Major or minor PF

[buckaroo45]

I'm a 64 year old with bad hands and eyes slowly going away so lower speed and split times aren't on my radar. I shoot for the sheer love of guns, whatever they are. I'm working up loads for a new to me Open 9mm Glock 17 and I got to wondering .... if you shoot a minor PF load and can get 90-95% of the points what is the advantage of shooting a major PF? Keeping in mind that speed isn't a choice, am I not as well off using a low recoil load and putting more attention on scoring A's?

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Ah that I were young enough to have focus now that I see the use of it. - Me

[ShooterSteve]

From what I'm reading, you are doing this to have fun, and while we are all competitive to a degree, there are a few of us who are reasonable about it. You seem to be one of those. I shoot major for the points, but if you can shoot minor with 90% points, I'd say do it if it is more comfortable and fun for you. If you build a harsh shooting type major gun, but you don't enjoy shooting it, what's the point? Build a minor gun and shoot to your hearts content.

[rangedog]

Nothing wrong with shooting minor.Guys shoot major because at the end of a match only a handful of points will generally separate a large number of shooters.A top shooter will shoot at major pf just as fast as minor, so the odd extra point here and there shooting major will make a fair difference to where a top shooter will finish up.

Minor is pleasant to shoot, I'd probably go that way...good luck with it

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: On an Open pistol it shoots softer at major power factors than a limited pistol with light bullets in 40. Also a STI 2011 based pistol shoots softer than a Glock 17 with a comp. I have had both and sold the Glock 17 off since the STI shoots softer and has a better trigger for me. If you shoot "A's" for the whole match you won't see any difference but if you get the odd "D" or a miss it really hurts your score. I noticed you are mostly shooting for the fun and getting out of the house so I would shoot minor first and see how that works for you. If you are good with it then stop there. If you are not then up the powder charge and shoot major to see if that works for you. Either way it's fun Thanks, Eric

[G-ManBart]

If you can come up with a combination that lets you shoot Major comfortably, do it. If not, then Minor is reasonable. You will definitely see a difference in the points, but that only matters if you're trying to beat other shooters.

If you can find a way to try someone's heavier gun shooting Major, that might be another solution...something like a Caspian Hi-cap frame or full-size S_I with a heavy magwell, heavy guide rod etc. In a heavy gun, even Major isn't unpleasant because the comp softens things up considerably. R,

[lcs]

I'm a 64 year old with bad hands and eyes slowly going away so lower speed and split times aren't on my radar. I shoot for the sheer love of guns, whatever they are. I'm working up loads for a new to me Open 9mm Glock 17 and I got to wondering .... if you shoot a minor PF load and can get 90-95% of the points what is the advantage of shooting a major PF? Keeping in mind that speed isn't a choice, am I not as well off using a low recoil load and putting more attention on scoring A's?

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Ah that I were young enough to have focus now that I see the use of it. - Me

If you have a comp on your g17 you will need to load close to major just to get the gun to function 100% of the time(unless you use a lighter recoil spring). If you are using a comp, loading to major should feel softer than some 115 stock ammo.

Load up 100 major rounds and see how you fair. A lot of load data in these threads to get you close. Major would be the way to go.

[JThompson]

Also, if you are just shooting for the joy of it there is no need to build a special gun where you have to worry about a light load. You can just grab a limited/production gun with some extended mags and shoot Open Minor and drop a C-More on it. That way you can take a gun you know runs at minor and not do a damn thing except bolt on a sight. As far as that goes, you can take anything you have laying around and drop a C-More or slide mounted optic on it and have fun!

No need to over think or overspend if you just want to have fun......

JT

Edited September 29, 2010 by JThompson

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm a 64 year old with bad hands and eyes slowly going away so lower speed and split times aren't on my radar. I shoot for the sheer love of guns, whatever they are. I'm working up loads for a new to me Open 9mm Glock 17 and I got to wondering .... if you shoot a minor PF load and can get 90-95% of the points what is the advantage of shooting a major PF? Keeping in mind that speed isn't a choice, am I not as well off using a low recoil load and putting more attention on scoring A's?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ah that I were young enough to have focus now that I see the use of it. - Me

Buckaroo, I'm 65 and just started shooting a TruBor

9mm three years ago.

At first I was using factory Remington green box

115 grain - didn't want to reload.

After a few months I tried some major loads (I

bought them from a semi-pro reloader) and didn't

see any difference in the recoil. They sound

louder (but not much if you're muffed up well).

But the extra points on my score helped this old

duffer (I'm only a B Open shooter and don't have

a chance in Hades of getting to A). Matter of

fact, I'm still trying to get some B match scores.

Try the minor loads, and if you get a chance,

try a mag full of major loads - see if they're

"too much" for YOU. I doubt you'll notice the

difference, except for the higher scores.

And shooting OPEN does for us old guys what

Viagra does:) An awful lot of fun. Good luck.

Jack

[Jman]

And shooting OPEN does for us old guys what

Viagra does:)

Jack,

Remember.

Tripods are considered an unfair competitive advantage.

Jim

[Hi-Power Jack]

And shooting OPEN does for us old guys what

Viagra does:)

Jack,

Remember.

Tripods are considered an unfair competitive advantage.

Jim

LOL. According to Rule 9.45.36, ALL is legal

in Love and War (unfortunately, not IPSC:(

[buckaroo45]

I appreciate all the observations. I shoot steel guns for SS (a 1911), Limited (Tanfo 40), and Revo (Smith 625 45 ACP), all major PF, and do reasonably - B/C - but the plastic G17 is difficult for me to control w/ the recommended loads that came with it, 7 gr N350 w/ a Zero 124 JHP. The load bucks pretty hard and the dot doesn't settle back on the A at all for me. Ergo my question about major / minor. Truly, the only reason I got the G17 (knowing they have something of a reputation of not running 100% at major PF) is that the deal was too good to pass up. A stock M&P 45 and a few hundred $$ for EVERYTHING necessary (all name stuff) to go Open class so I figgered why not give it a shot - pun intended. After considering your comments, I think the primary consideration is whether I can get the comp to work for me. Is there a snow balls' chance in hell of getting useful gas with a minor load? I'm guessing probably not but if you have a thought I'm all ears. Meantime I'm continueing my load research using HS6 and MG 124 JHP's. I'm at 8 gr and the dot is still bouncing like a rubber ball. Don't tell me to hang on harder. I've got a neuropathy problem with my hands and have little sensation how tight I'm hanging on. I'm guessing the grip is way too tight already as I'm always concerned of losing control of the gun.

Getting old ain't for sissies ........................

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Ah that I were young enough to have focus now that I see the use of it. - Me

[Hi-Power Jack]

I think the primary consideration is whether I can get the comp to work for me. Is there a snow balls' chance in hell of getting useful gas with a minor load? I'm guessing probably not but if you have a thought I'm all ears. Meantime I'm continueing my load research using HS6 and MG 124 JHP's. I'm at 8 gr and the dot is still bouncing like a rubber ball. ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ah that I were young enough to have focus now that I see the use of it. - Me

Try factory 9mm ammo in it and see if that helps. Doubt it will feel

much different than the 8 gr HS6. Don't think the comp is doing much,

but it doesn't have to with the minor loads. It's pretty soft.

Are you holding the gun the same way, and same stance, as with your

.45? Dot shouldn't bounce too much if you're holding it like a .45.

I'm not familiar with a comped Glock - but that's a pretty light gun

isn't it? May STI TruBor is about 43 ounces. Not sure how effective

your Glock comp is either - from what I've been reading lately, my

TruBor comp may not be real effective either, but it might be more

effective than your Glock comp. You'll probably hear more about that

from people who have shot both Glocks and STI's comped.

Sorry about the neuropathy - sounds like a pain in the heinie. Yeah,

getting old isn't much fun.

[Bob DuBois]

I'm an old guy also, but still enjoying shooting pistols. Would also recommend a heavier 2011 format pistol. Easier trigger control. Been shooting IDPA with a 1911 in 9mm and having fun with it. Broke out my old open shooter a few weeks ago and had a great time with it. That dot sight is great for old eyes. At our age we're not going to win the event, just there to have a good time.

Shoot minor, enjoy the day, it's only for your name on a spread sheet.

[Braxton1]

...but if you get the odd "D" or a miss it really hurts your score.

Yep, a Minor "D" hurts, but a "Miss" is a "Miss and -15 points in either Power Factor.

To help you settle the Major vs. Minor debate, let's shoot a stage:

If you shoot an El Presidente, for example, get 9 A's, 2 C's, and 1 D in say 7.00 seconds, your Hit Factors will be:

Major: 8.000 Minor: 7.571

I shoot the stage a little sloppier, but a hair faster: 6 A's, 4 C's and 2 D's in 6.50 seconds. My Hit Factors are: Major 8.000; Minor 6.769

Let's say that the top shooter shoots the same exercise with 3 C's in 5-flat. His Hit Factor would be 11.4000.

Converting this over to Stage Points, he would get 60.000 (or 100%)

If shooting Major, I'd get 42.105 Stage Points. Minor would only give me 35.626 points (a difference of almost 6.5 match points).

Shooting Major, you'd have 42.105 Match Points. In Minor, you'd be at 39.847 (a diffence of just over 2.25 Match Points).

As you can see, accuracy is the key when shooting Minor....

[Singlestack]

Shooting minor, 3 D's = 1 Mike. With a penalty.

[Duke Nukem]

Every Minor hit outside the A zone is worth 20% less than a corresponding Major hit outside the A zone.

[buckaroo45]

OK, I'm down the road working on a major load that doesn't bounce like a pole dancers' chest. If I can't figger out a load I can control, it's back to my SS and 625. Thanks to all for the input.

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Chaos, panic, and disorder. My work here is done.

[diehli]

OK, I'm down the road working on a major load that doesn't bounce like a pole dancers' chest.

That sentence makes me conflicted. Great imagery, but kinda disparaging to boobs. Boobs (on women) are good (as long as they're where they're supposed to be), mmkay?

[buckaroo45]

Move along ...... nothing else to see here

[dskinsler83]

Why not shoot minor over major????

[Jman]

Minor sucks.

[dskinsler83]

What is the score difference

[Jman]

Scoring "cliffnotes"

http://tinymicros.com/wiki/USPSA_Scoring

[JimmyZip]

Thanks Jman!

[digby7]

so unless youre neck and neck for the top 3 spots for prize money or X, why not shoot minor?

For those of us that dont reload - minor:

- is cheaper

- encourages/forces you to shoot for A's instead of the spray and pray mentality

i shoot L10 minor and I like it, will probably move to limited minor when I can decide on something.