The tiny 1911

[twodownzero]

Have any of you owned a small 1911? There are a lot of them out there, and I know that the internet is full of horror stories about how unreliable they are.

I know this isn't a CCW website so I want to leave that out of the discussion. What this website is great for, though, is discussions about gunsmithing and reliability (Because competitors definitely know what it takes to keep something up to snuff) and that's what I'd like to focus on.

I know there's quite a bit of evidence to suggest that making the 1911 smaller makes it more prone to malfunctions. I also know from personal experience that making it into a 9mm or .40 is another way to invite malfunctions.

Despite this, I'm a glutton for punishment and I really have an itch for a 3 or 3.5", aluminum, 9mm 1911. Does anyone have any advice on this?

The market has many of these available, including the Springfield EMP, Kimber has a bunch, STI has the Escort and Shadow, and Colt has the Defender. None offer exactly what I want, so I'm actually considering building one from scratch.

Obviously I will be carrying it, but I might shoot a little single stack with it once in a while, just because it'd be cool to do so. And I suppose there's always IDPA.

[ParaGunner]

Does STI still make the VIP? That would be a cool carry gun.

[Corey]

i had a 3" springfield ( i think it was a springfield anyway) that I could not keep running. It would choke on a round about once a box, back when I was still shooting factory WWB ammo through it. got rid of it at a local gun show. Wouldnt mind trying one again, but I would need to hear some pretty good stories about ones reliability.

[h2osport]

I have a Springfield V10 ultra compact carry gun. Shoot it in a match about once a year. Have heard of reliability issues, but mine runs well with 200 gr swc, and 200gr montana gold fp.

Randy

[steel1212]

Does STI still make the VIP? That would be a cool carry gun.

I do, and it is by far the best carry gun I have ever owned. Its 13+1 of .40 fun. Light weight with the aluminum frame and has the best trigger design ever, JMB's! Super compact 1911s in .45 are a handfull, heavy, and don't have a lot of BBs. They are thin though and conceal very well. I just want more bullets and something that was lighter.

[jjanglin]

I carry an officr's model Caspian in 38 super , its really a nice little gun.

Pretty darn accurate with the cut down barrel. Put tapered sleeve on the barrel=it so its kinda like a bull

barrel.Fun to shoot.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[chirpy]

I carry a lightly modified Colt Lightweight Officers ACP in .45 (naturally). Not that difficult to shoot. Very reliable (100% with factory). Accurate as I want it. Shoot it in IDPA CDP sometimes and BUG also. It accounted for down 0 (in a BUG match) for me and another shooter who had never shot it before. Times were very respectable also. Want to try a SC 1911 in 9 but can't find one I can afford yet.

FWIW

Richard

[RIIID]

Be sure to checkout the Springfield EMP, it's a very well built gun. Some have had issues during break in, I haven't had any problems with the ones I've done. Springfield also has a micro .45 if that's the caliber you want.

Rich

[LexTalionis]

I have an EMP as my carry gun. Initially, I had to send it to Springfield to have it tweaked after break-in, and I've since had to send it in when my extractor broke. But Springfield's customer service is the absolute best! I was never without my gun for more than 2 weeks, and it was all free. They took care of shipping and everything, even returned the gun right to my front door. The EMP is an excellent little pistol that sure beats out any of the other small 9mm's I've tried.

[Duane Thomas]

I have tested an STI VIP 9mm for an article. It's a fairly awesome gun though I think it might be a bit larger than you're looking for with it's 4" barrel. My sample gun was totally reliable. Come to that, both the Kimber Aegis and Ultra CDP 9mms I've tested have also been totally reliable, and more accurate than we have any right to expect from such small, light, concealment oriented auto pistols.. These are the sort of 3" barreled, aluminum framed compacts you have in mind.

The one Springfield EMP I've seen tested had the firing pin lock freeze, leading to failures to fire, after two shots - this with a brand-new, out-of-the-box gun. Admittedly this was only one gun, but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth where the EMP is concerned.

[Seth]

I had a Springfield 3" Loaded model. Bought it brand new, put about 1500 rounds through it... and about 2500 miles back and forth to Springfield twice.

Worthless little gun. It couldn't get thru a whole magazine one time. I tried a stack of mags, a ton of followers, new springs, extractors, etc... Springfield tried to loosen the chamber, polish the feed ramp, replace the guide rod and springs, and they couldn't make it work either.

I'm glad to see they have had better luck with the EMP. I replaced it with a LCP and an LCR. Both run 100%.

[Airedale]

I have an STI Rogue, 3" 9mm that I carry regularly. It has a ton of ammo through it and has never failed to go bang.

I bought a used STI Escort in .45ACP(found on this forum)that arrived yesterday. Walked out to the back yard I mean firing range and burned 3 mags through it (ball and jhp) and it ran without problems. It has a lightweight frame and weighs about a popcorn fart. Recoil seemed no more than any other 1911.

I also sometimes carry a Colt XSE commander in .38 Super. It has a bobtail msh and conceals well.

All are accurate and fun to shoot.

Dave

[JFlowers]

I have an original Detonics Combat Master. Originally it was unreliable, jamming about 1 in 12 rounds. A diet of one and only one type of ammo and some tuning to that ammo resolved the issues. I find the small 45s to be a bit of a handful on the range, but much easier to carry than a fullsize 1911.

[bbbean]

I used to have a Para Nitehawg. I liked the idea of 10 rds of .45 in a very compact package, but it took a year of sending it back and forth between Para and my local smith to get it to run reliably. When I finally got it reliable, I realized that full power .45 in a gun that small was a formula for alpha mike, and wasn't all that fun to shoot.

So I traded it for a broken in EMP in 9mm and haven't looked back. Had my smith give it a fluff and buff and it's been reliable, accurate, and as much fun to shoot as my full size 1911s. I haven't grouped it from a rest, but Bill Drills at 15 yards fit a softball sized circle, and I can reliably ring the 12" plate at 50 yards - more than accurate enough for a carry gun. If I had enough mags for it, I'd have no problem using it as a backup gun for SS minor or Lim 10 minor.

Edited October 21, 2010 by bbbean

[latewatch]

I carried a Colt Officer's Model for years with no problems. My last 1911 carry gun was an Officer's Model frame with a Commander length slide. That gun was really sweet and was my favorite carry .45 ever. I may have to build another one in a couple of years when I can carry what I want again.....

[ah1356]

My wife and I both carry 9mm STI Escorts. In roughly 1,000 total rounds (minor PF reloads, factory ball and JHP, etc.) mine has never had a failure of any kind and hers has choked maybe once. My wife had a Kimber Ultra Aegis first. Then she fired my Escort once and claimed it, so we sold the Kimber to buy another Escort. There was nothing in particular wrong with the Kimber, she just preferred my STI.

[EkuJustice]

The big thing to getting the small 1911s to gun is good mags and good springs. There isnt much clearence from the back of the mag to where to slide bottoms out so if the mag spring is weak, the round isnt up in time to get picked up

[twodownzero]

I'm glad to see that so many have had good luck with them. I wonder why the market isn't more saturated with the smaller 1911s if they're reliable.

I am probably going to buy a Springfield EMP at this point. I was going to build a gun, but it turns out even with my discounts, I can't really build a gun for what I can buy one for from Springfield--and the EMP has a lifetime warranty.

[fastarget]

Look at a Kahr, I carry a PM45 on a daily basis IWB, good ammo = no issues what-so-ever and surprisingly accurate.....

did I also say lightweight...

[twodownzero]

I'm not interested in any double action guns, or I'd look at the Kahr.

[broadus123]

I have a kimber ultra cdp and an ultra carry both run great no issues with either

[Powder Finger]

I've got a Detonics Mark7 38Super, it runs well but a little obnoxious and loud.

[fastarget]

I'm not interested in any double action guns, or I'd look at the Kahr.

Yes I know, I wish you could try one however, the triggers are nice, and I do not have to carry it locked and cocked.

I used to carry a sig 226 SAS .40, but since this one is lighter It seems my preference now. The suggestion of the kimber CDP is excellent as well.

[JeffWard]

In my limited experience, and extensive research.... 3" 45s are horrible, but 3" 9s and 40s are fine.

Something to do with the dynamics of recoil spring, slide weight, cycle time, dwell, etc... that a pro gunsmith could likely explain through the physics... makes the 45 unreliable under 4".

Your mileage may vary, but reading the posts here... 45s suck, the 9s and 40s run like champs!

Jeff

[Modoc]

I started out with a Charles Daly and traded it up to a used Kimber Ultra Cary. My Kimber has been very reliable with minor handloads and factory rounds. In fact I have shot it enough that it had to have a full spring overhaul . It handles almost as well as my full sized 1911. My wife bought a Springfield EMP and has had good success with it.