Things I've Learned Shooting Open Division for the Last Four Weeks

[Mitch Harrington]

Due to an eye injury, I made the move to Open class division much faster than I had ever intended. I thought I would list a few things I've learned during the last four weeks as I made the transition from Limited to Open.

1. Shooting Open is EXPENSIVE in comparison to Limited. In Limited class division, I shot lead bullets with WST powder. With Open, I shoot jacketed bullets with TWICE the amount of powder at almost twice the cost (VV 3n38).

2. .38 Super Comp brass is hard to find sometimes and you should purchase more than you really think you will need. A GOOD day is recovering 70% of my spent brass.

3. Shooting an Open gun is like playing a video game. It's fast and fun!!

4. Open guns are not near as easy as some guys make it look. The comment "If I had an optic on my gun, I could shoot that fast also" now doesn't seem near as true.

5. I look really stupid doing the C-More shuffle.

6. Having a fellow shooter pull you aside and ask you "You don't know what the hell you are doing with that Open gun do ya?" is actually constructive criticism. Good advice typically follows. Thanks Rob!

7. Instead of doing the C-More shuffle, merely raise the muzzle of the gun a little bit and the dot magically appears!

8. Shooting an Open gun is like playing a video game. It's fast and fun!! It bears repeating!

9. Picking up brass sucks (I leave my .40 laying on the ground at matches), but having great squadmates/friends help you pick it up makes it MUCH better.

10. Dry firing 15 minutes a day for four weeks helps the transition tremendously!

11. Even though Starline shows .38sc brass backordered for at least a month, go ahead and place your order! The longest it's taken to ship is a week.

12. After adjusting the C-More, tightening the set screw to the point you crack the body of the C-More makes for a long day at the next Steel Challenge match. Snug is good enough!

Anybody else have any "revelations" after dabbling with Open class division?

Edited April 21, 2011 by Mitch Harrington

[Joe4d]

Just one,, There's no such thing as Open class. There's A,B,C,D M and GM but no Open Class.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Joe4d

[Mitch Harrington]

Just one,, There's no such thing as Open class. There's A,B,C,D M and GM but no Open Class.

Wow! Please forgive me! I meant Open DIVISION!

Perhaps we can find something a bit more constructive to help someone make the transition from Limited DIVISION to Open DIVISION (emphasis added for Joe4d).

Edited April 21, 2011 by Mitch Harrington

[blaster113]

I thought the same thing with Open. Erroneously thought that all I had to do was pick up the gun and I would automatically get bad ass scores. Ahhhh, not true in the slightest. Gotta aim (occasionally )One thing Open has done for me is get faster on the trigger. To be competitive in Open you gotta be fast on the trigger. When I first started playing with my Open gun guys would remark that I shot it like a Limited gun. So I started pushing the speed. A 90 degree C more helps me pick up the dot real fast since I mainly shoot Limited.

Open is sure as hell fun. Its like race cars; fast, loud and expensive but fun. I also use Vit 3N38, not cheap but clean and soft. Bullets are cheaper by the case too. MG's case price breaks down to about $82 per 1k.

[Torogi]

4. Open guns are not near as easy as some guys make it look. The comment "If I had an optic on my gun, I could shoot that fast also" now doesn't seem near as true.

Very true. I shot limited prior to open and the first time i shot it, I couldn't believe how anyone can shoot that thing so fast.. after a few months.. i know why keep dry firing!!

[ncboiler]

Great points! I also made the switch to Open this year and agree it's so much fun, but not as easy as it looks.

[THM7]

I started shooting "Open" maybe 18 mo ago and just recently picked up my limited gun again. Two very different types of shooting...I started with 9mm and the 90' mount. I could not be happier with the choice....brass is never a issue. Many good points were made....put a piece of teflon type on your Cmore locking screws and tighten till you feel resistence. No more cracked body's and loss of zero. Oh, and I think shooting limited along with Open, really helps the Open shooting.

[CocoBolo]

I adopted the Quinn mount after 6 months of failure to master the dot. After I switched I learned the secret, "Don't short arm the gun". But I'll never switch back.

When you switch from Limited to Open the first thing that happens is your scores go down. The reason for this is that you have to be 10% faster in open to get the same % on a classifier.

Most shooters under estimate the affect of the big noise and the faster and snappier reaction of the gun. Sometimes I miss the soft sweet pulse of my Edge.

Unlike your limited gun, that you can stuff about any load into and it still hits without sight adjustment, any change of the load in an open gun can move your point of impact several inches at 15 yards.

Your will run short of powder storage space and have a whole bunch of partially full powder bottles you have tried trying to find the magic, which you will never use since they didn't work, but you won't let them go.

It will take a little time but you will soon learn that mag springs have a limited life, the springs in you big stick won't last for years.

Recoil spings also have a much shorter life behind a compensator.

If you have a shorty you will know where to find the lens whipes in Walmart.

You will own one or more tubes of locktite and carry a collection of screws, batteries, and allen wrenches in your bag. You will learn to check all the screws in the gun before every match. I've seen mounts and C'mores fall off in matches. Check the screws that hold the C-more to the mount also.

Any time you pick up your old iron sight gun and try to shoot a match you will shoot it as fast as the open gun, however you will fail to focus on the front sight before breaking the shot and miss a lot.

If you are shooting 38S or SC you will start marking your brass by either spraying them with Dykem or using a marker in an attempt to make them more visible. You no longer want to shoot on a nice grass covered range, the hardest place to find your brass.

If you paint your 9 major brass with red dykem and leave it lay all the 38 Super guys will be mad at you, they bent over picked it up and yuk its a 9 mm.

Ok I had fun telling it like it is!

Edited April 22, 2011 by CocoBolo

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: What I have learned over a year and a half is I never stop playing with loads, comps etc. I also have learned that one open pistol is never enough I shoot 9mm so I don't worry too much about lost brass but still like to get some of it back Lastly is that a flat shooting open pistol is just soooooo much fun Thanks, Eric

[flack jacket]

1. 100% focus on target and where you want to place your shot.

2. "Unlock" your eyes and keep them moving to the next shot. (Reduces tunnel vision by looking through the glass)

3. Practice your index so where you point, the dot WILL appear

4. I use a 90 Degree mount to make that transition between Iron/Dot "easier" (I shoot production and Open)

Hope it helps!

[A38337]

I prefer open over limited.

Instead of trying to find the perfect open load, I went with the recommendation of my gunsmith.

For me, Open costs less to shoot than Limited: 9mm JHPs or CMJs are cheaper than 40 CMJs. 9mm brass is cheaper than .40. Primer is the same. I use Silhouette. Doesn't cost as much as Vihta.

Open has made me a better and faster limited shooter.

The most frustrating thing about open was losing the dot. After taking a class from Matt Burkett, and doing a bunch of practice, I made major improvements in this.

YMMV

[Anopsis]

I've really been itching to try Open. I shoot every other division, but have never tried this one. A friend has offered to let me use his .38Sup open gun but I have to admit, I'm a bit intimidated...

[calishootr]

its not plug and play...those that make it look easy have paid their dues either by shipping non working guns back and forth to their 'smiths and or banging their collective heads against their reloading presses to get the 'right' loads

been there done that, got a tattered t-shirt to prove it

[carlosa]

Just one,, There's no such thing as Open class. There's A,B,C,D M and GM but no Open Class.

Wow! Please forgive me! I meant Open DIVISION!

Perhaps we can find something a bit more constructive to help someone make the transition from Limited DIVISION to Open DIVISION (emphasis added for Joe4d).

lol i think they get a dollar every time they get to use that line.. i don't think folks realize how snobby that auto-response sounds when it doesn't follow up with any other text relevant to the context of the thread.. maybe if we mock them enough they'll cut it out

hilarious..

[CocoBolo]

Hello: What I have learned over a year and a half is I never stop playing with loads, comps etc. I also have learned that one open pistol is never enough I shoot 9mm so I don't worry too much about lost brass but still like to get some of it back Lastly is that a flat shooting open pistol is just soooooo much fun Thanks, Eric

Hello Eric, you are on the same path I went down last year. The trip was lots of fun like all trips it was a bit expensive. After I learned everything I could I had a new gun built based on my design, since then I have not had a single thought about changing a thing. I also lost my addiction for looking at the Classifieds for Open guns. There is only one 9 major powder I have not tried 3N38, I'm sure one day my hand will involuntarily grab one off the shelf and I'll load some up and try it. When you get it right and you let someone shoot your gun and load they always say that's cheating no way that is major!

PS IMHO Silhouette, HS6, and AutoComp any of the 3 works just fine in a good 9 Major gun, but I prefer Silhouette. 38SC I use AA#7.

Edited April 22, 2011 by CocoBolo

[Flexmoney]

Not always, but often...when I see somebody get a new open blaster I figure they will be half-focused (or more) on the gun/gear/ammo/mags for the next 6months to a year...and that focus takes away from their shooting focus.

[jkatz44]

Not always, but often...when I see somebody get a new open blaster I figure they will be half-focused (or more) on the gun/gear/ammo/mags for the next 6months to a year...and that focus takes away from their shooting focus.

I agree...

I see a lot of people on this forum that are trying to build up the "perfect" reload for months and months. My philosphy is just pick one and start shooting. I am glad that my gun was build from a very good gunsmith so I dont have to worry about my gear. I discovered a load and stuck with it from the beginning. just my .02.

[sfinney]

Dry fire does help with the "c-more shuffle" as you call it.... burn in that index.

In the mean time, on stages that allow Comstock, as you present the gun to the target, just squeeze one off in the direction of the target, and the dot will magically appear.

[Mitch Harrington]

Not always, but often...when I see somebody get a new open blaster I figure they will be half-focused (or more) on the gun/gear/ammo/mags for the next 6months to a year...and that focus takes away from their shooting focus.

I've been really lucky so far. I bought a used gun that had some difficulties due to loads. I talked to a couple of open DIVISION buddies that got me squared away with a good load. No problems since that weren't shooter induced. It's run perfectly the last three matches. Knock on wood.

[Mitch Harrington]

Not always, but often...when I see somebody get a new open blaster I figure they will be half-focused (or more) on the gun/gear/ammo/mags for the next 6months to a year...and that focus takes away from their shooting focus.

I agree...

I see a lot of people on this forum that are trying to build up the "perfect" reload for months and months. My philosphy is just pick one and start shooting. I am glad that my gun was build from a very good gunsmith so I dont have to worry about my gear. I discovered a load and stuck with it from the beginning. just my .02.

ABSOLUTELY! I just had this convo with a shooting buddy that is a tinkerer. He's always tinkering with his gun. Always tinkering with a different load/powder. It costs him greatly. I got a winner right out of the starting gate with my load by going to guys that know what they are doing. No need to fix what ain't broke!

[Mitch Harrington]

A previous post made me realize I forgot to add #13.

13. Loctite is your friend. Not using it on mount and C-More mount bolts can cause the rear bolt to come loose which greatly changes the POI.

Fortunately, it happened with only one stage to go and it was an all steel stage. I looked pretty silly shooting across the first plate til I found out where the gun was shooting (6" to the right). One-for-one after the first seven rounds and good enough for a 2nd overall finish at our club match.

[Supermoto]

The key to open is bouncing the dot off the target. Know your dot is where you needed it to be, if you take time to confirm, then you are shooting to slow

Finding the dot is easy when dry firing standing relaxed, make sure your index is spot on in any position.

Find a load that makes major and is accurate. Stick with it, there is no perfect load and no truly flat shooting gun, when the buzzer goes off, you aren't going to notice anyways. spend your time practicing your shooting skills not your reloading skill.

Your gun must run 100%, If it doesn't, get one that does.

I have gone the other way, after 4 years of nothing but Open, I'm going to L-10, and it feels so slow

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Part of the fun shooting open is playing around with different combonations of parts. At least for me it is. After all shooting a match is like drag racing with very little track time compared to prep time. I have been amazed how much difference powder charge and type can be on an open pistol. You can actually make the pistol shoot softer and flatter with more powder sometimes I am using just 3 powders and have from the start. My favorites are HS-6, Silhouette and 3N37. Once the 3N37 is used up I will not buy anymore of it. I have not tried autocomp yet and I may not since I like the others just fine. Lastly finding the right Open pistol for you is important. I have shot quite a few open pistols and some just plan hurt to shoot them for me. It was like getting punched between the eyes with a knuckle. Thanks, Eric

[BMartens]

Load development is important but so is shooting and learning about your gun and how it shoots. If you are brand new to open pick a working load and shoot, shoot, shoot. You just can't fine tune a load until you are familiar and comfortable with the gun, especially while you are working hard to develop that index and find the dot!

Took me a couple thousand rounds to get comfortable and then I could dig in to working loads and bullets to find the right one. Once you find the right load lock it down and shoot. Constantly looking for something a little better will not pay off as much as a few thousand rounds downrange in match competition and dedicated practice.

In my gun Silhouette and 115 JHP Zeros are like magic!

Now, back to working on that weak hand index !!

[Foxbat]

Regarding making the switch from Limited to Open - depends on your situation and your eyes. My score went up immediately and noticeably, as my aging eyes began to struggle with the iron sights. To me it was more the elimination of a major obstacle that helped, and getting used to a new gun was relatively easy. I also did it between the seasons...

On loads - agree with those who say select a ***reasonable*** one and just shoot it more. You will know the reasonable one once you hit it, and further search might not be productive.

One other thing - open guns might look similar, almost identical, but in fact, but they often feel totally different in the hand. My first one was wrong for me, I found that out quickly by getting another one... that one is still one of the most comfortable for me to shoot... unfortunately you really must try several guns to know what your hands like.

Caliber-wise... I have just made the transition from 38 SC to 9mm, and that one is addictive... so I think I am converting some of my older guns to it too.

And yes... fast and loud is fun!