List 5 things that will suck the fun out of a match

[BillChunn]

Limited to only 5!! This may take some work to weed it down to 5....

Please take this as it's intended, constructive criticism and most are targeted to local matches. The "big" matches have experienced MDs, RMs and ROs which make them really fun to shoot!!!!

1. Trying to mentor a new club member who designed a stage only to hear "That stage is illegal" from a Range Lawyer.

2. Unless age or health is an issue, everybody works on resetting the stage.

3. The squad ahead of yours doesn't bother to paint the steel when they are finished.

4. All the stages in the match are long field courses just to advertise a high round count.

5. Stages that are poorly constructed. Build the stage so it is consistent for every shooter, not so each squad has to rebuild it (without directions) when they arrive in the bay and the wind has knocked down half of the barrels and props. This will really bring a match to a screeching halt.

HH

[Bill Sahlberg]

1. Long stages that are designed for the 19 year old high school track stars.

2. Not having the scores ready in a timely basis.

3. Targets that you can't see, make the timer your enemy, not hunting around for targets to shoot.

4. AMEN Jesse! Slugs targets over 50 yards. (isn't this what a rifle is for?)

5. Having a 100 rnd Beta-Mag OK with iron sights but limiting how many rnds can be loaded in an Open shotgun :-)

[Punkin Chunker]

1. Range slugs that spend their off-stage time plopped in their folding chair and/or gassing their expertise in the background while everyone else on the stage is downrange resetting.

2. Peanut gallery lawyers that step into the dance between shooter and course/RO to point out what they see as a failing on the RO; sometimes to a level of debate, or sometimes just to Big Dog it over the RO who ran the stage.

3. Getting swept (and no DQ, 'cause, you know, he's a new shooter -- and the MD's kin).

Okay, get rid of just those three things, and I'll be happy as a clam.

[busyhawk]

OK, from both an RO and shooter standpoint:

1. Having to tell shooters/squad to reset as the RO, over and over.

2. Match staff not being able to shoot the match and then during the match squads having to reshoot because the staff didn't shoot it to proof it!

3. Under USPSA rules the staff can't shoot the match unless you are the pres of USPSA

4. Moving long distances under the clock with no targets!

5. Stages with no real options...no freeplay.

RLTW,

Busyhawk

[mudridn]

1. Match staff not being able to shoot the match and then during the match squads having to reshoot because the staff didn't shoot it to proof it!

2. Untrained or poory trained RO's (such as at Nationals)

3. Inconsistency

4. People that complain about a match but refuse to step up and help run one

5. Ill Prepared RO's

[Tyro Shooter]

1: Excesive squad reshoots

2: A-Hole stage designers (who come up with some unsafe crap just to piss of the shooters)

3: R.O.'s with absoultly no sence of humor (this can't apply to R.O. Earl or R.O Craig, as men who are willing to face a group of armed men and women in their best party skirts Kilts can laugh and smile their way thru anything.

4: Shooting a stage after dark due to #1

5: Breaking a gun during the match

[Jeff F]

1. Memory Stages/Hunting for targets in Natural type settings

2. Shooting from positions that are to high to reach. (Not everyone is over 6 foot tall)

3. 35 yard pistol targets(4-6 inch plates)

4. People that dont help set and paste

5. Unsportsman like competitors

[BigDave]

1. people who don't paste/reset steel

2. high round counts for high round count's sake

3. matches that don't flow/backups/waiting (don't run a short course right into a huge course)

4. more than two carnival props on a stage (too long to reset, score, prone to breakdown)

5. stages designed to play to the strength of the designer - challenge should be universal

[laz2011]

Lazy shooter don't help reset stage.

Shooters that take it to seriusly.

DQ.

Only Four target Stages.

Gun malfunction.

[1760yds]

1) Any DQ.

2) RO's that only come to the match to have someone to exercise authority over.

3) A squad that doesn't help reset targets

4) Shooters that take "gaming" too far.

5) Guns that don't/won't run.

[DarthMuffin]

- A stage with high value difficult targets that your average C/D level shooter can't hit, or can't hit within the time alloted, and they're such high value that you zero the stage without them (why should I even shoot the stage?).

- Inconsistent rules, especially bad with outlaw matches where rules are made up on the fly to fix bad stages or outlaw someone's creative solution, etc.

- A match that's way too heavy in one gun. It's not a rifle match with a couple of token shotgun/pistol targets so you can call it multigun.

- A serious problem slow stage. Every match has these to some level, but I'm talking one with multiple squads backed up that keeps everyone there an extra 3 hours to finish the match, makes you miss lunch, etc. If you don't catch the problems when ROs shoot the day before, then just cut your losses and either remove it from the match or cut it down (remove problem areas) and have some reshoots.

- Not at least attempting to reward power factor -- have a few longer range scoring targets, or if you're doing time-plus scoring have a HM and HM-tactical division.

Edited November 11, 2011 by DarthMuffin

[SinistralRifleman]

I'll leave this to matches in general rather than stage types/design issues

1) Long delays waiting to shoot stages; squads backed up in front of your own.

2) Scores not posted in a time efficient manner whether at the conclusion of a big match or waiting more than a couple days after a club match for them to be emailed is irritating

3) People taking club level matches too seriously/Personality conflicts with people on the squad.

4) ROs eager to assess penalties/DQs

5) Bad logistics/planning that make the match run slower.

Edited November 15, 2011 by SinistralRifleman

[Glock3422]

1-ROs with binoculars who don't see the hit, when everyone without a guide dog does.

2-Stage guns, stage guns with hair triggers, stage guns with crap triggers, stage guns with decent triggers, stage guns.

3-Not having complete, accurate results available before awards.

4-ROs who only stand and demand work.

5-Shooters who only stand and watch while others work.

[ErichF]

I've done a few matches recently, and came up with a few items myself:

1 - ROs that bitch at you for not pasting/resetting for ONE round because you had to go take a leak, even though you are usually one of the FIRST to start resetting after every shooter. I'm gonna start pissing on stages next time I get that treatment...watch where you drop your mags!

2 - Crap steel that either won't fall when shot dead center, or falls when a gentle breeze blows through. Recent match had plate rack where two or three plates fell if you hit the RACK, not a plate. Of course, that doesn't happen when YOU shoot the stage

3 - Making stupid mistakes like forgetting a paper target you saw everyone else shoot.

4 - Running out of pasters on the stage and having to run around the range taking up a collection.

5 - Folks throwing the used paster backing strips into the squad box instead of the trash barrel found on EVERY stage. Take what you use, use what you take, and throw away the backer strip, for Pete's sake!

[hrt4me]

1) .22LR stage guns

2) .357 Magnum with 22lb. trigger pocket pistol stage guns

3) 9mm Mp5 stage guns

4) 12 gauge side by side stage guns

5) All stage guns not listed above

I feel bad laughing at this because I know how much #3 cost you.

what's the story behind that?

[Jesse Tischauser]

1) .22LR stage guns

2) .357 Magnum with 22lb. trigger pocket pistol stage guns

3) 9mm Mp5 stage guns

4) 12 gauge side by side stage guns

5) All stage guns not listed above

I feel bad laughing at this because I know how much #3 cost you.

what's the story behind that?

Rustin Bernskoetter missed 2-3 shots in a three target array with a full auto MP5 prop gun at the 2011 Rocky Mountain 3 gun. Those misses cost him just enough match points on the stage to miss his first chance at a 3 gun nation shoot off. Similarly I saw my teammate Kalani laker take a miss with the awesone barrett .338 lapua prop gun at last weekeds FNH 3 Gun nation match. Thankfully Kalani shoots "Like A Boss" and it didn't effect his chances of getting into the top 16 shoot offs.

[Chuck Anderson]

3. Under USPSA rules the staff can't shoot the match unless you are the pres of USPSA

Could you back that up with the USPSA rule you're talking about? Just curious since it doesn't exist.

[maineshootah]

Using only 1 gun in a match

Not having slug targets past 50 yards

Being able to shoot an entire stage from 1 position

Having unsafe conditions go unaddressed

A hole competitors

+1

Plus the additional..

Your flight lands in Boise and your rifle, shotgun and pistol land in Denver.

[SN13]

1. "3-gun" matches where there is 300rds of Rifle, 300rds of pistol and 20rds of shotgun in the whole match. (Numbers exaggerated for effect)

2. Shotgun stages that are under 20rds.

3. Rifle stages that are over 90rds.

4. Overly complex stages that have overly complex rules of what targets can be engaged from what positions and become simon-says memory games, rather than a shooting game.

5. Ambiguous stage description that has one squad shooting one way and another squad shooting differently because the RO's aren't being consistent.

[EkuJustice]

1. Favors 1 gun(usually pistol)way more than the other guns

2. Too many targets that disappear but are not disappearing targets ie if your not quick on them you loose serious time just on those misses at 5 seconds per miss (10 on clays) a couple disappearing clays can be a big factor.

3. Stages that push the border of asking for something unsafe to happen. Had a stage here a few months ago that was 18 shotgun rounds so basically 9 to slidelock, reload it up and another 9. Last shot of the shotgun was a popper that activated a quick disappearing target that rolled. It was basically go 9, then 9 (hope your gun was only a 9 round gun and had no misses or you counted perfect) and shoot the last round and throw the gun in the barrel (no time to engage safety so that last shot had better have stuck it to slidelock)to have even a chance at getting the target

4. No water on hot days especially at larger matches. Water coolers or bottles arent that expensive and make for a much nicer match.

5. Make the match a shooting match, not a track meet with a gun. Ie dont have huge stretches to travel with nothing to do on the way.

[jwfuhrman]

- Great thread Jesse. Should be required reading for all aspiring MD's.

No joke, hence why I'm reading this thread.... It's my biggest fear to have a match I run suck.

[dchang0]

1) Scoring errors, especially widespread ones (computer's down! AAAAAGHHH!) But even scoring errors that affect just one shooter can suck, because they screw with the rankings.

2) Long waits between stages

3) Long DAYS for some squads, which causes these problems:

a) fatigue

inability to see targets at dawn or dusk or in fog/mist as well as the squads who get to shoot it during the brightest hours

c) difficulty finding time to walk the stages early in the morning before shooting starts

4) Poorly designed drop-boxes that knock the safeties off and DQ 1911 shooters by the dozen (I shoot a Glock, so this doesn't affect me, but seeing so many guys get sent home because of this is a real bummer.)

5) Stage equipment/prop failures

[MistyDesha]

Wow- there are SO MANY already mentioned! Hate the "one different gun per stage" in a 3 gun match. Hate when ppl bring up the "real life" aspect- gets me really pissed, esp cuz my friends n i love the GAME- and we have all been in the real part of a two way range.

Basically hate ppl that dont support th ROs. Ppl who argue w/ the stage design, layout, procedures, and not helping to reset the stage.

You took my 5

[MistyDesha]

Not having any targets that the majority of the shooters can shoot on the move.

Home grown flash targets that don't flash consistently.

Steel that you can't see in the woods.

Slugs targets over 50 yards.

Requiring shooters to shoot on, over, around, a port or barricade that gives taller or shorter shooters an advantage. If you make the bottom of every port/barricade angled all shooters get a support area that fits everyone.

Thank you for posting this, this gives those who design the stages and match directors something to think about. Some of the things on the list are big issues to think about. I am suprised that no one mentioned no cookies (those who were at Ozark iknow what I am talking about).

[Supermoto]

1. Late starts

2. Incorrect scoring

3. No contrast targets, small gray steel that are invisible to the naked eye, barely recognizable with a scope or black clays in a black holder on a dark berm shot as the sun goes down.

4. Getting yelled at for being in the range parking lot after dark, not 5 mins after you had just RO'ed the last shooter with a flashlight. Nothing says "Thanks for helping out" like driving off with your gear and muddy boots still on, guns bouncing around in your trunk

5. Mustaches