bigbrowndog Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Lets see!!!! I flew to UK $990.00, drove to Hungary $500.00, stayed in hotels for 5 nights $300.00, drove back to UK, $500.00, drove to Northern UK for another match $200.00, Food for the trip $500.00, ammo for the matches $200.00, entry fees $200.00.........................So I guess I'll pay a lot for a GOOD match, without a prize table. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Something that makes MG unique is what you have to take to the match. Where you can usually get it all in a range bag for a pistol match, trying to travel to MG matches with less than 3 checked bags on an airline is nearly impossible unless your willing to wear the same clothing each day and even then there is no way to take your shotgun ammo. Folks will attend more than one type of match. The outstanding response to the AR15.com match this year is proof that there is a larger market for the random draw prize table than the order of finish prize table. And at least I am convinced that we would be able to hold down the entry fees if we abolished prize tables and had sponsors pay cash since even a $2000 gun on the prize table will not buy the first target, feed an RO or pay for any of the 50 other line items a match must have. As long as the shooters have to pay all of the overhead, you are going to see match fees rise or your going to see less stages at the matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A well Earled machine Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Years ago Mike Gibson had the brilliant idea to put the prizes into black duffels – donated by Speer / ATK. You went into the room picked a bag, went out the rifle line and opened it. That’s when the fun really began we all swapped with each other and had a great time. Doug and Scott did nearly the same thing at their NWMGC in Albany last month – that was a lot of fun too. Random draw is the way to go. I do think the Setup / Tear down crews and the ROs should get a bigger chunk of the pool that what I’ve seen in the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 make a 9 hour drive, 4.5 each way, and a motel stay usually, to shoot Best of the West monthly 3 gun. no prize table. but its a good match, better than i can attend locally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Years ago Mike Gibson had the brilliant idea to put the prizes into black duffels – donated by Speer / ATK. You went into the room picked a bag, went out the rifle line and opened it. That’s when the fun really began we all swapped with each other and had a great time. Doug and Scott did nearly the same thing at their NWMGC in Albany last month – that was a lot of fun too. Random draw is the way to go. I do think the Setup / Tear down crews and the ROs should get a bigger chunk of the pool that what I’ve seen in the past few years. Most sponsors aren't at all happy with having the products they generously donate put into black bags and passed out randomly. The whole reason behind sponsorship is advertisement and product placement - the "black bag" method of prize distribution completely ignores this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger6 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 If you have a two day match, do it on Friday-Saturday. That gives everyone a full day (Sunday) to get back home. (Just like Rocky Mountain 3 Gun) At most of the BIG matches the "Pro" shooters win the top prizes. They need their own category. Ranger6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 If you have a two day match, do it on Friday-Saturday. That gives everyone a full day (Sunday) to get back home. (Just like Rocky Mountain 3 Gun) At most of the BIG matches the "Pro" shooters win the top prizes. They need their own category. Ranger6 I understand how that might be good for shooters and like anyone else I would love to have Sunday as a travel day. But if you do that your match volunteers including the ROs will travel on Wednesday, shoot on Thursday adn work Friday and Saturday and travel on Sunday which would likely equal match volunteer shortage if they have to give up 3 vacation days to work the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddox Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Prize table is not a big deal for me because I am not going to win anything. Local $50-$75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziebart Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The local match is $25 if your not a member of the range and I think it is very reasonable. I have only just started and have shot it twice. Had 5 stages on the 1st 4 on the second. Plenty of props, and targets out to 400 yds. I don't think 50-100 is out of line for a 2 day match. It is a lot of work to setup 10 stages and the crew deserves something. Not only that but if you figure travel costs in the match fees become one of the cheaper parts of your vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDPMatt Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I go to matches for the stages and the way it is run..... that means way more to me than prizes ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain C. Baer Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 The prize table could always be modest, and done randomly by a lottery. Plaques and trophies are good enough to represent final match placement results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Maybe you could have added, "fee I am willing to pay has nothing to do with prizes or not" What I dont like, entry fees being used for prizes I cant win, I'd rather see lower entry fee, A match that pays out to division winners using entry fee money, but then says, "GM's shoot free" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I like Pie , but I can get my own at the grocery store. What I like is what ever it takes to bring 5-to-10 good / top shooters to beat me. I don't like the idea of spending the night in hotel to attend an event that I have a chance to win. I like shooting against better shooters Thats worth at least $100 a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwain C. Baer Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 Maybe you could have added, "fee I am willing to pay has nothing to do with prizes or not" What I dont like, entry fees being used for prizes I cant win, I'd rather see lower entry fee, A match that pays out to division winners using entry fee money, but then says, "GM's shoot free" All good points...for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Personally I have only done the Ky state match a few times but am planning on at least one more away game next season. For me the prize table is a bonus but won't decide if I go. $100ish for a match that I go home smiling about isn't bad even if I burn vac time and the rest of the costs. I always like the t shirts be it pistol or MG matches. If I were to decide I would make a nice prize table random drawing for the staff that sacrifices a lot of time and effort to put on a good match with good props. The staff deserves it. Just give me a t shirt, plenty of water and some way to have lunch, free or not and I'm good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Holman Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 For me - I pay up to $75 for a 1-day match if it is well run, not too far to drive, so I can go there and back in a day. For anything 2-day, it would have to be a KILLER match otherwise I use the prize table to justify/offset the hotel expenses. Anything over $100-$150 would start getting "iffy" to me unless the match was just a head and shoulders above the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 The Western States Single Stack Classic is a great example of an outstanding match, that pays a modest cash prize to the top shooters, and does not otherwise have a prize table for the competitors. It doesn't charge a huge entry fee, and it fills up about 200 slots rather quickly. Steve and his gang of miscreants create fantastic stages at a great facility (Rio Salado). This match attracts a lot of shooters from So Cal, so folks drive about 400 miles to attend. This did not occur overnight, but took several years to get to this point. The course designers, staff, stages and the facility are what attracts the shooters. Yup, just signed up for 2012. 400 mile drive for 2 days of $100 of shooting. This has grown up to be an outstanding match, just like Area 2. So, I guess this fits my $50/day formula... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'd pay the same amount as we currently pay but I'm not gonna be able to afford to travel more than 3-5 hours and stay in hotels 2-3 nights without the payback of the prize table. I also don't like the thought of the match director pocketing $50-60k in entry fees. I don't have a problem with the folks running matches making money. They gotta get something for their efforts. But the bulk of that big entry fee with no prizes would need to go towards buying the best targets and props they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Haaaaa HHHHaaaaAAAAAAA haaaaaa haaaaaaa.... Holy crap! I haven't laughed that hard in quite a while, thanks Jesse! Pocketing 50-60k$..... sheese.... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) I'll reinforce what some here have already said. It's not financially viable for me to drive for hours, spend several nights in a hotel, plus match fees, ammo, and food in order to shoot a non-prize match where you can't recoup at least some expenses. Another thought - if I'm going to spend $600-$1000 on a match - I REALLY don't like HATE the idea of a Random Prize Table. This is a competition - the top shooters should ALWAYS walk the table first. Random draw prize tables are yet another step on the path to Socialism. JJ, you mean to tell us you aren't getting rich off RM3G?? Edited October 6, 2011 by Fullauto_Shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) Haaaaa HHHHaaaaAAAAAAA haaaaaa haaaaaaa.... Holy crap! I haven't laughed that hard in quite a while, thanks Jesse! Pocketing 50-60k$..... sheese.... jj Do the math. If you just took in $200 in match fees and had 300 shooters but didn't spend any of it on prizes or targets or whatever expenses that would be $60,000. I was assuming the OP was asking us how much $ we would be willing to pay an MD or range to buy targets, tape, and pasters or simply make a profit if the range already had all the stuff needed for a major match. If there was another point to the thread I must have missed it. Edited October 6, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) I thought the thread was about how much a match with no prizes was worth to the shooter. I could be wrong, but if match directors have an opportunity to make even half that amount of money, why are there not hundreds of matches?? Jesse, you worked High Plains, and I don't think Trapr made much, if any off that match. I mean, most of his possible profits were eaten up by the extra softballs our squad asked for?? But, seriously, IF we were able to take in that much (there are a lot more free shooters than most of you know about) but while people spend some of that money on the prize table...we gave out about $10,000 in cash and spent a bit on some of the prizes. By far, the vast majority of the match budget goes to the range for shooter's fees, (because the range needs to make money for upkeep etc) and for RO housing and food and facilities. Most matches have to rent tents and tables for sponsor areas, prize table, dinners etc. We rent the Coors Center and it ain't cheep. There are plaques/trophies (also, not cheap). Even, if somehow you had a ton of targets available at no cost, or Travis at MGM was good enough to make you a sweet deal and really support the match with way more targets than you could afford to buy, replacement nuts and bolts and parts take money. Match booklet printing fees...shirts?? RO boxes, mats for shooting from, tables for stages, water barrels for shooters, trash pick-up, sometimes fees for bringing out extra porta-potties!!! There are SOOOOOO many costs that no one even thinks about! They add up! I honestly don't think anybody's making money off this. I know many match directors that barely break even or even lose a little money to make the match come off the way they want it to! Almost all of these costs transfer to non-prize table matches. And, though 3-Gun sponsors are THE MOST GENEROUS in the WORLD!!! They are not bottomless pits of money! For me, $200 or less for a non-prize table match, but depending on if the match director liked the same kind of stages I like, I'd be willing to go higher...but, I'm not really getting much of my match fee back from the prize table anyway! Sorry about the diatribe, but I hate seeing things, even just off the cuff about match directors making tons of money off matches, when it ain't so! My little girlie feelings get hurt when people act like throwing a match is the easiest thing in the world, and want to tell me how to do it, when they're not in there, putting in the efforts themselves and just reaping the benefits and then complaining. Whoops! Ranting again!!!! I blame it on Menopause! I know that a lot of these forums are on subjects to try to help improve the sport. I know you're all good people!! I adore 3-gunners! Love you all!!! Just my $6.47!!!! Denise Edited October 7, 2011 by Benelli Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 benelli chick wrote: ...By far, the vast majority of the match budget goes to the range for shooter's fees, (because the range needs to make money for upkeep etc)... Here at Sparta, at the World Recreation and Shooting Complex, it's three dollars per shooter per day. I guess I am either spoiled or lucky. Supposedly, 100, 200, 300 and 500 yard bays are going to get built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 benelli chick wrote: ...By far, the vast majority of the match budget goes to the range for shooter's fees, (because the range needs to make money for upkeep etc)... Here at Sparta, at the World Recreation and Shooting Complex, it's three dollars per shooter per day. I guess I am either spoiled or lucky. Supposedly, 100, 200, 300 and 500 yard bays are going to get built. Yes!!! You ARE lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) I thought the thread was about how much a match with no prizes was worth to the shooter. I could be wrong, but if match directors have an opportunity to make even half that amount of money, why are there not hundreds of matches?? Jesse, you worked High Plains, and I don't think Trapr made much, if any off that match. I mean, most of his possible profits were eaten up by the extra softballs our squad asked for?? But, seriously, IF we were able to take in that much (there are a lot more free shooters than most of you know about) but while people spend some of that money on the prize table...we gave out about $10,000 in cash and spent a bit on some of the prizes. By far, the vast majority of the match budget goes to the range for shooter's fees, (because the range needs to make money for upkeep etc) and for RO housing and food and facilities. Most matches have to rent tents and tables for sponsor areas, prize table, dinners etc. We rent the Coors Center and it ain't cheep. There are plaques/trophies (also, not cheap). Even, if somehow you had a ton of targets available at no cost, or Travis at MGM was good enough to make you a sweet deal and really support the match with way more targets than you could afford to buy, replacement nuts and bolts and parts take money. Match booklet printing fees...shirts?? RO boxes, mats for shooting from, tables for stages, water barrels for shooters, trash pick-up, sometimes fees for bringing out extra porta-potties!!! There are SOOOOOO many costs that no one even thinks about! They add up! I honestly don't think anybody's making money off this. I know many match directors that barely break even or even lose a little money to make the match come off the way they want it to! Almost all of these costs transfer to non-prize table matches. And, though 3-Gun sponsors are THE MOST GENEROUS in the WORLD!!! They are not bottomless pits of money! For me, $200 or less for a non-prize table match, but depending on if the match director liked the same kind of stages I like, I'd be willing to go higher...but, I'm not really getting much of my match fee back from the prize table anyway! Sorry about the diatribe, but I hate seeing things, even just off the cuff about match directors making tons of money off matches, when it ain't so! My little girlie feelings get hurt when people act like throwing a match is the easiest thing in the world, and want to tell me how to do it, when they're not in there, putting in the efforts themselves and just reaping the benefits and then complaining. Whoops! Ranting again!!!! I blame it on Menopause! I know that a lot of these forums are on subjects to try to help improve the sport. I know you're all good people!! I adore 3-gunners! Love you all!!! Just my $6.47!!!! Denise Wow you guys sure get defensive when the all mighty dollar gets brought up! In my hypothetical response there where no prizes, RO's volunteered, the coors center was a pavilion that's been at the club for 25 years, the steel has been paid for by the $100 per shooter monthly matches that draw 100 shooters every month, the guy running the match is buying ocean front property in Aruba and the match is the best match you could ever imagine. I guess I am gonna win that bet I made with a friend that said I couldn't piss everyone on this forum off in less than 30 days. After reading reading Traprs response I forgot about the PanAm shotgun. That was very costly and there were no prizes. So if it was something extrodinary such as the first ever PanAm Shotgun I would spend whatever just to be there. Edited October 7, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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