theblacknight Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 How are you supposed to shoot this COF with a static fault line? You can get T1 and T2 is doable. But how about T3? Strong hand only. Yeah but if you stuck your arm way out around that corner to get T3 someone might grab your hand, hip throw you and take your gun. So while it'll work, it won't work. We're back to bang bang shuffle shuffle bang bang. Only if he's shooting sim rounds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The current game the way we currently shoot it only needs to be firmed up with a well written rule book and better implementation from club to club. The rules themselves don't need to be changed. If some of you guys think there will be radical rule changes, stop kidding yourself. There won't be. Copperas Cove Pistol club got me into IDPA and USPSA shooting can't wait to come back and shoot again if they ever let me get back to TEXAS. Still sport the patch on my IDPA jacket. Thought I would share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 The current game the way we currently shoot it only needs to be firmed up with a well written rule book and better implementation from club to club. The rules themselves don't need to be changed. If some of you guys think there will be radical rule changes, stop kidding yourself. There won't be. Copperas Cove Pistol club got me into IDPA and USPSA shooting can't wait to come back and shoot again if they ever let me get back to TEXAS. Still sport the patch on my IDPA jacket. Thought I would share. Hey, Allen. I hope you can get back. There are even more match opportunities in the Fort Hood area now. Three IDPA matches and a regulation Steel Challenge match between CCPC and Temple Gun Club. CCPC's Action Pistol Match is now all falling steel and the 3-gun of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 Wow that good Stuff. I remember when it was just the one club that good i keep telling all my buddies to check that place out when they go down to Hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickB Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Since IDPA is a sport in which we use full-power ammo, how about bumping CDP to 195,000 power factor, and restoring 10mm (and whatever else will make the pf). Striker-fired guns to ESP/CDP. Define cover as a physical place (wall, car, barricade, etc.), and any open ground between these objects as not cover. That would introduce some sort of proximity requirement, which might cause more problems than it solves. Do not adopt the addendum rule that allows shooting while moving only at the start of a stage. Allow any gun that is division-legal to replace a broken gun in that division. Create a penalty for misses, rather than just dropped points, so it hurts at least as much as FTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss1622 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I would like to see a rule change that creates more of a gap between SSP and ESP, if you look at the results of any major match the top 3 shooters in each class for these divisions will show SSP is just a fast as ESP. IDPA could speed up ESP by allowing something like a USPSA Limited gun (with a 10 round limit). Or they could slow down SSP by requiring true Double-Single action and moving all striker guns to ESP. This would give the Berretta and Sig shooters a change to be more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 And at matches that don't have CDP shooters doing extra reloads, their top times are just as good as SSP and ESP. Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeker Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I would like to see a rule change that creates more of a gap between SSP and ESP, if you look at the results of any major match the top 3 shooters in each class for these divisions will show SSP is just a fast as ESP. IDPA could speed up ESP by allowing something like a USPSA Limited gun (with a 10 round limit). Or they could slow down SSP by requiring true Double-Single action and moving all striker guns to ESP. This would give the Berretta and Sig shooters a change to be more competitive. I wonder if Ben Stoeger is aware that his Beretta is not competitive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have been trying to stay out of it, but ill put my 2 cents in PF, i dont see how establishing a major and minor PF helps the sport, PF was just lowered to make SSR viable with most commercial ammo. I feel this turns it into "USPSA" Jr. The whole premise of the sport is about the shooter and not the gear, and i feel that MIN/MAG PF takes away from that.I am assuming that proponents of this want major and minor scoring too..... Knee Pads - couple of thoughts on them, i dont care either way, honestly i think it should be up to the MD on whether or not they are allowed, but for those looking for black/white ruling on the issue, sufficient padding must be provided for ALL knelling potions (see no more knee pads) , and kneeling positions can only occur at the final position in a course of fire (there helps out those who can get down, but have problems getting up and takes away any competitive advantage gained/lost) Divisions - Leave them, if any thing the tiger teams should be looking at ways to get more shooters into SSR, ESR, and CDP to get some of the congestion out of SSP and ESP. I am also getting tired of people trying to get the game changed to fit their gun. Live with the rules or move on. Harsh i know. PPQ shooters face the same problem as XD/XDm shooters yet i dont hear them crying. FTDR - again one of the more vague rules but i still think it has a place. Ive ran shooters as an SO that choose to barney up on some stages for better reloads and down load to 10 on others. same as using a 7 v 8 and 9 v 10 round mag to start with 1911's in CDP/ESP respectively. this penalty discourages that where as a PE does not. Mag Capacity - in some state the legal limit is 10 rounds in a mag, perhaps the main reason capacity is 10+1, if you want to shoot more rounds from your "big 170mm stick" head over to USPSA/IPSC and play that game. Reloads - keep them but eliminate tactical reload from IDPA vocabulary and just call it a reload with retention - this way mall ninja's are not confused. Additional Rules/Changes - Sweeping one's self will result in a DQ, if i am not mistaken, IDPA is about the only action shooting sport that does not have this rule. - Hammer down should be changed to "dry fire", many of the shooters i have ran with decockers take this command to decock the gun where a dry fire is required. - Would like to see a minimum of two IDPA trained SO's per bay/squad. this will help with the enforcement and application of IDPA rules and typically provided a better/more consistant experience IMHO. Personally i feel that the success or failure of an IDPA program rest on the shoulders of the MD and his/her staff. MD's that dont make their SO's go through training, are generally unorganized, and put matches together the last minute do not run good matches which leads to a bad experience (ive been to a few such clubs) compared to clubs that have strong leadership and well trained SO's and SO development programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Extremely well said hkguy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 As I said when we were discussing dropping mags, there's an important distinction between what's right in any one instance and what makes for a good general-case rule, because (1) we want the rules of a game or sport to be clear and easy to adjudicate, and (2) we want to instill the right skills and habits for use outside the game. Allowing a shooter to drop an empty magazine as long as he has a round in the chamber seems perfectly reasonable, at a glance, because there's nothing wrong with dropping an empty mag before you've gone to slide-lock -- but allowing that in competition means failing to test everyone's ability to reload from slide-lock, something that probably comes up way more often outside the game, since real-life defensive shooting rarely involves planning out mag changes ahead of time. Along the same lines, none of us would download a high-capacity pistol to just 10+1 rounds, but having that rule in the game means (1) we're forced to practice more mag changes, and (2) we're on a more level playing field for comparing skills, if not equipment. In fact, I don't think it would be crazy to start off everyone downloaded to eight shots, or even six, at the start of each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have shot stages with pre-set up magazines before. Sometimes we start with 1, have to shoot an activator then reload. That's usually exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I have been trying to stay out of it, but ill put my 2 cents in PF, i dont see how establishing a major and minor PF helps the sport, PF was just lowered to make SSR viable with most commercial ammo. I feel this turns it into "USPSA" Jr. The whole premise of the sport is about the shooter and not the gear, and i feel that MIN/MAG PF takes away from that.I am assuming that proponents of this want major and minor scoring too..... I don't know that major and minor pf and scoring is the answer, but I think it's a bit of a mistake for IDPA to actively discourage the most popular defensive cartridge (.40) by making it equal to 9mm in every way (scoring, division, etc...) How many people carry a .40 for CCW or duty but compete with a 9mm. But I don't really care, since I have 9 and 40 both and can easily load the 40 down to non-real-world-gamer specifications for when I play the IDPA game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I would like to see a rule change that creates more of a gap between SSP and ESP, if you look at the results of any major match the top 3 shooters in each class for these divisions will show SSP is just a fast as ESP. Alternatively, we could merge ESP and SSP into one division, since the equipment does not seem to make much difference. IDPA could speed up ESP by allowing something like a USPSA Limited gun (with a 10 round limit). Or they could slow down SSP by requiring true Double-Single action and moving all striker guns to ESP. This would give the Berretta and Sig shooters a change to be more competitive. I'd prefer to see one division covering what we currently call ESP and SSP, since they're so similar, and one new division for compact pistols (Glock 19, etc.), since those are perhaps the most popular "carry" pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 That's a good idea. Have a few divisions based on size of pistol. If a Glock 19 or 23 could compete against other similar guns without having to worry about someone showing up with a G34 we might see more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I'd prefer to see one division covering what we currently call ESP and SSP, since they're so similar, and one new division for compact pistols (Glock 19, etc.), since those are perhaps the most popular "carry" pistols. +1. It would be nice to see a division based on real practical defensive carry pistols instead of full-sized gamer rigs. Of course you'd have the cz guys trying to make sure the p01 was considered compact, but those cz guys are all gamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuey134 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I'd like to be able to load my mags all the way up and drop mags where ever I please. But, I accept the game for what it is and enjoy it just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hkguy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's a good idea. Have a few divisions based on size of pistol. If a Glock 19 or 23 could compete against other similar guns without having to worry about someone showing up with a G34 we might see more of them. Bug your MD to run a full bug match then. FWIW i have seen master class shooter shoot just as well with a G19 and G34...... again its all about the Indian and not the bow/arrow.... You could also have your MD set up a BUG match so you can shoot those little guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's a good idea. Have a few divisions based on size of pistol. If a Glock 19 or 23 could compete against other similar guns without having to worry about someone showing up with a G34 we might see more of them. I'd love to see divisions for full-size, compact, and subcompact pistols, so the guns people really carry don't end up relegated to annual BUG matches with all sorts of limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's a good idea. Have a few divisions based on size of pistol. If a Glock 19 or 23 could compete against other similar guns without having to worry about someone showing up with a G34 we might see more of them. Bug your MD to run a full bug match then. FWIW i have seen master class shooter shoot just as well with a G19 and G34...... again its all about the Indian and not the bow/arrow.... You could also have your MD set up a BUG match so you can shoot those little guns. The 19 is too big for the BUG rules in IDPA...plus BUG matches are lame. 5 shots only and no reloads on the clock. If there was a compact division in IDPA that didn't have to compete against the full size division you'd see more Glock 26, 27, 19 and 23 at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 ...plus BUG matches are lame. 5 shots only and no reloads on the clock. I would much rather see a subcompact division that shot ordinary stages with BUG-sized guns. Division capacity could be six rounds, and it could even require an inside-the-waistband holster. (I hope that qualifies as not USPSA Lite.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I shot a match (as a re-run through the match, so not for official score) with my G27L and an IWB on Monday. It was fun but I like winning too much to shoot the main match that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I would also like to see the divisions based on gun size and power not action type, I think action types are very overrated as to how well they can be shot, but A 3" carry gun be it DA, DA/SA, or SA is at a massive disadvantage when it is up against a 5+ inch Gun. I would not feel out gunned with my G17 shooting against a 9mm 1911, but I sure would with a G26 against a G34. I would also like to be able to shoot my 10mm in CDP but the bias for the 45acp makes it a no go. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 That's a good idea. Have a few divisions based on size of pistol. If a Glock 19 or 23 could compete against other similar guns without having to worry about someone showing up with a G34 we might see more of them. Bug your MD to run a full bug match then. FWIW i have seen master class shooter shoot just as well with a G19 and G34...... again its all about the Indian and not the bow/arrow.... You could also have your MD set up a BUG match so you can shoot those little guns. You can do that if you don't want to be competitive, or if you are some freak that can shoot just as well with a little gun. Although I really enjoy IDPA, i have to chuckle a little at the pretense of shooting defensive or carry guns. I think alot of people would like to see a division for more realistic carry gun, bigger than BUG, but smaller than the behemoths that most people shoot at idpa matches. m&p compact, xd compact, the smaller glocks and 1911's for example. Seems to me they could all be in the same division based on size. I would even tolerate a 6-7 round limit or allowing longer mags for singlestacks or whatever would make it fair between the 1911's and the modern double-stacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 FWIW Sometimes I shoot SSR with a 686 2 1/2" barrel and I don't feel challenged by it. I'm having more fun than anyone anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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