually heard the most about sevigny and hobdell. Never heard of mr Racaza or Grauffel in my entire life. The search part of this forum can be your friend..... The point isn't "gee, will someone tell me who those guys are". The point is not everyone really cares about open division as much as some posters think, and some people ignore it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 space man spiff ............. not insulting at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) space man spiff ............. not insulting at all. Lol, if that *really* offends you, I'll happily edit my post and issue a written apology. I sort of assumed that people into open guns enjoy the high-technology non-traditional aspect of that division, but if I misjudged, let me know and the apology will be immediately forthcoming. I personally think the spaceman-spiff guns are pretty cool, I'm just not personally interested in owning/shooting one (yet). Edited May 19, 2012 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdahoShooter Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 space man spiff ............. not insulting at all. I personally think the spaceman-spiff guns are pretty cool, I'm just not personally interested in owning/shooting one (yet). That's what I thought too until a month ago when I put one of the Buck Roger sights on my .22 steel gun... now I have to say, the appeal is there for me to put one on my real gun now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I personally think the spaceman-spiff guns are pretty cool, I'm just not personally interested in owning/shooting one (yet). That's what I thought too until a month ago when I put one of the Buck Roger sights on my .22 steel gun... now I have to say, the appeal is there for me to put one on my real gun now... Hmm, that's a good point, because I have occasionally been tempted to look closer at a red-dot for my buckmark. Perhaps I'll end up eating my words sometime in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 JJ..is shooting limited this week at VA/MA match-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bshooter Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Remember the old saying, "Money talks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadslinger275 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) I don't see Production becoming the predominant division at the highest levels of competition. It may become predominant by shear numbers with all the new shooters coming into the sport. No disrespect, but I disagree... Vogel, Sevigny, Seeklander, TGO, Butler, and Strader all compete in Production (along with other divisions obviously) and I could go on and on. Now the addition of KC ... I think it is overall the deepest division because the pros don't have to be a "specialist" to be competitive like Open or Revo. Production is purely based off skill because all of the equipment is very similar. It is up for grabs year in and year out. The only "match" that is deeper is the SS Nationals... that is because all the top Production guys shoot that match. Limited is the only division that you could make an argument being competitive with the overall talent pool of the Production division. Edited May 29, 2012 by leadslinger275 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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