Just Starting and Really Bad

[Crazy Scientist]

I've done my first match and it went well shall we say poorly. Its was an IDPA and one of the guys there said they needed a calculator to figure my score (IDPA). While I did enjoy it, I am really really bad at shooting (accuracy wise). When I go to the range I have trouble pulling my shots low and left at times even at very short distance. I've read around and asked a few questions, but right now I am suffering info overload--I can't figure out if I just need more practice, actual training, and if there is something horribly wrong with how I'm shooting.

Right now I can't put 5 shots on a 6" target at 7 yards. I'm on the paper, but not always on target. (I did actually beat a few people accuracy wise on my last 2 stages of the match, but I was slow. Not worried about time at this point. Rather hit what I aim at)

[Kevin G.]

From another new shooter....dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

Concentrate on keeping the sights still until the hammer or striker has fallen. When you go back to the range for live fire, start out with slow fire groups. Concentrate on seeing and executing the same thing you did while dry firing. There is a good chance you are closing your eyes when the gun fires, I did for a long time. Open them wide and intentionally keep them open.

Doing these few things I was able to correct my tendency to push shots low left and keeping my eyes open helped alot.

Good luck with your practice.

[Sarge]

Welcome to the forums!

Low and left points to trigger control probably. Which gun are you shooting? Even though it is easier said than done in my case you have to get your hits first. Then the speed will come as you progress. If you shoot all A's you can score pretty well and still be pretty slow.

[open17]

Work on the fundamentals. Grip, trigger pull, stance. If you are unsure of what's the best way, read here until your eyes bleed, buy Brians book, Get some DVD's, take a class or

just get some help from the best shooter you meet. THEN dry fire, dry fire, dry fire.

Work out some live fire drills to address your weaknesses. Set up a camera and video

your efforts. I've seen a LOT of things where I wondered "WTF was I thinking" on videos!!

SLOW DOWN. Get your hits---the speed comes with time.

Be safe, shoot accurately, and HAVE FUN. If there is a timer and a scoresheet,

IT'S A GAME.

[Matt P.]

I would say depending on where you are, seek professional training before bad habits develop or you lose interest.

Where are you and maybe someone from here can point you in the direction of a good person to train with.

I think it is too hard to teach through a forum.

[raz-0]

I've done my first match and it went well shall we say poorly. Its was an IDPA and one of the guys there said they needed a calculator to figure my score (IDPA). While I did enjoy it, I am really really bad at shooting (accuracy wise). When I go to the range I have trouble pulling my shots low and left at times even at very short distance. I've read around and asked a few questions, but right now I am suffering info overload--I can't figure out if I just need more practice, actual training, and if there is something horribly wrong with how I'm shooting.

Right now I can't put 5 shots on a 6" target at 7 yards. I'm on the paper, but not always on target. (I did actually beat a few people accuracy wise on my last 2 stages of the match, but I was slow. Not worried about time at this point. Rather hit what I aim at)

IF you don't know what you are doing wrong, or how to do it right, and you are missing that bad while having the common low left problem of a lot of new shooters, you might want to get some one on one help. Your issues are probably a matter of 30 minutes to diagnose and sort you out with what you need to be doing to the point you will be shooting a lot better. Then you just have to practice to make sure it all sticks.

Edited December 6, 2010 by raz-0

[Neomet]

Low and left sounds like a flinch. A good dril for this is to buy some snap caps (dummy rounds) and mix them into your magazine. If you are flinching you will see the sight jerk down out of view when you pull the trigger on the dud round. Practice shooting with the snap caps mixed in the magazine. (You have to be sure you don't know where they are in the mag) and it will help correct the flinch. Don't shoot for speed at all at first. Just repeatable quality shots.

[Crazy Scientist]

Ok, so then next is good instruction in Dallas, TX area. (And I appreciate all the advice, since I am self trained I can't go ask my dad or brothers as none of them shoot and I haven't quite hooked up with the shooting community in the area).

I was shooting a Colt 1991A1 but i suffered some severe hammer bite (hey it got me out of the house and I had a holster/magazines for it) and found I had trouble seeing the sights at the indoor range.

I have since aquired a holster and extra magazines for my Beretta 96 which I plan to switch to shooting full time.

Oddly enough I can shoot a S&W 629 straight as an arrow on DA or SA even with full magnum rounds (It isn't IDPA legal as it is 5 inch barrel). Semi-autos just give me fits though.

[CocoBolo]

It sound like your coming down on the trigger like Hoss Cartright on a bed bug. Dry fire. Ok a picture is worth a thousand words so just to to my sight http://www.sashooter.com there is a like to some Saul Kirsch video's and they are pretty good instruction. Welcome to the forum, and we all started out the same way. Three of us started out 3 years ago we called ourselves the we suck team, and we were bad, we have gotten good over time and lots and lots of shooting. Grip, stance + trigger control these are the basics you need to work on.

[Dwight Stearns]

It's good that others are suggesting dry fire but none have talked about how to dry fire and the technique of the trigger press. I like to teach a three step trigger pull when shooting in single action mode or safe action (ie. Glock, M&P, XD etc.) mode. step 1: "Find the sear" by bringing the trigger back till all the take-up is eliminated and stop (or hesitate) at this point. Step 2: confirm your sight picture and while holding that sight picture, Step 3: press the trigger straight to the rear. The speed of the trigger press should be dependant upon the difficulty of the shot.

Resist the urge to punch the trigger when you see that good sight picture. I know you are trying to go as fast as possible but the only thing worse than a fast miss is a slow miss.

When you shoot in double action as in your Baretta first shot, Steps 2 and 3 melt together in into a constant roll of the trigger and hammer. The trigger is pressed in a manner where the hammer moves back in a smooth arc till it is released by the sear.

One of the biggest mistakes newer shooters make is trying to fire the gun as soon as their finger touches the trigger. Resist that urge, find the sear and stop, confirm the sight picture, press the trigger.

As you get better (and faster) those three steps become faster till they almost melt into one step.

Good luck, good shooting and welcome

Dwight Stearns

[G-ManBart]

I copied this from another thread that I'll include the link to below. It's about pre-ignition push/anticipation (what most folks call a flinch)....the dreaded low, left for right handed shooters. I spend probably 90% of my time instructing, helping people fix this.

Pre-ignition push correction:

First off, I’ll say that different things are going to work for different people, so what I suggest may or may not help, but it’s worth exploring. I can say that some variation or combination of these has always worked when I’ve had someone who really wanted to get better. Further, I'm certainly no Benos, or other amazing shooter, so take this for what it's worth, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last week at Area-5

Whenever possible, if I’m helping someone with a pre-ignition push, I like to have them shoot a .22lr. I normally work with folks who are already at the range and may have just shot poorly on a qualification course. In other words, they’re warmed up and doing whatever it is that’s causing the problem by the time we talk. If I’m going to work with someone at the start of the day I’ll let them shoot a bit to show me the problem. At that point I’ll hand them a .22 and, if possible, have them shoot a group off a rest. Normally the very first shot will be a pre-ignition push, that’s really obvious, and they’ll say something like “oh, that’s what I’m doing wrong”. Essentially, that’s the first time they’ve ever called a shot. It didn’t go where they wanted it to, but at least they know where it went. They may have been “flinching” for years and simply didn’t know what it looked like. After that I’ll let them shoot a couple of magazines (still with the .22) to get comfortable and maybe have them shoot a freestyle group or two from 25yds so they see it’s actually easy to keep all their hits inside something the size or our A-zone if you don’t have bad habits. At that point I’ll have them go back to their normal gun, and start with slower, controlled shots and have them work up in speed. Normally within a mag or two they’ll throw one low and left and they’ll look at me and say “I knew it”. That awareness is the key to fixing the problem….you’ve got to see it, to fix it. At the very least, at this point, they’re aware of the problem and know it when it happens.

As something of an aside, if they didn’t see it when they had the pre-ignition push with the .22, it means they’re blinking, and that’s a different problem….short answer, double plug/muff, stick with the .22 and have them think about the corners of their eyes while shooting the gun in the general vicinity of the target. Steel, or another reactive target (clay birds, etc) seems to help some folks with this as they want to see the hit so they’re less likely to blink. Indoors and loud guns (hey Open shooters!) make this worse.

Now they know what it looks like when things go wrong, and it’s time to work on making things go right…by learning to consistently call shots. I’ll have folks shoot at nothing but the backstop and have them track the front sight, i.e. don’t tell me where the shot went, tell me what the front sight did. I then like for them to shoot deliberate shots with the sights intentionally misaligned. Put a target at something like 15-20yds, and have them make the sight picture so the front sight appears to be nearly touching either side of the notch in the rear sight. Do the same with the front sight well above the top and well below the top of the rear sight…enough that you can see it’s high or low from the side. They’re usually pretty shocked that they get hits near the center of the target with the sights poorly aligned. Then I’ll have them shoot deliberate shots (start the trigger press and never stop until it breaks) while moving their hands in a circle (seems to usually be more of an oval) …imagine tracing a circle 5” in diameter around the A-zone with your front sight. Keep the hands moving as the shot breaks. Again, people are surprised how close to the center the hits are. All of this teaches the brain that if you have a decent trigger press, and even reasonably well aligned sights on the target, you’re going to get solid hits (for USPSA/IDPA type targets and distances). If you can hit the A-zone while making a 5” circle with the gun, you can certainly hit it if the gun is moving a tiny fraction of an inch in your wobble zone while holding it freestyle!

Now our shooter’s brain knows that the sights don’t have to be “perfect” to get a good hit up to a certain point. This is why a good shooter can rip off crazy fast splits on close targets. They learn that at something like 3-5yds, you only very generally need to see the sights aligned to get good hits….just a flash that everything is in sorta the right place and your brain will press the trigger for you. You will gradually learn how much you can and can not accept and still make the shot required at the moment.

This is probably the absolute most important part:

I talk about this last part, because the vast majority of people I see struggling with this problem are stopping their trigger press to get the sights lined up “just right” and then accelerating/mashing through the trigger when things look perfect (snatching the shot). Once you stop the trigger press you are starting from zero and it’s similar to simply smashing the trigger from the fully forward/reset position…not quite as bad, but close to it. When you suddenly accelerate the trigger, right before the break, it's going to push the front of the gun down and left (for a righty)....which is why that's where the bullet holes wind up! If you brain knows that the sight picture is acceptable, you can simply just press smoothly and let the hits happen even though visually the sights appear to be moving around a lot on the target.

To help with that last one, I’ll sometimes have people shoot with a target backwards “just hit the cardboard anywhere”….and since they’re not so focused on that one little spot in the center, and getting the sights perfectly aligned with it, they’ll shoot a nice group. When we teach low light we often get folks that shoot a fist-sized knot on their target and they can barely see the target…there’s a lesson in that!

There is one demonstration that I’ll do that doesn’t require a gun, and it proves that everyone is a “flincher”. I learned it from a guy in San Antonio who happened to have an Olympic Gold Medal for pistol shooting on his mantle….I may have to get someone to volunteer so we can video it and post it online. Basically, it involves me pushing on someone’s outstretched palm. I tell them I’m going to gently bump their hand…and I do that a few times until they get used to it. Then, while still talking, I miss their hand, and they about fall on their face. The next time, I tell them which time I’m going to miss and they still flinch a little. That’s what we’re dealing with when we shoot. Your body knows it’s going to get a push, and it wants to stay in balance, so it’s going to push back…you just have to make that happen after ignition and things will be great!

http://www.brianenos...dpost&p=1231945

[G-ManBart]

I like to teach a three step trigger pull when shooting in single action mode or safe action (ie. Glock, M&P, XD etc.) mode. step 1: "Find the sear" by bringing the trigger back till all the take-up is eliminated and stop (or hesitate) at this point. Step 2: confirm your sight picture and while holding that sight picture, Step 3: press the trigger straight to the rear. The speed of the trigger press should be dependant upon the difficulty of the shot.

We taught almost that exact technique for years. We stopped close to ten years ago and I'm still helping to fix all the shooters it screwed up. In fact, it's what I spend most of my time helping to fix.

Using a device that actually measures the time/distance movement of the trigger, along with glasses that video the target, cameras that video the shooter's eyes, and a couple of other sets of cameras, we've learned it simply doesn't work. Slow as you meet the resistance of the sear, and the harder the shot, the more you slow, but never stop, is what hard data has shown to be what works, and what the best shooters do...even if they don't realize it. We've seen some folks say they stopped the trigger press, but showed them that they never really did....got very slow, but it didn't stop. R,

[MarkCO]

Have to agree with the G-Man on this one. I'd say find a good instructor, but you may need some help with even that. Some of the best shooters can't teach, and some of the best teachers are teaching old or incorrect technique.

Saul Kirsch and Matt Burkett have some very good books and videos. You can usually find Burkett videos at most of the retailers that support the shooting sports. You might also pursue looking at some of the instructors who will watch video of you shooting and diagnose what you are doing. Jake Divita is one who does this and is here on Enos: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=220

I am more and more convinced that quality instruction early on is one of the best investments in yourself and your shooting.

You are NOT really bad. You are just new to practical shooting. The last place guy in most matches is usually much better than the "average" casual shooter who does not compete, so don't get down on yourself.

Welcome!

[FLSlim]

GMan-simple and clear summary, thanks. Even if the shots are falling where you want them, it is always good to get a high-quality refresher.

[gohuskers]

+1 to what everyone else said. You always need to remember why you're shooting competition: to have some fun! Put the time/score non-sense out of your head and just focus on enjoying yourself and the speed and accuracy will come from practice.

[Dwight Stearns]

I like to teach a three step trigger pull when shooting in single action mode or safe action (ie. Glock, M&P, XD etc.) mode. step 1: "Find the sear" by bringing the trigger back till all the take-up is eliminated and stop (or hesitate) at this point. Step 2: confirm your sight picture and while holding that sight picture, Step 3: press the trigger straight to the rear. The speed of the trigger press should be dependant upon the difficulty of the shot.

We taught almost that exact technique for years. We stopped close to ten years ago and I'm still helping to fix all the shooters it screwed up. In fact, it's what I spend most of my time helping to fix.

Using a device that actually measures the time/distance movement of the trigger, along with glasses that video the target, cameras that video the shooter's eyes, and a couple of other sets of cameras, we've learned it simply doesn't work. Slow as you meet the resistance of the sear, and the harder the shot, the more you slow, but never stop, is what hard data has shown to be what works, and what the best shooters do...even if they don't realize it. We've seen some folks say they stopped the trigger press, but showed them that they never really did....got very slow, but it didn't stop. R,

We must not be talking about the same technique. What I teach I picked up from Burce Piatt years ago (he still teaches it) and so far out of the literal thousands I have taught (and God only knows the number Bruce trained), to my knowledge, the number we have screwed up is zero. What you say about shooters believing they stop but in reallity don't, is probably true but I would guess we are not talking about novice shooters here. New shooters usually have the urge to punch the trigger through as soon as their finger touches the trigger, not that is always bad, but they have not fired the rounds necessary to learn the timing of the sear release and watching the sights lift before compensating for recoil. They end up anticipating the recoil which causes the pulling of the shot low and toward their weak side. What I teach allows for as the shooter becomes better, the stop or hesitation decreases till it doesn't exist on shots other than ones where extreme accuracy is necessary. When the stop or hesitation is removed as the shooter improves, we have very much like what you talk about of the slow then harder for the shot. I find that novice shooters need to work into that technique. Walk then Run.

As far as the confirmation of the sight picture, this can be done in as little as 1/30 of a second. Not for new shooters but with time and practice they will get there. That sight confirmation, along with the importance of not blinking and accellerating the mind, begins the journey of learning to call the shots. Once they are doing that, the sky is the limit.

Finally as Gohuskers said, ya gotta have fun. Hitting the target is fun.

[G-ManBart]

We must not be talking about the same technique. What I teach I picked up from Burce Piatt years ago (he still teaches it) and so far out of the literal thousands I have taught (and God only knows the number Bruce trained), to my knowledge, the number we have screwed up is zero. What you say about shooters believing they stop but in reallity don't, is probably true but I would guess we are not talking about novice shooters here. New shooters usually have the urge to punch the trigger through as soon as their finger touches the trigger, not that is always bad, but they have not fired the rounds necessary to learn the timing of the sear release and watching the sights lift before compensating for recoil. They end up anticipating the recoil which causes the pulling of the shot low and toward their weak side. What I teach allows for as the shooter becomes better, the stop or hesitation decreases till it doesn't exist on shots other than ones where extreme accuracy is necessary. When the stop or hesitation is removed as the shooter improves, we have very much like what you talk about of the slow then harder for the shot. I find that novice shooters need to work into that technique. Walk then Run.

As far as the confirmation of the sight picture, this can be done in as little as 1/30 of a second. Not for new shooters but with time and practice they will get there. That sight confirmation, along with the importance of not blinking and accellerating the mind, begins the journey of learning to call the shots. Once they are doing that, the sky is the limit.

Finally as Gohuskers said, ya gotta have fun. Hitting the target is fun.

I'm certain we're talking about the same thing, but you're adding a lot more detail now. The problem is there are two problems that can lead to the low, left. I've seen piles of data...literally piles, on struggling shooters that fight the low, left. It's one of two things happening, and again, this is actual data on a precision device that measures and graphs the movement of the trigger, not the perception of the shooters, or the observation of the instructor.

Scenario one is that they start the press, hit the sear/resistance and stop the press, try to get the sights lined up just right, then press the trigger when the sights are aligned. That invariably leads to low, left, and it's worse the faster they try to go. Many of those people were taught exactly the way you describe, and while it may not be "wrong", there's a better way....skip the whole stopping part, since you're saying that later you're going to remove that. No sense teaching what you're later going to tell them not to do. We can show them actual proof that they can hit the center of the target without ever stopping the trigger press, and that sight picture (not sight alignment) isn't anywhere near as important as a smooth trigger press, so there really isn't much need to confirm it at the last second. In fact, it's that desire to confirm it that screws up so many people.

Scenario two is the people that anticipate the recoil, and simply line up the sights, then smash through the trigger, causing the low, left. Those folks are usually blinking, and don't have any idea of where the gun was pointed when it went off. That's a different ball of wax, with problems that need to be addressed before you even can consider worrying about trigger press technique, and sight alignment/sight picture.

Yeah, I know, you're not going to believe it....that's no different than any of the experts that have been on the system. I promise, if you come to MI, I'll set up the system and let you see for yourself....but I always ask people to at least have an open mind. The first time I saw it, it was the most shocking/revealing half a day of my entire shooting life. It also showed me that there was some prior anecdotal evidence to support it, but I never understood it at the time.

Over twenty years ago I was struggling with my offhand shooting for high power rifle matches. I was working hard on it in dry fire, but during one match I threw two or three 7s and 8s right off the bat, and got pissed. I simply wanted to get it over with so I just threw the rifle up, got a halfway decent sight picture and simply pressed through the trigger....a 10. I about fell over, but figured it was luck. I did it again...another 10. I continued doing the same thing and shot 10s and a 9 or two to finish the offhand portion. Prior to that, I was taking up the slack, getting a perfect sight picture and trying to smoothly restart the trigger press....it simply didn't work, even though I was quite experienced at the time. Now, prone with a sling...that's a different animal, and you can probably get away with it (or maybe do a better job) since it's nearly like a benchrest when done properly (and for some guns, better than a benchrest). When I saw our trigger graph device, and learned about the continuous press, I realized that all those years ago I learned the same thing, but didn't understand it/recognize it. R,

[lrf]

I'm a pretty new shooter myself, a couple steel matches and 5 or 6 uspsa matches under my belt now. I've learned that competition shooting is a whole different animal than static casual plinking at the range. That also makes it a whole hell of a lot more fun. I've had gun problems, made errors etc. and that can be frustrating, but I always try to remember that I'm paying to be there and I'm there to have fun even though it is a competitive sport. Every match so far has shown me things I need to work on, but there has been positive moments where I feel I HAVE learned and feel that breakthrough feeling. I want to be a great shooter and I love the sport so I think I will start hitting on all cylinders one day. Until then, I will have a blast losing, lol. You can't run around and fire a blaster just anywhere now can you?

[twikster]

You might try a .22 conversion unit for a while. If your practice scores are a lot better, then the problem is flinching, due to reaction to the blast and recoil of the centerfire ammo. You can "swiss load" for the auto, by loading your mags with your eyes shut, mixing in some dummy rds and noticing when you jerk (on the dud rds). Or you can use a revolver for a while, and use 1-2 empty cases in the cylinder. You can use very light reloads for a while, or you can go the other route, and use really hot stuff, and get used to excessive blast and recoil, then your match loads will seem "tame" by comparison. Also, many people can avoid flinching, but only in slow fire. Make them deliver the sort of speed repeat hits necessary in this sport, and they come apart. Taking 1-2 full seconds per shot is nothing. Getting repeat hits on the A zone, at 10 yds, in .16 second or less, that takes a lot of work, especially if doing so without the help of a compensator or red dot sight, and with full power loads.

Edited December 8, 2010 by twikster

[Crazy Scientist]

Thanks all for the good discussion and encouragement. I spent some time at the range last night for a function check on my beretta (which is now at 100%), and worked on the smooth trigger pull and simply watching the sites/target as the gun fired. WHile I will not make any grand claims, I did see marked improvement and was even able to move my shot around the target a bit.

I also setup some 1:1 time for next week with a recommended local instructor.

[Dwight Stearns]

We must not be talking about the same technique. What I teach I picked up from Burce Piatt years ago (he still teaches it) and so far out of the literal thousands I have taught (and God only knows the number Bruce trained), to my knowledge, the number we have screwed up is zero. What you say about shooters believing they stop but in reallity don't, is probably true but I would guess we are not talking about novice shooters here. New shooters usually have the urge to punch the trigger through as soon as their finger touches the trigger, not that is always bad, but they have not fired the rounds necessary to learn the timing of the sear release and watching the sights lift before compensating for recoil. They end up anticipating the recoil which causes the pulling of the shot low and toward their weak side. What I teach allows for as the shooter becomes better, the stop or hesitation decreases till it doesn't exist on shots other than ones where extreme accuracy is necessary. When the stop or hesitation is removed as the shooter improves, we have very much like what you talk about of the slow then harder for the shot. I find that novice shooters need to work into that technique. Walk then Run.

As far as the confirmation of the sight picture, this can be done in as little as 1/30 of a second. Not for new shooters but with time and practice they will get there. That sight confirmation, along with the importance of not blinking and accellerating the mind, begins the journey of learning to call the shots. Once they are doing that, the sky is the limit.

Finally as Gohuskers said, ya gotta have fun. Hitting the target is fun.

I'm certain we're talking about the same thing, but you're adding a lot more detail now. The problem is there are two problems that can lead to the low, left. I've seen piles of data...literally piles, on struggling shooters that fight the low, left. It's one of two things happening, and again, this is actual data on a precision device that measures and graphs the movement of the trigger, not the perception of the shooters, or the observation of the instructor.

Scenario one is that they start the press, hit the sear/resistance and stop the press, try to get the sights lined up just right, then press the trigger when the sights are aligned. That invariably leads to low, left, and it's worse the faster they try to go. Many of those people were taught exactly the way you describe, and while it may not be "wrong", there's a better way....skip the whole stopping part, since you're saying that later you're going to remove that. No sense teaching what you're later going to tell them not to do. We can show them actual proof that they can hit the center of the target without ever stopping the trigger press, and that sight picture (not sight alignment) isn't anywhere near as important as a smooth trigger press, so there really isn't much need to confirm it at the last second. In fact, it's that desire to confirm it that screws up so many people.

Scenario two is the people that anticipate the recoil, and simply line up the sights, then smash through the trigger, causing the low, left. Those folks are usually blinking, and don't have any idea of where the gun was pointed when it went off. That's a different ball of wax, with problems that need to be addressed before you even can consider worrying about trigger press technique, and sight alignment/sight picture.

Yeah, I know, you're not going to believe it....that's no different than any of the experts that have been on the system. I promise, if you come to MI, I'll set up the system and let you see for yourself....but I always ask people to at least have an open mind. The first time I saw it, it was the most shocking/revealing half a day of my entire shooting life. It also showed me that there was some prior anecdotal evidence to support it, but I never understood it at the time.

Over twenty years ago I was struggling with my offhand shooting for high power rifle matches. I was working hard on it in dry fire, but during one match I threw two or three 7s and 8s right off the bat, and got pissed. I simply wanted to get it over with so I just threw the rifle up, got a halfway decent sight picture and simply pressed through the trigger....a 10. I about fell over, but figured it was luck. I did it again...another 10. I continued doing the same thing and shot 10s and a 9 or two to finish the offhand portion. Prior to that, I was taking up the slack, getting a perfect sight picture and trying to smoothly restart the trigger press....it simply didn't work, even though I was quite experienced at the time. Now, prone with a sling...that's a different animal, and you can probably get away with it (or maybe do a better job) since it's nearly like a benchrest when done properly (and for some guns, better than a benchrest). When I saw our trigger graph device, and learned about the continuous press, I realized that all those years ago I learned the same thing, but didn't understand it/recognize it. R,

I'd love to come to MI sometime and shoot with you. I have always tried to think outside the box and look at new ideas and techniques. (I know a good idea when I steal it)

I'd like to add one more cause of the low left (right handed shooter) issue, especially for the new shooter. That's the shooter that sees that perfect sight picture and wants to "capture" it. In doing so they snatch the trigger and compensate for recoil that hasn't yet. I've had many shooters that needed the cure for the sight picture capture problem over the years. Most were cured when they were shown that their wobble zone was well within the target and they did not need to capture it. Just lett it happen.

The three senarios (your two and my addition) all ultimately come down to recoil anticipation and pre-ignition push. Other than the shooter learning not to blink, accellerating what the mind sees and then truely seeing the movement of the sights, it appears to me that the shooter just needs to fire the rounds. There is no magic pill. Any new ideas will be welcome.

Thanks

Dwight

[jaggy13]

haven't read all of the reply's but sounded like a flinch issue to me as well.

Have a shooting partner load up a magazine with a snap cap hidden inside.

You will get a serious wake up call when you flinch at no recoil.

Other than that, try doing a bill drill with a magazine or 2 then settle into some nice easy precision shots.

The bill drill with get you warmed up and get you used to the recoil.

I catch myself flinching all the time! Especially when I switch back to 45acp from 9mm.

I also love to practice with rimfire. I can put thousands of rounds down range practice draws and first shot on target for pennies a shot.

Good luck and have fun!

[Wild Gene]

Not reading all the answers, but I did the same thing with my SAA's. The advice given me from Gene Percy, aka Evil Roy (Randi Rogers coach and grandpa), was simply to follow through on my shots. Made all the difference, and even at speed it makes a difference.

Good luck,

WG

[colt22man]

Practice, practice, practice. 6 yrs. ago I was a new limited div. competitor(D class). I asked an old timer who is very experienced with uspsa competition what I needed to do. His answer was practice, practice, practice. 100,000 rounds later I'm the old timer the new shooters are asking what to do in order to improve. Time, dedication, understanding of equip. maybe even a video camera or ph. will help with improving your all around shooting ability. Good luck.