New xdm

[Loves2Shoot]

FO and tritum sights will the first things in the cue once we can get one. This will be a better/cheaper base gun for the 6" XDM too

[Glockdirtyfour]

This gun is a big disappointment to me. I expected Springfield to create a pistol that has a obvious performance edge over the competitors. It seems this pistol is no were near the performance upgrade capabilities of a Glock34 our M&P pro in the hands of a average competitor with some (DIY) mechanical skills. For the price of sending this in to SA custom shop for trigger upgrades will come close to half a cost of another glock our m&p. Aftermarket trigger upgrade parts are ridiculously high compared to glock and m&p upgrades.

These other pistols such as glock34 and m&p Pro 9, one can adjust the trigger pull & reset with very affordable quality drop in parts, and fine tuning the trigger at fraction of a cost. These guns out of the box have significant better trigger pull and reset unlike the XDM almost 50% lighter compared to the heavy 8lb trigger on the xdm. Sights are easier to change on glocks and m&p's unlike the XDM.

I don't see how this pistol set's the bar above the others?

[Loves2Shoot]

You really like the hinge trigger of the M&P? Ok, there are cheap trigger upgrades for the XDM and more expensive ones. The sight on the XDm are no harder to swap than the M&P and you don't have to remove the rear sight to work on the fire control either. Given 80% of the XD work we do is non competition shooter market and that we work on Glocks and M&P also I disagree with most of what you posted.

Having been approached by several different people who want to manufacture a 5"+ slide for the XDM, I'm very glad SA is coming out with a factory version, as there is a demand for it and the price will be better. I like the adjustable sight, as it will be great for people who want a low profile sight good quality sight, and it won't be hard to make other sight options.

I for one think it is a winner, the only thing I'm bummed about is having to wait to by a pile of them.

[Glockdirtyfour]

Its not surprising a well known gunsmith like yourself would have different views from average consumer like me. Heck this gun means more business for you since its missing a trigger, and the aftermarket selection of upgrades are pretty small and high priced.

But what does a opinion of a average Joe like me matter?

At-least M&P has drop in trigger upgrade parts unlike the XD.

[Glockdirtyfour]

I wish Springfield could make a option of special ordering this new xdm 5.25 competition pistol to my dealer with a trigger upgrade from the SA Custom Shop and eliminate the need to pay shipping back and fourth would be a very nice. Overnight shipping in my area is very high. It's one of the reason's why diy upgrades appeal to me.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Glockdirtyfour

[Loves2Shoot]

I'm not sure how many "drop in" M&P triggers you have done, but to get a real good trigger, you have to do more than just drop in the parts, and there are price comparable trigger parts for the XD/XDM also, so your points of easier sights to change and cheaper trigger parts don't add up for the experience that I have in working on both platforms.

I'm pretty sure SA will sell a custom shop version with whatever options you could want. We sell pistols fully upgraded and Rich does also.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Loves2Shoot

[suesstech]

@Glockdirtyfour - To be honest there are a lot of things you are getting out of the box for this gun, plus we don't know the price yet. Some use the stock trigger and are successful in the games they shoot, others who end up upgrading the trigger end up either sending it to Rich, Scott, or the Springfield custom shop anyway. Worst case of all if this gun doesn't meet your needs you are not forced into buying it, there are plenty of other choices...

@TGO - Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to let folks get a chance to shoot this today. It's greatly appreciated!!

[waynes_world_45]

You really like the hinge trigger of the M&P? Ok, there are cheap trigger upgrades for the XDM and more expensive ones. The sight on the XDm are no harder to swap than the M&P and you don't have to remove the rear sight to work on the fire control either. Given 80% of the XD work we do is non competition shooter market and that we work on Glocks and M&P also I disagree with most of what you posted.

Having been approached by several different people who want to manufacture a 5"+ slide for the XDM, I'm very glad SA is coming out with a factory version, as there is a demand for it and the price will be better. I like the adjustable sight, as it will be great for people who want a low profile sight good quality sight, and it won't be hard to make other sight options.

I for one think it is a winner, the only thing I'm bummed about is having to wait to by a pile of them.

Exactly ....???????

[Avezorak]

Im a pretty average guy. I shoot an XDM 40 with a stock trigger. Its not the greatest trigger but I feel that out of the box, its miles better than the Glock and quite a bit better than the MP.

Ive shot Glocks with Vanek triggers, they are pretty dang good. But cost as much or more than a gunsmith trigger job on an XDM. I feel you can get a Glock trigger pretty good with a 3.5 connector, Ti plunger, lightened striker and a bunch of polishing. Maybe even better than a stock XDM trigger.

Ive not shot any MPs with aftermarket triggers but the Pro 9 I shot was not very impressive. A little better than a stock Glock but not by much.

Ive have shot XDMs with the drop in Springer and the PRP kits. I was not impressed. I would not spend the money to do it myself. I feel like my broke in (15k+ rounds) stock trigger was better than either of those kits.

With all that said, I haver NEVER felt a trigger on a polymer framed pistol that is as awesome as Rich's. It felt as good to me as any 1911. A little more movement but light with little takeup and reset. I have heard that Scott's is as good.

I dont think any trigger out of the 3 main poly pistols can be made awesome any cheaper than another. There are lots of options out there. I know what I like and I know what I will be shooting in Production next year. I cant wait to get one in my grubby little paws.

[waynes_world_45]

Kits are a compromise...send 'em to the the professionals

[TGO]

Daniel makes a good point, about easy upgrades to the trigger. All these guns, XD/XDm included have a multitude of upgrade parts available. Like he said, you can drop in a few parts that cost roughly the same price for each of these and get improvement. But they do not all respond the same to those modifications. I'm not about to go out and tell you not to buy an M&P Pro or G34. These are great guns, the best their manufacturers offer. If you love them, then go on with your bad self! That's fine. Some of us are glad to finally get a Polymer pistol from Springfield designed more for the competitor than anything before offered.

If you step back and look at all this speculation, no one but the folks at the range today, the factory and a few writers and rep groups have even held this new XDm. And none of us know what it's going to cost. I believe the sights alone are going to be worth the price increase. If you are a dyed in the wool XDm, Glock or M&P fan, and you want to find something you don't like about the others, then of course you are going to. I have ALL of these models and know the strengths and weaknesses of each and can tell you without a doubt, all need trigger improvements to bring them to the ultimate performance level most competitors would require. So the trigger thing is becoming a dead horse. If you like the gun then great, if not O.K. too! The point of this gun is to give the competitor who wants to shoot a polymer pistol in many types of practical competition, or the casual or professional shooter a platform which will allow them to perform better.

I'm not trying to tell anyone their religion is bad. But if you look at what has been offered here, it's pretty cool. Again, not trying to make anyone mad, but this gun will perform, with that ominous trigger tuning, more like a custom 1911 than any polymer pistol. If that appeals to you, well then enjoy. Is it going to be cheap? depends on what that means. If I can get a pistol capable of winning the Nationals, then the price is immaterial. It's what I have been waiting for.

Rob

[Glockdirtyfour]

It would have been nice if it had been made a little lighter or shorter than the 4.5's for bragging rights, but in reality I'm going to want either tuned to perfection anyway. That's why I'm so happy!

With the other comparable polymer pistols starting off at the 4.5 range it really puts the xdm trigger behind in performance out the box. Also not everyone can afford to have the trigger tuned to perfection by custom shop our expert smith.

[waynes_world_45]

Pull weight is the least of my concerns......reset, and take up are far more important to me

[Carmoney]

I'm sure the new 5.25 XDM is very nice, but do you really think it can match the performance of this polymer piece?

[TGO]

There are factors here at play that may mean more than just the weight, but this may be interesting to you.

None of them are starting in the 4.5 lb range. When measured on my digital trigger scale, they are all too heavy for me! This is the results of measuring them with the scale rod centered on the trigger and letting it roll to wherever it goes when it clicks. The problem here is perception. A real light XDm trigger like the highly tuned one on my 5.25 will not lift 3 lbs. One unfired G34 just weighed 5lbs. 15 ozs. The g35 Dave Sevigney fixed up to be just like his production 34 weighs 4lbs. 8 ozs. The other g34 I just won at Bianchi came in at 6 lbs 1 ozs. This is lighter than the stock 5.25 I just weighed at 6lbs 15ozs. Yes stock to stock the XDm was heavier, but all are too heavy in my opinion. That we probably all agree on. An interesting note is the way they stack and break. Compared to stock, the hot rodded 5.25 trigger is really clean for this type of mechanism, not stacking and moving much before the snap. The tricked out g35 was longer in it's movement, but much lighter and more predictable than the unmodified glocks.

I know from experience that a set of powder river precision springs and sear make the stock XDm about 5 pounds and much cleaner than stock. That would compare with the stuff Dave put in my G35. I do have an XDm I have messed with extensively for the last couple years and it weighs 2lbs 9 ozs time and time again and breaks with the same clean feel of a good 1911 trigger, also with very short movement. It has worked perfectly for years and 10's of thousands of rounds, but has many, many of my hours of time in it. Not sure it is enough better than the 3 lb on the 5.25! It's nice to show off and brag about, but not really needed. I consider it the exception.

Length of movement and crispness can all be improved, but it is in this area that a tricked out Xdm is superior. But, I would also say that any of them with proper work will be good enough to compete with. Hell, Dave kicked my ass in L10 nationals with a gun pretty much like my g35! And last year at Steel Challenge, BJ Norris beat me like a gong with his M&P, so they are all going to be better when tuned. I'm just saying that it is no real trick to get a light, clean reliable XDm trigger job.

Yes I wish it was that way stock, but It it is still a fantastic gun. If you ever get to shoot one, I hope you'll like it as much as I do. Doesn't mean you gotta go out and get one, but it would be a nice companion to that G34! They can be friends and be different1

Rob

[Neomet]

Never gave a darn what the out of the box trigger on a competition gun has been. I don't own a single competition gun that has not had the trigger worked on by a smith. My sole question is if it is a competitive trigger after it has been tuned. This includes Open, Limited, Production, Single Stacks, Revos, XDs, 1911s, 2011, S&Ws, and CZs.

[TGO]

Mike, I don't know what that is, but I gotta have one! It looks like we can get rid of all these other pos's at last.

Rob

[Carmoney]

Here's a quick video on custom Hi-Point modifications that is pretty instructive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us7mKJNlm8Y

[waynes_world_45]

Too funny

[Loves2Shoot]

Rob, if you were referring to my comments it's Scott I know it is hot down there in the sun burning thousands of rounds

Since we are already a bit far afield, I'll throw this out there.

Having done several thousand trigger jobs in our shop and fielding the associated phone calls and e-mails and getting that feedback, I think that putting a scale on a trigger and pulling it to measure it only tells a part of the story on the true pull weight and feel. Triggers like the XDm that are a lever trigger versus a push type trigger in the 1911 will measure out differently because of mechanical advantage. I don't have fat fingers and I pull the trigger on a XDm from the tip of the trigger, so I gain 1-1.75 pounds of mechanical advantage over pulling it in the top to center of the trigger. So take the really curved trigger on a CZ75 and a straight trigger on the Glock and you will have different result in scale weight versus actual weight. The size and shape of your finger can also affect how you can place your finger on the trigger and the real weight it will take to break the shot.

Our biggest request with the XDm is to "make it more like my 1911" and that can be done, and I'm thankful so, because it affords me the chance to do what I love for a living and helped us expand into the other parts of our business. Like stated above the Glock and other polymer platforms can be shot very well, and it is just a matter of technique changes. when I shoot a Glock, I roll my shoulders forward and shoot it like a revolver and it works just fine. Since I prefer the 1911 (having the most ground work on that platform) I like that I can prep the trigger with the XDm because it make me feel better about my shot calling. It dose not hurt that whoever they used as a hand model much have similar hand to me, because the fit is perfect for my hand size.

I am very thankful that Springfield puts out such consistent, reliable, quality XDm products. Yes, we'll see a few of this new model through the shop, but I don't let that form my opinions on whether or not I like a product. The good thing about today's pistol market is that there are a lot of good guns out there, and I'm grateful everyday that people pay me to take a good gun and make it better.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Loves2Shoot

[1911vm]

Mike, I don't know what that is, but I gotta have one! It looks like we can get rid of all these other pos's at last.

Rob

So Rob I have a serious question. I have a XD Tactical 5in. it has a bar-sto barrel, a very crisp 3.5 lb trigger (it was lighter but I used at the B-cup and needed to lift the 3.5 NRA weight.) with very short reset. Thanks to the smiths on this forum. Extremely accurate. Dawson FO front and adjustable R. How would I benefit from the new 5.25? I am sure it is not .25 of sight radios. So what is it? Do not get me wrong it looks very nice and if I had extra money I would be all over it. But for me I would need to sell something to get it. Thanks for all the help. And I only wish I lived in Arizona just for this weekend LOL.

[jhshooter]

From the xd forum: CAbelas has it for $1399.

Thats a bit much. I know Cabelas is always a little high but thats gonna make it a little less appealing, for me at least...

I agree ^^ I don't think 3/4" of barrel and a FO front sight is worth an extra 600 bucks, I might be more interested if they sold the slide and barrel separate, so that I could put it atop my XDm...

[Iggy42]

I have to admit I hope they offer this in .40 S&W in the near future. I can see Rich or Scott making some nice Limited guns with these.

Course I am still smarting over my EAA Limited collecting dust since I can't afford to pick up the rest of what I need to break into Limited.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Iggy42

[TGO]

Sorry Scott, I'm geetting old an senile!,

You make excellent points on all counts and are correct as usual on the weighing of the trigger. Which is why I always put it in the middle and just let it roll, instead of trying to get it to sit on the point and get a low number to brag about. The XDm I used for production and Steel Challenge when weighed on the tip is about 2 lbs, maybe a little less, but I don't consider that a valid measurement technique. BTW, If you shoot XDM or XD pistols you better get to know Scott Springer. He's a nice guy, which I can over look but also has vast experience and knowledge on these guns.

As for using the 5.25 for the Bianchi cup, I also shot a XD Tactical modified in exactly the same manor as what was described in the previous post. Same sights, barrel and trigger weight. The 5.25 is the length it is because of NRA action pistol rules. Yes, I want that extra .25 inch sight radius increase, 5.35 is the legal limit. Will that make the difference over the 5 in. you have? no. but the longer frame of the XDm allows me to get the magazine basepad on the ground for prone, making it both faster and steadier. It also holds the gun up higher to make it easier to see the sights at the closer distances. That is why I stood at everything but 50 on the practical and 25 on the plates. That will be a bigger difference than the sight radius difference. My only terrible score this year was at 50 prone as Istruggle to get the gun steady, since only my fat hand hits the ground. XDm frame solves that.

I used the Xd also because the Barrels in the stock xd, even when refitted, wouldn't shoot light bullets well enough. The barsto solved that problem.Now I'm going to want one for my 5.25. 147's shoot pretty good but I don't want to deal with the increased lead they cause on the mover. The sights on the 5.25 are also way better than the sights we used on the XD's this year. Much of the 5.25 is based on optimizing it for the Bianchi Cup production class. We are just going to have to get those barrels made.

For all the other matches, the stock barrel is excellent.

Now as far as the making the XDm like a 1911, that is what we are doing here with the whole Competition series concept. The development and tunability that exists for 1911 is what has made it the preferred platform to modify into something special. I think the XDm can go down the same road. The 5.25 is just giving you much more to start with.

Rob

[TGO]

BTW, the price thing. There never was a 5.25 at a Cabella's for $1400.00! Just to be clear, the 5.25 is not going to cost $600.00 more than a 4.5 XDm. I'm guessing more like the price of an adjustable sight install on a fixed sight XDm.

Rob