Major or minor PF

[jrbet83]

Minor really doesn't give up as much as some people like to think....especially if your a decent to good shooter and scoring 80%+ of your hits in the A zone. Not to mention minor is going to be a bit quicker.

[bluenite]

Steel targets don’t acknowledge major.

On stages with a lot of steel minor is king.

Minor only sucks on paper.

Leonard

[Thomas H]

Minor really doesn't give up as much as some people like to think....especially if your a decent to good shooter and scoring 80%+ of your hits in the A zone. Not to mention minor is going to be a bit quicker.

The problem is that most people _aren't_ scoring 80%+ of their hits in the A zone--and the ones that do, find that shooting major isn't a problem at all, speed-wise, so they take advantage of the scoring increase.

Minor is nice as it is cheaper, with less recoil---and yet, while indeed there are a couple of people out there who can win shooting Limited Minor (or something similar), chances are, you aren't one of them.

I'll note that *I'm* certainly not one of them either.

And the few people who ARE----shoot major because then they can do even better in matches.

Last year at Limited Nats, only two people scored in the top 100 shooting minor---and the best only reached 44th. At other Nats in 2010, Mike Hughes shot L-10 minor, and only got 21st---and yet in Production, got 7th (with everyone minor, against many of the same top people).

That scoring difference is important. Yes, if recoil is a problem for you, minor might be the way to go. (So shoot Production, where it doesn't hurt you!)

[ima45dv8]

Minor really doesn't give up as much as some people like to think....especially if your a decent to good shooter and scoring 80%+ of your hits in the A zone. Not to mention minor is going to be a bit quicker.

The problem is that most people _aren't_ scoring 80%+ of their hits in the A zone--and the ones that do, find that shooting major isn't a problem at all, speed-wise, so they take advantage of the scoring increase.

Minor is nice as it is cheaper, with less recoil---and yet, while indeed there are a couple of people out there who can win shooting Limited Minor (or something similar), chances are, you aren't one of them.

I'll note that *I'm* certainly not one of them either.

And the few people who ARE----shoot major because then they can do even better in matches.

Last year at Limited Nats, only two people scored in the top 100 shooting minor---and the best only reached 44th. At other Nats in 2010, Mike Hughes shot L-10 minor, and only got 21st---and yet in Production, got 7th (with everyone minor, against many of the same top people).

That scoring difference is important. Yes, if recoil is a problem for you, minor might be the way to go. (So shoot Production, where it doesn't hurt you!)

Yeah.

Minot hurts if you ain't one of the anointed few who can overcome the scoring differential.

Of course, all A's = all A's, = 5points. Anything less doesn't count for you, it counts against you.

Roll the dice...take your chances.

[Singlestack]

Consider this:

I could kick my own ass shooting major against minor. In other words, the guy that is at the same skill level as you will win.

[Corey]

Consider this:

I could kick my own ass shooting major against minor. In other words, the guy that is at the same skill level as you will win.

I was going to say almost the exact same quote. Unless its an all steel stage (you don't see those very often and if so its only one stage out 5 or 6 for a match) why not take advantage of major scoring?

[dskinsler83]

Ok so I know this doesn't go along with the topic bit I was told that a lighter spring rate is better than heavy even in major 40

[Flexmoney]

Minor really doesn't give up as much as some people like to think....especially if your a decent to good shooter and scoring 80%+ of your hits in the A zone. Not to mention minor is going to be a bit quicker.

I disagree.

I've shot minor a bunch over the years. (I might be the first guy on here to phrase "minor sucks" )

I think it is fine for classifiers, as to do well you need to be shooting Alphas anyway, but you lose plenty of score by shooting minor in matches.

Points down are double.

[pjb45]

Go to your most recent match scores. Recalculate your results using minor scoring, then compare your new standing to your old standing. It is really that simple to give you an idea of how many places you would have given up.

Next, estimate the amount of time you would have saved shooting minor. Just of use 10% reduction in time. Recalculate the previous results using 10% less time. Then compare your position.

Excel is a wonderful tool for actually modeling your theories.

[Dan Burwell]

Last year at Limited Nats, only two people scored in the top 100 shooting minor---and the best only reached 44th. At other Nats in 2010, Mike Hughes shot L-10 minor, and only got 21st---and yet in Production, got 7th (with everyone minor, against many of the same top people).

At the 2010 nats I was the next guy down shooting minor 26th in the L-10 and 21st in Production, same gun same ammo. Had a slightly better performance in the L-10 match, but I went back and ran my scores as though I had been shooting major, found that is would have had added 2% to my score which would have moved up exactly 4 spots. I really thought by shooting minor I was giving up a lot at that particular match due to all the targets that just didn't have much A to shoot at. So when I got back and ran the numbers I was really suprised to see how little it actually impacted my final score.

FWIW, I thought the L-10 match was tougher to place in as there was every good limited shooter and every good production shooter all getting ready for the next match. So when we got to production we were only shooting against half the competition.

So, for once I will go against Flex... Minor Doesn't Suck, lack of accuracy however does.

[Singlestack]

Merged with existing thread.

[malagamarksman]

There is a Spanish guy called Angel who shoots in our IPSC matches. He is in his late sixties and shoots a 9mm SVI in standard division.

He isn't quick on his feet for obvious reasons and because he is retired, as a hobby he casts his own gas checked lead bullets and "rolls his own" 9mm rounds.

He is a JOY to watch. He takes his time very deliberately and EVERY SINGLE HIT is an "A" zone.

He NEVER comes last.................EVER, Normally about half way down the result sheet.

Which is more than can be said for some of the "whizz kids" shooting .40 S+W major in the same type of pistol.

By all means try MAJOR loads but shooting just for sheer enjoyment there is a lot to be said for MINOR.

Edited June 6, 2011 by malagamarksman

[jrbet83]

Is major an advantage...absolutely. I certainly wouldn't go out and build a Limited minor gun, but the truth is if you can't compete with minor, shooting major ain't going to do a damn thing for you. Minor does give up points to major and major will give up speed to minor (although the very slight advantage in speed won't make up for the advantage of the extra points). How much minor gives up is the question? In my opinion not as much as some like to make others think. I'd estimate 2-5% in most cases when talking about above average shooters. Is that enough to worry about....uh Yes, absolutely. That's why all the big boys shoot major, because they're looking for every point and every tenth. But at the same time those same big boys, would compete using minor as well....trust me it isn't the major that's putting them over the top.

Since "minor sucks" is already taken. I'm putting my name on "if you can't compete using minor, shooting major ain't going to do a damn thing for you"

[Chills1994]

At my local match I shot limited minor. When the results first got emailed out, I was accidentally scored as major. In the first combined NOT official results, I was 7th out of 37 at 66.791% . I got the correction to minor done and when the results got emailed out again with me as minor, I ended up 9th out of 37 at 63.615%. Maybe one of these days I wil take a closer look at the two different stage results to see what made the biggest impact on my results dropping.

[Flexmoney]

Next, estimate the amount of time you would have saved shooting minor. Just of use 10% reduction in time. Recalculate the previous results using 10% less time. Then compare your position.

The only place I see a time savings is when people talk about it, not on the range. It sure won't be 10%. Most of what we do that eats time is not shooting. And, I could only expect a minimal times savings on splits.

But, that doesn't materialize... since when we shoot Minor, we have to tighten up and go for better points. That means we end up shooting slower.

The only possible time saving that I have seen is when shooting Limited...and that comes from the advantage of having a few extra rounds in the magazines with 9mm vs. 40

[Flexmoney]

Last year at Limited Nats, only two people scored in the top 100 shooting minor---and the best only reached 44th. At other Nats in 2010, Mike Hughes shot L-10 minor, and only got 21st---and yet in Production, got 7th (with everyone minor, against many of the same top people).

At the 2010 nats I was the next guy down shooting minor 26th in the L-10 and 21st in Production, same gun same ammo. Had a slightly better performance in the L-10 match, but I went back and ran my scores as though I had been shooting major, found that is would have had added 2% to my score which would have moved up exactly 4 spots. I really thought by shooting minor I was giving up a lot at that particular match due to all the targets that just didn't have much A to shoot at. So when I got back and ran the numbers I was really suprised to see how little it actually impacted my final score.

FWIW, I thought the L-10 match was tougher to place in as there was every good limited shooter and every good production shooter all getting ready for the next match. So when we got to production we were only shooting against half the competition.

So, for once I will go against Flex... Minor Doesn't Suck, lack of accuracy however does.

Sounds like you did some of that aiming stuff.