shred Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Most experienced shooters know this, but I've had to explain it enough on the range recently that here it is again: A miss on a target costs you 15 points; -10 for the penalty, -5 for the points that aren't there. Here's an example: One target, 2A's = 5 pts + 5 pts = 10 pts One target, 1A, 1M = 5 pts -10 pts = -5 pts Difference?: 15 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 The only thing worse is Alpha-Mike-No-shoot ---- where you're subtracting another 10 points.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 And even worse than that is thinking you had a miss on a Virginia Count stage, then you throw an extra shot so you'll only be down 10 instead of 15. But then when the ROs are scoring the targets, you learn that you actually shot two A hits that touched and looked like one hole ... you then get -20 for the extra shot AND extra hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 One of my favorites is that people always complain about "D" hits. I always ask what the probem is with the D's and the common response is that a D is "only" worth 2 points (assuming major). I always correct them that a D is really worth 13 points not just 2. My logic is that you aimed for an A and missed ... the fact that you hit a D is 13 points better than the miss that you nearly got! D's are really your friends! This goes hand-in-hand with the glass being half full... Leo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 No, Rhino. The worst is when on a Virginia count stage you have a Mike, then throw an extra to make the Mike up, and in the process shoot a Mike/No Shoot. You were down -15, but now you are part of the down -35 club. If my math is correct it is -5 for the non hit, -10 for the miss, -10 for the no shoot, and -10 for the extra shot. You just can't shoot fast enough to make up for Misses, and especially so on a Virginia count stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Have you guys been watching me shoot? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 been there, done that today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Unfortunately a miss equates to 15 points down in actual stage points, however generally you can count on another 5 when stage results come down. If I have a miss on a stage, I bank on losing 20 match points. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Misses are Not waisted shots or penalties in practical shooting they are COVERFIRE this should be amended in the uspsa rule as plus one point not minus ten THANK YOU THANK YOU VERY MUCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Any hit on a No-Shoot after the first shot is fired on a stage shouldn't count. Anyone standing up should have hit the deck unless they were a combatant. Heck even the combatants should have hit the deck unless they have a wish to be perforated. Therefore, henceforth, all NS hits count as double bonus because you were sharp enough to realize that that white target was really a brown target in disguise that was going to get you when you ran past it. Now returning to reality Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 The Virginia Count Miss + Extra Shot + Mike/No-shoot situation is two bad shots. So (35 points)/(2 bad shots) = 17.5 points per bad shot vs. just a straight Mike/No-shoot which is a full 25 points per bad shot. Therefore the Mike/No-shoot is still king of the OH-SH*T's in my book. Maximum "penalty density" LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Im with jim!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Ellis Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 -At the risk of thread drift- Here's one for you. Four string stage. T1-T4 at R/H side of barricade. T1-T4 again through port. T5-T8 through another port. T9-T12 from a box. 160 pts. Did T1-T4 fine. Totally brainlocked and forgot to go to T1-T4 again through the port. Hit T5-T12. On HDH the RO stated, "You know you forgot the first port." Poopy. Zeroed this one. The discussion started. Was the second pass through T1-T4 a Failure to Engage (FTE) or a procedural? We ended up deciding that it wasn't an FTE as T1-T4 had been engaged on the first string but that there were 8 procedurals + 8 misses. 8 misses x 15=120. 8 procedurals x 10 = 80. 120 + 80 = 200. Correctly scored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 We ended up deciding that it wasn't an FTE as T1-T4 had been engaged on the first string but that there were 8 procedurals + 8 misses. 8 misses x 15=120. 8 procedurals x 10 = 80. 120 + 80 = 200.Correctly scored? I'm confused. What were the 8 procedurals for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Ellis Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 I'm confused. What were the 8 procedurals for? My guess USPSA 10.1.4.3 is what was applied. I didn't 'Engage T1-T4 with 2 shots each through port' as stated in the stage briefing. 8 shots - 8 penalties. However it can equally be argued that only one or no procedurals should have been assessed depending on which part of the rules are quoted. My belief is that since no advantage was gained my logging 8 Mikes that adding salt to the wound by adding procedurals was not necessary. My question is, if I run into this again, are procedurals proper in this instance? Luckily this stage occured on a Wednesday night "unsanctioned practice loose rules run-what-ya-brung" match. We use it as a learning tool for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Hank, I think you got screwed. I don't have my new rule book yet but since you engaged T1-T4 initially there should not be any FTE penalties from the port but since you did not follow the stage procedure I would only give you 1 procedural penalty because you did not gain an advantage by not shooting through the port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 one good rule of thumb: No FTE if there's a hole in the target! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hank, you had better not tell me that Lloyd scored your run!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Ellis Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hank, you had better not tell me that Lloyd scored your run!! No, Lloyd didn't score that run. It was a group effort. None the less, it was a learning experience for many of us. And no harm as it was just a 'practice' match. We make mistakes. We learn from it. We move on. So, back to the question. I believe the correct answer then is 8 Mikes at 15 each = 120 + 1 procedural at 10 = 130 pts dropped for that stage. Agreed? The USPSA 2004 rulebook 10.2.2 clarifies it a bit. In a nutshell, 1 procedural unless there is a significant advantage, then 1 per shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 Sounds right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 I think it was Benny Hill who said: "D means Damn glad I didn't miss" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted May 17, 2005 Share Posted May 17, 2005 (edited) The only thing worse is Alpha-Mike-No-shoot ---- where you're subtracting another 10 points.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> A bigger ouchie is when there's two A's in the target at 10 yards and also a full-diameter no-shoot at 5 yards and the "impenetrable target rule" is invoked by the RO who yells out your penalty as if you had just crashed your car into his front porch. And one shot takes you from 2nd in class to 6th. If I could do it over I'd say "prove it" because I really don't know. Not complaining or anything... [edit for too many adjectives] Edited May 17, 2005 by caspian28r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45gunner Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Most experienced shooters know this, but I've had to explain it enough on the range recently that here it is again:A miss on a target costs you 15 points; -10 for the penalty, -5 for the points that aren't there. Here's an example: One target, 2A's = 5 pts + 5 pts = 10 pts One target, 1A, 1M = 5 pts -10 pts = -5 pts Difference?: 15 points. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for the info. I take score but never calculated points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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